BIAB AG recipe question

[crunch1224]

Hi im new to BIAB and have only been doing bourbon mash recipes. Im going to jump into AG beer in the near future and have a few questions. I used the search feature and ran across a lot of good information, but need clarification.

Can I use a AG kit that doesnt say its for BIAB or do I have to convert the recipe.

Can I purchase the ingredients of a kit and follow the instructions cheaper then buying the kit.

I see Pyrex Erlenmeyer flasks for sale on Amazon and in the comments I see people calling them fake. Are there any real Pyrex Erlenmeyer flasks on Amazon.

 

[sketerbuck]

The efficiency is usually lower in BIAB so you would have to add about a pound of base grain to the recipe.

Kits are usually cheaper unless you buy in bulk

Make sure the Flask is borosilicate glass.

 

[crunch1224]

The efficiency is usually lower in BIAB so you would have to add about a pound of base grain to the recipe.

Kits are usually cheaper unless you buy in bulk

Make sure the Flask is borosilicate glass.

From what I understand not all borosilicate glass is created equal. I keep seeing comments about bubbles of air in the glass and not a flat bottom which causes the magnet stir stick to fly off. Could someone point me in the right direction of a good flask?

 

[RedlegEd]

From what I understand not all borosilicate glass is created equal. I keep seeing comments about bubbles of air in the glass and not a flat bottom which causes the magnet stir stick to fly off. Could someone point me in the right direction of a good flask?

Hi. This is the E-flask I ordered from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004XR5W5E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I can attest the one I received is a "real" Pyrex branded Erlenmeyer Flask, and I use it a lot. Ed


ETA: If you buy one, go ahead and buy one of these too. It's an add on item.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002VBW5HC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[RM-MN]

The efficiency is usually lower in BIAB so you would have to add about a pound of base grain to the recipe.

Kits are usually cheaper unless you buy in bulk

Make sure the Flask is borosilicate glass.

Most of us who do BIAB regularly usually get higher efficiency than those who use a conventional tun and have to reduce our base grain. You need to check your facts.

 

[crunch1224]

I take everything with a grain of salt, and from what I understand the grind on the grain needs to be finer for biab and that helps a ton on efficiency.

 

[RM-MN]

I take everything with a grain of salt, and from what I understand the grind on the grain needs to be finer for biab and that helps a ton on efficiency.

I'd say that the grain doesn't need to be milled finer but that it can be and and that by itself raises efficiency. If you use the same grain milling with BIAB as with a conventional tun the efficiency can still be a little higher as you can squeeze the bag of grain to extract a bit more wort, then sparge and squeeze again. Also since you are mashing in the boil pot there won't be any dead space in the tun to capture some of your wort and reduce your efficiency.

 

[crunch1224]

Thanks guys for all the answers

 

[NSMikeD]

As you can see the answer to the kit question is like Schrodinger's Cat. Yes and No and you won't know until you open the box. The milling will reduce efficiencies but you can off set that with squeezing and sparging plus you don't lose wort.

fwiw, I keep DME on hand that I can quickly calculate, measure out, fast boil and add to my wort before pitching in case I missed my numbers.

You may want to use a basic pale ale recipe that is proven for BIAB to start with (I can't imagine the cost difference to be material) to get a base line of your own efficiencies before trying kits that may need adjusting. This is where using a software (free or pay) is very helpful

 

[crunch1224]

As you can see the answer to the kit question is like Schrodinger's Cat. Yes and No and you won't know until you open the box. The milling will reduce efficiencies but you can off set that with squeezing and sparging plus you don't lose wort.

fwiw, I keep DME on hand that I can quickly calculate, measure out, fast boil and add to my wort before pitching in case I missed my numbers.

You may want to use a basic pale ale recipe that is proven for BIAB to start with (I can't imagine the cost difference to be material) to get a base line of your own efficiencies before trying kits that may need adjusting. This is where using a software (free or pay) is very helpful

Yes the kit question has made me ponder for sometime. The strength of the hops in the kit if its not given could mess me up totally and I wouldnt be able to recreate the recipe without trial and error. The grains could need more crushing.

So far bourbon mashes have been easy for me and fun. I use a 10 gallon Igloo mash tun biab for conversion and been pretty accurate on my numbers. I have a 14% abv wort almost finished up in the fermenter right now.

I think I am going to find a tried and true biab kit and not be so picky.

 

[PADave]

The efficiency is usually lower in BIAB so you would have to add about a pound of base grain to the recipe.

Not true. I brewed many kits precrushed doing BIAB and they all turned out fine. Depending on where they were ordered from would affect efficiency. To get consistency your best bet is to buy your own mill. Now that I have my own mill, and put together my own recipes, I actually increase my batch size to offset the higher efficiency.

 

[sketerbuck]

Not true. I brewed many kits precrushed doing BIAB and they all turned out fine. Depending on where they were ordered from would affect efficiency. To get consistency your best bet is to buy your own mill. Now that I have my own mill, and put together my own recipes, I actually increase my batch size to offset the higher efficiency.

what efficiency are you getting?

 

[sketerbuck]

Most of us who do BIAB regularly usually get higher efficiency than those who use a conventional tun and have to reduce our base grain. You need to check your facts.

