BIAB Brewing (with pics)

[mrgstiffler]

Hate to ask, but without paging through all 69 pages of posts, could someone please repost the formula to derive how much water should be added to the kettle based on the amount of grain being used, evaporation, length of boil, etc.?

I wish you could search the thread but can't figure out how. I want to do my first BIAB this Friday - looking forward to it!

Great info, all...

I have a web-based tool in my signature that does all the calculations for you. See if it works for what you need.

 

[scottvin]

Lots of variables here that are going to be particular to your setup (evap rate and how hard/if you squeeze the bag).

I just mash at 1.5 qt per pound and then add sparge water up to 7 gallons (6 gal batch) over the top of my bag as it sits on a grate draining into my kettle. It's pretty simple. Just plan for boiling off about a gallon over a sixty minute boil to hit your total wort volume.

Does this work well? I currently have a recipe that is too large for mashing in my bk and am trying to figure out how to succeed. . Do you pour very slowly?

 

[flushdrew42]

i love BIAB brewing, but have had inconsistent efficiencies.

here's my process. 1.5 gallon batches. small grain bills.

i use a 2 gallon kettle, clip the bag to the top. i use a preheated cooler (48qt) with hot water in it to mash in. (so grain in bag, bag in kettle, kettle in cooler) for a 75 minute mash. then sparge by rinsing grains with 170* water through bag over kettle.
60 min boil, etc.

my first batch was an APA, 2.75lbs of grains, 155*mash, ended with 1.048 wort.
second batch was a wheat beer, 3lbs grain, 152* mash, 1.044 wort
both spot on from what Qbrew tells me it should be.
next was an irish stout - 2.8lbs of grains (est OG 1.048) 152*mash - wort was 1.036
4th brew - porter - 3lbs grain (est OG 1.051) - 155*mash, 1.050 wort.
5th brew - same porter yesterday - same grist, same mash - 1.030 wort... (added DME to raise OG)...

thoughts? i'm pretty retentive about my process. my cooler is preheated to 160. my strike water is 8* higher than my mash temp, and the #'s hit spot on almost every time.

what do you think my issues are?
inconsistent crush?
brewgremlins?

 

[Mysticmead]

i love BIAB brewing, but have had inconsistent efficiencies.

here's my process. 1.5 gallon batches. small grain bills.

i use a 2 gallon kettle, clip the bag to the top. i use a preheated cooler (48qt) with hot water in it to mash in. (so grain in bag, bag in kettle, kettle in cooler) for a 75 minute mash. then sparge by rinsing grains with 170* water through bag over kettle.
60 min boil, etc.

my first batch was an APA, 2.75lbs of grains, 155*mash, ended with 1.048 wort.
second batch was a wheat beer, 3lbs grain, 152* mash, 1.044 wort
both spot on from what Qbrew tells me it should be.
next was an irish stout - 2.8lbs of grains (est OG 1.048) 152*mash - wort was 1.036
4th brew - porter - 3lbs grain (est OG 1.051) - 155*mash, 1.050 wort.
5th brew - same porter yesterday - same grist, same mash - 1.030 wort... (added DME to raise OG)...

thoughts? i'm pretty retentive about my process. my cooler is preheated to 160. my strike water is 8* higher than my mash temp, and the #'s hit spot on almost every time.

what do you think my issues are?
inconsistent crush?
brewgremlins?

first thing to look at is the crush. with BIAB crush the hell out of those grains. If you get your grains crushed for you, have them double crush the grains.

second, how are you measuring your volume? being off in volume can change the OG

 

[mrgstiffler]

i love BIAB brewing, but have had inconsistent efficiencies.

here's my process. 1.5 gallon batches. small grain bills.

i use a 2 gallon kettle, clip the bag to the top. i use a preheated cooler (48qt) with hot water in it to mash in. (so grain in bag, bag in kettle, kettle in cooler) for a 75 minute mash. then sparge by rinsing grains with 170* water through bag over kettle.
60 min boil, etc.

my first batch was an APA, 2.75lbs of grains, 155*mash, ended with 1.048 wort.
second batch was a wheat beer, 3lbs grain, 152* mash, 1.044 wort
both spot on from what Qbrew tells me it should be.
next was an irish stout - 2.8lbs of grains (est OG 1.048) 152*mash - wort was 1.036
4th brew - porter - 3lbs grain (est OG 1.051) - 155*mash, 1.050 wort.
5th brew - same porter yesterday - same grist, same mash - 1.030 wort... (added DME to raise OG)...

thoughts? i'm pretty retentive about my process. my cooler is preheated to 160. my strike water is 8* higher than my mash temp, and the #'s hit spot on almost every time.

what do you think my issues are?
inconsistent crush?
brewgremlins?

