BIAB Basket sits too high... how to retain heat?

[pentiumone133]

Well your basket does not meet your requirements, sounds to me like you need to replace it with a smaller one, or cut it to fit. Easiest solution is to sell it and buy another one, hopefully without spending too much dough.

I think what wilser means to say is that you should ditch the basket and get a custom tailored BIAB bag

(I have ordered from him, have a friend that was so impressed with by bag that he ordered one for himself today as well. Guy makes good stuff.)

As a BIAB brewer, I've never had a need for a basket it what I guess I mean to say.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I think what wilser means to say is that you should ditch the basket and get a custom tailored BIAB bag

(I have ordered from him, have a friend that was so impressed with by bag that he ordered one for himself today as well. Guy makes good stuff.)

As a BIAB brewer, I've never had a need for a basket it what I guess I mean to say.

Haha...thanks for the plug pentiumone, what wilser is trying to say is "WHY USE A BASKET", it is called BIAB, not BIABB or brew in a basket bag, really not trying to promote sales, I have a pretty good day job and I think my prices reflect that, just can't figure why lots of brewers desire to use the basket??? I use the basket for seafood boils...works great!

 

[Chris7687]

The purpose of the basket to me is ease of use. The bag I made is very strong and properly fits my kettle. It can hold 35lbs+ and has very strong handles too. The reason I like the basket is I can keep it suspended over the kettle, while giving a little sparge water to the bag, with the water returning directly to the kettle not pouring all over the place because the bag has expanded past the width of the kettle. Ileave the bag to drip dry over the kettle for about 10 minutes before I discard of the grains.

To both wildcat and lonetexan, you both are saying you use a voile cloth bag in your kettle while leaving the element on? No burn marks whatsoever? Lonetexan, I know you mentioned you leave it at 5% manual, do you know what temp that is? Wildcat, what do you leave your temp at? I was thinking of while running my recirc to leave it at the mash tmep I require. I would think 154* would do some damage to voile (believe it's nylon) cloth.

 

[lonetexan]

The purpose of the basket to me is ease of use. The bag I made is very strong and properly fits my kettle. It can hold 35lbs+ and has very strong handles too. The reason I like the basket is I can keep it suspended over the kettle, while giving a little sparge water to the bag, with the water returning directly to the kettle not pouring all over the place because the bag has expanded past the width of the kettle. Ileave the bag to drip dry over the kettle for about 10 minutes before I discard of the grains.

To both wildcat and lonetexan, you both are saying you use a voile cloth bag in your kettle while leaving the element on? No burn marks whatsoever? Lonetexan, I know you mentioned you leave it at 5% manual, do you know what temp that is? Wildcat, what do you leave your temp at? I was thinking of while running my recirc to leave it at the mash tmep I require. I would think 154* would do some damage to voile (believe it's nylon) cloth.

I guess that using the bag in the basket would make it easier to do a sparge rinse of the grains. But why would you NEED to do that? I just string up the bag and let it hang over the kettle while it is coming up to boil. Sometimes I'll give it a good twist and/or squeeze to speed the draining up a little bit. You will not likely get any better efficiency by doing the "sparge" unless you have a really big grain bill.

As far as the PID setting on manual at 5%, there is not a specific temp setting. The PID is essentially turning the element on for 5% of the time and off 95%. This helps maintain the mash temp. So, using the pump to recirculate during the ramp up to mash temp of 156 then dropping in the grains will put me at mash temp of 150-151. Leave the pump off and mash in with your paddle, then set the pid to manual at 5%. I have played with the settings from 5% to 10% and 5% tends to maintain the temp without the temp creeping up.

The voile bag I am using is made from a sheer curtain from walmart. No, there has not been any issue with burning/scorching of the bag. The only time I had an issue was when using the pump to recirculate during the mash and the pump was pulling too fast creating an air pocket under the bag. The bag itself did not burn/scorch, the wort on the element caramelized/burnt. This is why I have stopped recirculating during the mash.

