BIAB and heating element

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rsaunch22

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I have a ss brewtech 15 gallon kettle and want to BIAB as my first step into all grain.. this kettle has a spout and another whole for temperature gauge... I want to add a third hole for a heating element. But couldn't help but think will the bag get caught on the temperature probe and/or the heating element (or possible scorch the bag with direct contact.. ???
 
Some people have mentioned using a spoon to hold the bag away from the temperature probe.

The easy answer to scorching the bag is to not add heat while the bag is in the kettle. Heat the water to strike temp, turn off the heating element and put the bag in. Add the grains, stirring well, and put a lid on. Your mash won't cool appreciably while conversion is going on unless you mill the grains really coarse but since you are doing BIAB, why would you do that? Take advantage of the filtering ability of the bag and mill the grains fine.

When the mash is over, take the bag out before turning on the heat.
 
I have a ss brewtech 15 gallon kettle and want to BIAB as my first step into all grain.. this kettle has a spout and another whole for temperature gauge... I want to add a third hole for a heating element. But couldn't help but think will the bag get caught on the temperature probe and/or the heating element (or possible scorch the bag with direct contact.. ???

You can take the temp probe out and plug it if you're worried about it. If it's got a thermowell, then it shouldn't be particularly sharp, how far into the kettle does it go?

The bag shouldn't be catching on the element, which goes near the bottom of the kettle. It could scorch if you turn it on while the bag is in there, so don't do that unless you get a false bottom over the element to prevent it from touching. The false bottom will give your mash some (and maybe a lot of) dead space, so may not be worth it unless you are recirculating.

My upper kettle hole that I presume was for a thermometer is plugged, and near the bottom I have holes for the ball valve and heating element. I don't use a false bottom because of the large dead space it would create (I don't recirculate). I don't turn on the element with the bag in it.
 
You can take the temp probe out and plug it if you're worried about it. If it's got a thermowell, then it shouldn't be particularly sharp, how far into the kettle does it go?

The bag shouldn't be catching on the element, which goes near the bottom of the kettle. It could scorch if you turn it on while the bag is in there, so don't do that unless you get a false bottom over the element to prevent it from touching. The false bottom will give your mash some (and maybe a lot of) dead space, so may not be worth it unless you are recirculating.

My upper kettle hole that I presume was for a thermometer is plugged, and near the bottom I have holes for the ball valve and heating element. I don't use a false bottom because of the large dead space it would create (I don't recirculate). I don't turn on the element with the bag in it.
Awesome thank you. Cheers
 
I removed the heating element from my kettle because it was burning the wort and giving an off taste to my beer. I've got an Avantco 3.5kW induction heater instead and it works great for my BIABs. The fridge magnet sticks to my kettle, so it is good for induction heating.
 
I removed the heating element from my kettle because it was burning the wort and giving an off taste to my beer. I've got an Avantco 3.5kW induction heater instead and it works great for my BIABs. The fridge magnet sticks to my kettle, so it is good for induction heating.

I'm wondering what element that was because I know a few dozen electric brewers personally that make some of the best beer in existence.
 
I set up the bag, fill the pot with water and turn on the electrical element. I don't have a fake bottom or a pump. Since the bag is light, it practically floats completely towards the top and does not touch the heating element. The thermometer is not built into the pot but I measure the surface temperature. I have already learned over time how long it takes to heat water so it only serves to control my temperature. During the mash I turned on the heater to reheat the water and it never damaged my bag.

I agree that a false bottom does not work without a pump.
 
I agree that a false bottom does not work without a pump.
I don't agree with that. My ebiab kettle is a tamale steamer that has it's own false bottom and I don't have a pump. I maybe don't get the highest efficiency but I get 75-80% depending if I do a dunk sparge.
 
I don't agree with that. My ebiab kettle is a tamale steamer that has it's own false bottom and I don't have a pump. I maybe don't get the highest efficiency but I get 75-80% depending if I do a dunk sparge.

How do you mix liquid and grain under a false bottom?
 
How do you mix liquid and grain under a false bottom?
With full volume mash, you have way more water than needed for a good conversion. The liquid under the FB that doesn't mix with the grain is not a big deal. You still have more liquid in the grain bed than with a traditional mash tun.

If you can recirc, that's just a bonus.
 
How do you mix liquid and grain under a false bottom?
Not mixing the liquid under the FB with the wort in the grain bed will reduce your lauter efficiency a small amount. How much depends on what fraction of the total liquid volume is under the FB (more under the FB leads to lower lauter efficiency), and just how much diffusion of sugar occurs from the bulk of the mash into the dilute wort under the FB. The efficiency loss can be reduced by doing several vorlauf rounds near the end of the mash.

Edit: On thinking about it a little more, the optimal way to deal with a false bottom w/o pump might be to slowly draw off a volume equal to the volume under the FB at the end of the mash, and then pour the collected liquid back over the grain. You would do this at the end of the mash, and only once. If anyone is really interested I can explain the rationale for this approach.

Brew on :mug:
 
Last edited:
Not mixing the liquid under the FB with the wort in the grain bed will reduce your lauter efficiency a small amount. How much depends on what fraction of the total liquid volume is under the FB (more under the FB leads to lower lauter efficiency), and just how much diffusion of sugar occurs from the bulk of the mash into the dilute wort under the FB. The efficiency loss can be reduced by doing several vorlauf rounds near the end of the mash.

Edit: On thinking about it a little more, the optimal way to deal with a false bottom w/o pump might be to slowly draw off a volume equal to the volume under the FB at the end of the mash, and then pour the collected liquid back over the grain. You would do this at the end of the mash, and only once. If anyone is really interested I can explain the rationale for this approach.