I've found that stirring for different lengths of time can change your efficiency quite a bit. I've done batches with little to no stirring and gotten 60%, then I've done the same batches with 1-2 minutes of stirring at the start and 1-2 minutes after 60 minutes and gotten 85%.

 

[flushdrew42]

maybe stirring might be the situation, i will stir more with my next batch.

as far as volume i have graduations on my kettle, and i premeasure all my water. i end with 1.5gallons every time. i build my recipes in Qbrew with the batch size preentered.

 

[JimTheHick]

Does this work well? I currently have a recipe that is too large for mashing in my bk and am trying to figure out how to succeed. . Do you pour very slowly?

Works great. I pull the bag out and twist it so it's kind of compacting the grain a bit, then I place it on a metal grate that sits nicely across the kettle. Next take your fist and make an indentation in the very top once it cools and drains a bit. Now you can pour your sparge water into this 'valley'. The rate to pour is metered by slowing it down when you see clear water running down the outside of the bag. I use two gallons of water heated to 150-170 on the stove most of the time. It increases efficiency and allows me to blab in an 8 gallon kettle that would overflow otherwise. I mash at 1.5qt/lb.

 

[dallasdb]

Next take your fist and make an indentation in the very top once it cools and drains a bit. Now you can pour your sparge water into this 'valley'.

I love BIAB but I haven't found a "squeeze" or indentation method that doesn't kill your hands from the heat.

Do you use gloves at all?

I've tried multiple gloves, yellow kitchen gloves seem to do okay but still get really hot.

Anyone have a good glove or method to recommend?

 

[bartbert]

I have a five gallon round Igloo cooler and a stainless steel colander that sits on top of the cooler. I place the bag in the colander and let gravity do its thing for a few minutes. Then I use a cast iron pot lid placed on top of the bag to assist with squeezing. With the cooler sitting on the floor, I can simply use my body weight to press down on the pot lid and squeeze out the wort. I still have to put a hot pot holder over the lid to protect my hands because the cast iron pot lid transfers the heat from the grains quickly.

 

[scottvin]

Blichmann gloves are what you need. They work great!

 

[JimTheHick]

I love BIAB but I haven't found a "squeeze" or indentation method that doesn't kill your hands from the heat.

Do you use gloves at all?

I've tried multiple gloves, yellow kitchen gloves seem to do okay but still get really hot.

Anyone have a good glove or method to recommend?

No gloves. I tie a knot in the top and before grabbing it to pull the bag out I flop it over the edge of the kettle out of the mash so it cools off. Then after lifting the bag out it sits on the grate for about 3 minutes before the 'punch'. All water has drained from the top so it's not hot.

Do my hands get hot, sure. But 150F water isn't too bad in very brief encounters! I also use the top of a pot to compress the bag while it sits on the grate. Works awesome, just don't bend it.

I always keep a pair of leather work gloves around. You can use those in a pinch on the bag, but mostly they are for grabbing hot metal.

 

[IrregularPulse]

You electric guys. I'm planning for a EBIAB setup soon. I will be using a pump to recirc anyway for chilling through my plate chiller. Where are you locating your temp probes to maintain an accurate mash temp? My plan is to use a T in a bulkhead with a 4$ or 6" temp probe going directly into the kettle and the ball valve off at a 90°. The wort will pass over the probe on it's way out the valve to the pump and on to the recirc port on top of the kettle. Will this give me an accurate representation of what my mash can expect to even out at? Basically, If I'm seeing 155 at the Ball valve, the temps in the fittings and and tubing should equalize with the grain bed, no? I'll probably start recirculating once my water it is with 10-20 of my mash temp to go ahead and get the loop equalized. Most likely it would run through my plate chiller at this point too. Not with the chilling water on of course, but to avoid hose changes. That way, from start to finish, Id have one hose change with the chiller output going from the kettle recirc to the fermenter.