The pump is now just used during ramp up to mash temp and then to recirculate during chilling and then to whirlpool. In reality, I could get by without the pump, it would just mean more stirring.

I typically get 80-85% mash efficiency into the boil kettle and 70-75% overall brewhouse efficiency. This is not just with 1 or 2 batches, but with at least 80-100 gallons in the past year or so.

Bottom line is, if you want to use the basket and it works for you, use the basket. If you don't want to, then don't. The great thing is you will have beer at the end of the day.

 

[Retrofit]

I find a bag shapeless and irritating to use- on it's own. I use a basket to give to my bag shape. The basket prevents the bag from crushing my bazooka screen, from catching on corners, it helps allow wort to drip down rather than to the sides. While not necessary for Brew in a BAG, it sure makes my day easier.

I would go back to one of the initial posts and cut the legs. The legs are the issue, not the basket. Take them off, find some scrap wood, cut some blocks until you have the right height, transfer your measurements to the legs.

I would not cut the top of your pot. That basket lip might come in handy some day, and I also wonder how it's absence would affect the strength of the pot.

Finally, if you don't want to cut the legs and you don't want to cut the pot, couldn't you buy a nice piece of wood and cut yourself a doughnut? I wouldn't use press board and the heat will likely turn it to weird mush, but a real piece of wood could easily fill that gap. For that matter, why not use a silicon tubing, and make yourself a seal/0-ring.

I should point out that I agree with the PID guys, your PID will compensate. I also agree, that gap is a point of inefficiency and sealing that gap will improve your system an infinitely small amount, and that's the kind of piece of mind brewers need to sleep at night.

Who knows what the future holds, you might be cooking lobster in that steamer basket some day, I say don't cut it. Focus on the legs or make a ring/seal from wood or silicon tubing. This fix shouldn't be that hard.

 

[Chris7687]

Retrofit - Thanks for the support on reasoning behind using the basket. Couldn't put the words to "paper", but you hit the nail on the head.

The legs don't need to be cut, I just bought bolts from HD I will just go back and get the next size smaller. But there is still going to be a gap, as I showed in the picture with no legs the 0.75" gap. The silicone tubing might work.

Retrofit- do you eBIAB with recirc? If so, do you find the recirculation that much more efficient?

 

[Retrofit]

I have a RIMS tube and I do recirculate. I haven't perfected the system. When I ditch my RIMS tube and recirculate and use propane to heat my mash, I've got efficiencies as high as 90%

With the RIMS tube, I have a more difficult time establishing a steady temperature, and my efficiency has been in the very high 70's to low 80's.

I built my RIMS system last year and I took it apart this winter. I think I had flow issue/cavitation and I'm reassembling my gear now. I'm not a guy that has this technique mastered, but I think I have experience with the pitfalls.

In addition to having good to great efficiency, when the system works- it's hands off. Those times I've got my temp to stabilize, the stress in my day just goes away. I can clean up, drink a beer, not feel rushed, it's dream brewing. It's great to have people over, not pay attention, and have the mash hit numbers. It's like doing nothing and showing off.

BIAB/recirculation is not friendly to huge amounts of grain/high gravity. But I make a lot of session beers, so I don't need that ability. In some form or fashion I've been doing BIAB for about 3 years and it's resolved many issues my 'normal' all grain buddies have (efficiency, repeatability, clarity, good use of time).

I missed about about the gap wt out the legs, I would focus on using some tubing to make a 'O' ring. It can take the heat, it won't corrupt your beer, it should seal that space. I think that's the ticket!

 

[buckeye2011]

I stopped using my basket after buying wilserbrewer's bag. I've packed it with ~18lbs of wet grain and had no concern that it would rip. I also get slightly better efficiency without the basket because the basket sits ~3" from the bottom of my kettle which means a lot of mash water wasn't reaching the grain. Getting the bag down low in the kettle seems to help.