Brew on :mug:
I would love a more detailed explanation! Sometimes I do that kind of modified vorlauf but it has never made a terribly huge difference on my system. My false bottom has fully 1 gallon under it and my typical mash volume is 3.5 gallons to end up with 2.5 gallons of beer.

Full disclosure: I am not the type of brewer that worries about hitting all my numbers and eking every iota of efficiency out of my system. I get the appeal of it but it's almost more fun for me to see how lazy I can be and still make damn good beer.
 
Not mixing the liquid under the FB with the wort in the grain bed will reduce your lauter efficiency a small amount. How much depends on what fraction of the total liquid volume is under the FB (more under the FB leads to lower lauter efficiency), and just how much diffusion of sugar occurs from the bulk of the mash into the dilute wort under the FB. The efficiency loss can be reduced by doing several vorlauf rounds near the end of the mash.

Edit: On thinking about it a little more, the optimal way to deal with a false bottom w/o pump might be to slowly draw off a volume equal to the volume under the FB at the end of the mash, and then pour the collected liquid back over the grain. You would do this at the end of the mash, and only once. If anyone is really interested I can explain the rationale for this approach.

Brew on :mug:
I would love a more detailed explanation! Sometimes I do that kind of modified vorlauf but it has never made a terribly huge difference on my system. My false bottom has fully 1 gallon under it and my typical mash volume is 3.5 gallons to end up with 2.5 gallons of beer.

Full disclosure: I am not the type of brewer that worries about hitting all my numbers and eking every iota of efficiency out of my system. I get the appeal of it but it's almost more fun for me to see how lazy I can be and still make damn good beer.
Lauter efficiency is the fraction of sugar created in the mash that is collected in the BK. The formula is:

Lauter Efficiency = Amount of Sugar into BK / Amount of Sugar Created in Mash​

Since all the sugar created in the mash ends up in either the BK, or left in the wort absorbed by the spent grain, this can be rewritten as:

Lauter Efficiency = 1 - Amount of Sugar Left in Grain / Amount of Sugar Created in Mash​
So, the more sugar in the wort absorbed by the spent grain, the lower the lauter efficiency.

With a false bottom, and no recirculation, the concentration of sugar in wort in the grain bed will be higher than the concentration of sugar in the wort under the FB. Now if you pull the bag/basket, all the low concentration wort stays in the BK, and the wort absorbed by the grain is the highest concentration wort, meaning more sugar is held in the spent grain. Thus, reduced lauter efficiency.

On the other hand, if you drain the volume under the FB into a bucket, you collect the low concentration wort, and it is replaced by higher concentration wort under the FB. The wort in the grain bed flows towards the bottom of the grain bed, and this is high concentration wort. Now if you slowly pour the drained lower concentration wort back on top of the grain bed, the bottom of the grain bed will have higher concentration wort, and the top of the bed will be lower concentration wort. Pulling the bag/basket will drain most of the higher concentration wort, and lower concentration wort will be left behind in the grain. Thus you get an increase in lauter efficiency.

The above effect is not perfect, as there will be some mixing of the higher and lower concentration worts when draining. And the difference in lauter efficiency is not huge, probably just a few percent. But, if you are struggling with low efficiency, and it bothers you, then this is something you can do to help.

Brew on :mug:
 
I use a 15-gallon kettle with a Blichmann BoilCoil with no false bottom for eBIAB. I have temperature probe that protrudes through the coils slightly, so I put a piece of silicone tubing which is slightly longer than the probe over it to avoid snagging the bag. I heat during the mash while stirring since I don't have a recirc pump yet. The BoilCoil does not scorch the bag.
 
I removed the heating element from my kettle because it was burning the wort and giving an off taste to my beer. I've got an Avantco 3.5kW induction heater instead and it works great for my BIABs. The fridge magnet sticks to my kettle, so it is good for induction heating.

Pardon the interruption.

Did you need a dedicated outlet and plug for the Avantco 3.5kW?
 
Pardon the interruption.

Did you need a dedicated outlet and plug for the Avantco 3.5kW?
A 3.5kW heater requires a 240V supply. If you have one available (stove, dryer, car charger, welder, etc.), then you don't need a dedicated outlet.

Brew on :mug:
 
A 3.5kW heater requires a 240V supply. If you have one available (stove, dryer, car charger, welder, etc.), then you don't need a dedicated outlet.

Brew on :mug:

Just to add on: Though it's 240v it's only 15 amps so it's pretty cheap to set up a circuit for it. 14/2 romex is still pretty reasonable.
 
Just to add on: Though it's 240v it's only 15 amps so it's pretty cheap to set up a circuit for it. 14/2 romex is still pretty reasonable.
You can do this, but you have to use an outlet that is incompatible with most other 240V equipment. Code does not allow you to wire a more common 30A or 50A outlet with 14AWG wire.

Brew on :mug:
 
Actually even though 3500 watts draws just under 15 amps, it actually has a 6-20P plug on it so you'd need 12/2 romex and a 6-20R receptacle. I have a 20 amp 240v outlet for a spot welder but an even more common use for 6-20R is high BTU window air conditioners. It's not completely unheard of to have 15 and 20 amp 240v circuits.
 
Since you have a spout, you could add a T and put your temp probe there, then add a pump and recirculate.
 
You can do this, but you have to use an outlet that is incompatible with most other 240V equipment. Code does not allow you to wire a more common 30A or 50A outlet with 14AWG wire.

Brew on :mug:
Lol, unless you happen to have a 15 amp 240v tablesaw outlet right next to your workbench/brew table! Worked great for my Advantco, before I switched to a 10gal Blichmann w/boil coil and Brew Commander for my BIAB.
 

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