 

[rudy0498]

You electric guys. I'm planning for a EBIAB setup soon. I will be using a pump to recirc anyway for chilling through my plate chiller. Where are you locating your temp probes to maintain an accurate mash temp? My plan is to use a T in a bulkhead with a 4$ or 6" temp probe going directly into the kettle and the ball valve off at a 90°. The wort will pass over the probe on it's way out the valve to the pump and on to the recirc port on top of the kettle. Will this give me an accurate representation of what my mash can expect to even out at? Basically, If I'm seeing 155 at the Ball valve, the temps in the fittings and and tubing should equalize with the grain bed, no? I'll probably start recirculating once my water it is with 10-20 of my mash temp to go ahead and get the loop equalized. Most likely it would run through my plate chiller at this point too. Not with the chilling water on of course, but to avoid hose changes. That way, from start to finish, Id have one hose change with the chiller output going from the kettle recirc to the fermenter.

I'm not sure how well that would work if you aren't using an external heating source. If your only heat source is inside the pot, you would just lose heat during the recirculation and dump colder water on the top of your mash than you have at the bottom. It could help when raising the mash temp to mash out, but I think it would be hard to stablize the mash that way.

After fighting with a HERMS setup before going BIAB, I had no desire to make it more complicated than it needed to be. Once I stabilize my mash temp, I just let it rest and I set my PID to somewhere between 2-5% in manual mode to compensate for any heat loss. I've been pretty happy with the results.

Just food for thought. I'm definitely no expert. I'd be interested to hear how this works for you.

 

[IrregularPulse]

I'm not sure how well that would work if you aren't using an external heating source. If your only heat source is inside the pot, you would just lose heat during the recirculation and dump colder water on the top of your mash than you have at the bottom. It could help when raising the mash temp to mash out, but I think it would be hard to stablize the mash that way.

After fighting with a HERMS setup before going BIAB, I had no desire to make it more complicated than it needed to be. Once I stabilize my mash temp, I just let it rest and I set my PID to somewhere between 2-5% in manual mode to compensate for any heat loss. I've been pretty happy with the results.

Just food for thought. I'm definitely no expert. I'd be interested to hear how this works for you.

And you take readings through various spots in your mash to confirm it's consistent throughout the mash? I don't see how just setting somewhere between 2-5% would give you the precision control available through PID control. I would think that you'd develop a learned temperature drop vs what's read on the way out of the kettle and what that translates to in the mash. It should be a consistent temp drop no? SO if you know you lost 3-4 degrees, you set your PID to 3-4 degrees of desired Mash temp.
I don't see how heating internally would have any different affect over heating outside the pot.

 

[rudy0498]

And you take readings through various spots in your mash to confirm it's consistent throughout the mash? I don't see how just setting somewhere between 2-5% would give you the precision control available through PID control. I would think that you'd develop a learned temperature drop vs what's read on the way out of the kettle and what that translates to in the mash. It should be a consistent temp drop no? SO if you know you lost 3-4 degrees, you set your PID to 3-4 degrees of desired Mash temp.
I don't see how heating internally would have any different affect over heating outside the pot.

Is isn't precise, but it is simple. There will still be some stratification, but the way you are describing what you want to do is creates its own form of stratification.

For example, your target mash temperature is 150 deg. Let's say you have 2 deg. of heat loss from recirculating through your tubing/pump etc. So you have to set your PID to heat the bottom of your mash (where you pull the wort from to recirculate) to 152 deg. in order for it to reenter the mash at 150 deg. Regardless of where you put your temp probe, this is going to happen. So your best case scenario is the you have 2 degrees of stratification from the bottom of your mash to the top.

The principles of herms and rims are able to compensate for the heat loss because they are heating the recirculated wort without directly heating the body of the mash at the same time. If your heating element is inside the pot you are mashing in, you can't do one without the other.

 

[Euphist]

I love BIAB but I haven't found a "squeeze" or indentation method that doesn't kill your hands from the heat.

Do you use gloves at all?

I've tried multiple gloves, yellow kitchen gloves seem to do okay but still get really hot.

Anyone have a good glove or method to recommend?

This works great for me.

 

[stux]

Blichmann gloves are what you need. They work great!

+1

I use my Blichmann gloves for squeezing my biab bag and for everything else around the brewery.

Even picked stuff off the bottom of a just off the boil 50L pot of wort with the gloves!

 

[robcj]

I love BIAB but I haven't found a "squeeze" or indentation method that doesn't kill your hands from the heat.