 

[ChrisL_]

I know you gone without the basket but thought you may be interested in this. I am a new BIAB brewer and was concerned about heat retention and decided to make a "pot cozy". I happened to have some leftover wrap from my hot water tank and came up with this



I just made it and have not tried it yet but think it will be much easier then getting out the blankets to wrap.

Ps I used some stick on Velcro to hold it tight around the pot.

 

[fastfocus]

Did the basket fit properly before the mod's to the kettle?? Looking at the 82q i don't see any feet on this basket. Could they have sent the wrong basket?
http://bayouclassicdepot.com/1182_stainless_steel_stock_pot.htm

I've been looking at the 44q from BC. After reading this thread. I'm a little confused by their measurements. On the 44q "Stainless Steel Stock Pot: 13.5 D x 17.25 H Perforated stainless steel basket – 12.5 D x 12.75 H". If my math is correct that leave 4.5". BUT, in the lower description "The 44 quart stainless steel stock pot basket measures 12 ½ inches by 16 ¼ inches."
http://bayouclassicdepot.com/1144_stainless_steel_stock_pot.htm
With a welded ball valve 4+" sould work fine. But if the second set of measurements are correct then... I don't think so. I'd have the same problem as OP
Maybe another beer will help me understand it

 

[Seven]

Haha...thanks for the plug pentiumone, what wilser is trying to say is "WHY USE A BASKET", it is called BIAB, not BIABB or brew in a basket bag, really not trying to promote sales, I have a pretty good day job and I think my prices reflect that, just can't figure why lots of brewers desire to use the basket??? I use the basket for seafood boils...works great!

I like using a basket for a several reasons. It's much sturdier than a mesh bag alone and it gives me greater control over my brewing process. I don't need to worry about it scorching or tearing when I'm brewing high gravity beers. I can easily squeeze the grain as the basket hangs over the kettle (using a lid or other object) instead of using a separate container outside of the kettle.

Bottom line is I'm sure the same can be accomplished with or without a basket, and in 12-dozen other ways. It's fine if you don't believe in using a basket. It's also fine if others choose to use a basket. It's OK if some people choose to brew differently from your preferred method.

 

[MaxStout]

I'm in the BIABB camp. I like having the basket to better contain the bag and don't have to rely on clipping the bag around the outside rim of the BK. It makes it easier for me to hoist out the grains with a rope & pulley.

I had the same thing happen, with a basket that protruded about an inch above the rim of my BK. During mashing I would set the lid on top and wrap aluminum foil around the kettle to block the gap, but I was still losing 3 or 4 degrees during a 60-minute rest, despite using a blanket to insulate the whole thing. The reason I had this problem in the first place was that the basket was an afterthought, and not designed to go with my shorter kettle.

So I cut 1-1/4" off the top of the basket and replaced the handle. I removed burrs so the bag won't get snagged. Now I can place the lid on my BK with the basket inside. Granted, cutting off the top of the basket removed its rim, so it is now a little less rigid, but that shouldn't be a problem.

I also made an insulating wrap for the kettle, using several layers of Reflectix insulation. I haven't tried the insulation yet, but hopefully it, plus the removal of the gap, will keep my mash temps more consistent.

 

[Retrofit]

Nice job on the wrap! I run mine on a blichmann burner and have feared the while thing catching on fire, so I haven't done it. I bet it helps a lot!

 

[El_Cabrito]

Chris,
what BC did you buy? i haven't seen that explicitly stated in this thread. i ask 'cause i was looking at getting the 1182 which supposedly will work with EBIABB. but if the clearance is wrong i may suck it up and get the 62qt 1160 and do a sparge step for high gravity 10 gal batches.

 

[Sippin37]

Yes I am also a fan of the BIABIAB (brew in a bag in a basket). I find it a lost easier to let the basket rest at the top of my pot and then squeeze all the delicious wort out of the grain. I also drilled all of the holes on the bottom of the basket much larger and the same for the holes on the lower half of the sides, to promote better flow while recirculating the mash and draining. Another positive of this method for me is that the bag can not get sucked into the pump while recirculating.