I don't squeeze. Tried it once and it seemed like a hassle. I brew with a friend and we just crush very fine, mash-out before we lift the bag and let it hang over the kettle until we're boiling. We brew 8 or 12 gallon batches and hit between 75% to 80% efficiency. I think the crush and mash-out are the key to good efficiency with BIAB. I might be wrong about the mash-out. It could all be in the crush but we're happy with the beer so I'm scared to experiment.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I love BIAB but I haven't found a "squeeze" or indentation method that doesn't kill your hands from the heat.

I have tried a few times, but have finally come to the realization that after suspending the bag above the kettle for a minute or so, squeezing only yields less than a pint or so. Not worth the effort at my current cost of grain.

 

[smyrnaquince]

I don't squeeze. Tried it once and it seemed like a hassle. I brew with a friend and we just crush very fine, mash-out before we lift the bag and let it hang over the kettle until we're boiling. We brew 8 or 12 gallon batches and hit between 75% to 80% efficiency. I think the crush and mash-out are the key to good efficiency with BIAB. I might be wrong about the mash-out. It could all be in the crush but we're happy with the beer so I'm scared to experiment.

I'd say that if you are happy with the beer, don't muck with it. Don't chase numbers, chase good beer!

 

[pfowl01]

I attempted my first BIAB last night, and for the most part it went very well. I love the time savings and simplicity compared to the HERMS rig I used to have. Most of the issues I had are minor and will be easily correctable.

The one issue that has me stumpted is the amount dust (I guess you would call it) from the grain that made it into the boil. There wasn't any husk in the boil that I could tell. But after chilling, it pretty much turned into cake batter and quickly plugged up my hop stopper (from theelectricbrewery.com). I had a sanitized auto-siphon handy that saved the day, but in the future I'd like to make use of the hop stopper.

I followed the OP's process pretty closely. I used a voile bag, not a paint strainer. I ended up stirring the mash quite a bit while fighting to adjust the temp and mashing out. I didn't drain the bag for very long (maybe 5-10 Min), and only lightly pressed the grain bed with a pot lid. I get my grain crushed at he LHBS, so I don't have a lot of control over that at the moment. I don't think the crush would be the problem considering a lot of BIAB brewers double crush their grains. Also, there was less than 2oz of pellet hops in the batch, so that isn't the issue.

Has anyone had this problem before? Is allowing these finer grain particles into the boil just an inevitable part of the BIAB process or am I doing something wrong?

A couple of possible solutions I have thought of are:
- minimize stirring the mash
- don't mash out and adjust efficiency to compensate
- try a different bag (although I think my bag is just fine)
- buy grain from somewhere else, or get a mill.

Any ideas?

Hello,

What a great thread really enjoyed read all 72 pages....wow!!!
I'm a newb and haven't started brewing yet.......still putting all my stuff together. Definently plan on doind BIAB! I have a 15gak keggle with a ball valve,sight glass,thermometer,and a hop stopper. I was planning on using a plate chiller and pump to chill my wort.
Does anyone use a plate chiller with BIAB? Will the hop stopper work in this application or is there too many clogging issuses?

 

[rudy0498]

Hello,

What a great thread really enjoyed read all 72 pages....wow!!!
I'm a newb and haven't started brewing yet.......still putting all my stuff together. Definently plan on doind BIAB! I have a 15gak keggle with a ball valve,sight glass,thermometer,and a hop stopper. I was planning on using a plate chiller and pump to chill my wort.
Does anyone use a plate chiller with BIAB? Will the hop stopper work in this application or is there too many clogging issuses?

I ditched my hopstopper after it clogged on me the first time. I decided that for most beers I brew don't have a large enough hop bill there aren't to worry about clogging. I can use a hop spider if I decide to do an IPA. I don't have a plate or counterflow chiller to worry about, though.

Most of the flour/dust I was referring to in the post doesn't seem to separate with the cold break, so I would think it would make it through a plate chiller just fine. I'm sure others have tried it and can give you a more definitive answer.

My recommendation would be to use a hop sack/spider instead of the stopper. But if you already have one, you could always give it a try and see what happens. Maybe you will have a better experience with it than I did.

I don't think you will have a problem with the plate chiller, but maybe someone else can give you a more definitive answer on that one.

 

[stux]

If you're getting too much grain flour mud at the end of the boil your grind is probably too fine. Try increasing it just a tad.

 

[Domes]

Hello,

What a great thread really enjoyed read all 72 pages....wow!!!
I'm a newb and haven't started brewing yet.......still putting all my stuff together. Definently plan on doind BIAB! I have a 15gak keggle with a ball valve,sight glass,thermometer,and a hop stopper. I was planning on using a plate chiller and pump to chill my wort.
Does anyone use a plate chiller with BIAB? Will the hop stopper work in this application or is there too many clogging issuses?

From what you're saying it sounds like the grind is too fine. I grind my grains around .36 and run them through twice and have never had the pancake batter problem you mentioned. I also condition my malt (slightly wet the grains before grinding) which helps reduce the dust and helps preserve the husk. I'd also recommend buy a good bag, fine mesh bag for use (bought mine on eBay, just type in BIAB). In my experience, stirring the mash doesn't cause a problem. I always do a 90 minute mast with BIAB and stir at 45 minutes and add heat if necessary. I also stir constantly when mashing out as I raise the temp to 170 deg. You need to drain for about a half hour (while the wort is heating up for the boil) or squeeze you bag to get good efficiency. 70% efficiency for BIAB is a decent goal. As far as hops and the hopstopper, I've done this a million ways and I'm still experimenting, but here's the best way to deal with both pellet hops (for leaf, just use a grain sock) and trub . Make 5.5-6 gallon batches. After it has cooled, pour the wort in to a sanitized bottling or fermentation bucket. Give it a couple of good stirs. Cover and let it sit for 90 minutes. You will see the the hops and trub settle to the bottom. Use your auto-siphon to remove the wort from top. You can spend the time cleaning up your equipment while waiting for the trub to settle to the bottom of the bucket.

 

[hunmojo]

hey just a queston to all the biab brewers about their bags.
I just had mine made... well by my grandma. it fits perfect!!

my questioN is how much water is it supposed to hold back in the grains when I lift the bag out.

I feel like I might have gotten something too fine of a mesh. when I lift the bag it starts draining, and after about a few minutes of suspending it comes to a dribble. about 10 minutes later it stops dripping, but shen i got to grab the bulged bag and give it a little squeeze it gushes out water.... is that normal.
I know people squeeze their bags... but I could literally squeeze the things for quite some time and still get a lot of liquid out of it. anywhere from 1-2 liters. after it stopped dripping... should i look for a different mesh.

 

[Mysticmead]

hey just a queston to all the biab brewers about their bags.
I just had mine made... well by my grandma. it fits perfect!!

my questioN is how much water is it supposed to hold back in the grains when I lift the bag out.

I feel like I might have gotten something too fine of a mesh. when I lift the bag it starts draining, and after about a few minutes of suspending it comes to a dribble. about 10 minutes later it stops dripping, but shen i got to grab the bulged bag and give it a little squeeze it gushes out water.... is that normal.
I know people squeeze their bags... but I could literally squeeze the things for quite some time and still get a lot of liquid out of it. anywhere from 1-2 liters. after it stopped dripping... should i look for a different mesh.

perfectly normal. that fine mesh will also be great for keeping the smaller particles out of the boil. It does mean the drain time can be a bit slower. on mashes that have a large portion of rye or wheat it will seem to take forever, a pumpkin mash is even worse. Adding a couple hand fulls of rice hulls to the mash will help in draining but it'll still be slow.

 

[pfowl01]

Sooooo.....What do the experts at BIAB think is a better way to go? Plate chiller with pump or cfc with a pump for chilling the wort?

 

[Mysticmead]

Sooooo.....What do the experts at BIAB think is a better way to go? Plate chiller with pump or cfc with a pump for chilling the wort?

I use an immersion chiller

really it's all a personal preference. Use what you want to use as long as you're happy with it.

 

[jmd1971]

Ok, thinking of using a hybrid method. Here goes. What about lining my 5 gal mash tun (Rubbermaid cooler) w/ my bag & then mashing/batch sparging as usual? I always had trouble with runoff issues previously, but with the bag, I don't see any danger of clogging issues. If runoff is slow, you can lift the bag out a bit. I tried a false bottom, etc. & all sucked. I think this would work & combine the best of BIAB with the best of a traditional mash/lauter system.

Anyone see any issues here? I would not use any false bottom, braid, etc. Just empty vessel with bag & the valve flush.

Thoughts?

 

[Domes]

Worth a try. I think if you lift the bag a bit, the grains will get compacted on the bottom of the bag and the sparge water won't run through them and wash out the sugars. But heck if I know for sure.