Maybe after you get a process down and change milling procedure. If you take an average all grain recipe at 75 percent efficiency and milled for use in a mash tun you wont usually hit that on your first BIAB.

 

[kh54s10]

Kits are usually cheaper unless you buy in bulk

This is also not true. You can almost always buy the ingredients less expensively than what a kit costs.

My all grain brews average in the high $20s. Even if I have to buy each grain in pound increments. A kit is almost always in the $30 - $40 range or higher.

 

[chickypad]

Maybe after you get a process down and change milling procedure. If you take an average all grain recipe at 75 percent efficiency and milled for use in a mash tun you wont usually hit that on your first BIAB.

Like the others pointed out, I think you're making generalizations aren't necessarily true. I did my first BIAB batch 5 yrs ago without changing the crush from what I use when fly sparging in a mash tun on my other system, and I got 77%. I do agree that some shops/vendors crush very poorly, more coarsely than many of us would for our regular tuns. But it's a misconception that you have to crush to flour to get good efficiency with BIAB. I never did bother trying to crush finer since I'm happy sitting in the mid to high 70's consistently.

 

[TexasWine]

Maybe after you get a process down and change milling procedure. If you take an average all grain recipe at 75 percent efficiency and milled for use in a mash tun you wont usually hit that on your first BIAB.

I see in your profile that you own a LHBS. I'm assuming that perhaps you've told patrons of your shop some of the same things you've said here in this thread.

Please take what I and others are saying here, test them for yourself if you haven't, and let those fine folks who spend their hard earned cash at your shop know that they don't need to add extra base malt if they want to do BIAB.

My first BIAB was a Pliny kit from More Beer. Hit all my numbers perfectly with their crush.

Before I switched to no sparge I had built all my average gravity recipes (<1.075) on 80% brewhouse efficiency and would always exceed myself efficiency. No sparge has brought me down to 70-75%, and I use a crush that is in the range of a crush normally use with a mash tun at 0.040.

Hope this info helps. Again, don't take our word for it. Try a no sparge batch and see what happens!

 

[soccerdad]

I understand what sketterbuck is trying to say when he adds "on your first BIAB." I think my conversion was closer to 65 than 75 the first time out. I had pre-milled grains and mashed 60 minutes as though a longer mash would tilt the world off its axis. I read a bit, mashed longer and began to exceed 75%. I now have my own mill (a hand crank Victoria) and always get over 75 - more like 80. It only took once, but my 'very first" was less than stellar. Even still, the low efficiency myth should be dispelled.

 

[Tommydee]

I am new as well to brewing and BIAB. I've done both kits and recipes with beersmith.

I stressed for a while over this, and did tons of math and checking in multiple software, along with my own mass balance calculations (I'm an engineer)....all of this was in the end not really needed. If you have a refractometer, you can be simple and precise, and have fun. If not, you're probably still fine.
If using a 5 gal kit:
Choose a simple recipe in the 1.04-1.06 SG range. Ask to double grind for BIAB. If they won't do, find another supplier.
Get a bag from wilserbag or similar quality.
Start with 7.5 gallons water, use beersmith or online calc to get strike temp. Usually it's near 160 for a 152 mash.
Don't mess with sparging.

After pulling the bag, note volume, you should be somewhere between 6.5 to 7 gallons...squeeze a bit to get in this range. This volume is important to write down, so you can adjust for next brew.

Optional for precision (YOU CAN SKIP) - take refractometer reading before you start the boil. Divide last 2 digits by your target. Yesterday, I was at 1.037 at 7 gallons after lauter, with target 1.049 SG. 37/49 = 0.76 (76%). Then, .76 x 7 = 5.3. So, I'm going to try and get close to 5.3 after boil AND cooling. (Probably want to see above the 5 1/2 line on kettle,since end of boil liquid is expanded, and immersion cooler displaces volume)

OR skip the precision step, and honestly, you'll be pretty close if you did everything ok.

Take a careful, temp adjusted SG measurement, and mark your volume in the kettle prior to FV transfer. My first BIAB I underestimated my boiloff, so I actually added water at this step before sending to fermenter.

Record volume in fermenter.

On batch 2, If you want to skip kits, you can use BIAB calculator or beersmith. I use beersmith BIAB equip profile, and find 69% efficiency seems to be working ok. You'll need those volumes for boiloff and other stuff from the first batch. It's a pain to order grain in weird fractions, so for now, I put the recipe in beersmith with whole numbers, which is how you'll typically find them, then adjust my batch volume to get the SG needed, then follow the instructions for strikewater volume and temp.

Now, I'm thinking about doing a big beer next, and I'll need to "guess" at a lower efficiency, different volumes, etc....but it will all make sense, just start brewing! I suggest an APA in the high SG range to start, these beers are going to be good if it's a bit weaker or stronger than your target.

 

[crunch1224]

Thank you for all the information.

I also am a avid gardener with a tomato passion. One year I grew 35 different variety's of tomatoes lmao. So I have been wanting to get a refractometer to measure the brix values of my tomatoes anyways. I guess this gives me one more reason to get off my butt and go buy one hehe.

 

[Tommydee]

My wife and I love tomatoes as well....and now I have a new use for the refractometer....wish I would have known this, would have made it easier to justify yet another beer purchase!

 

[NSMikeD]

Hi im new to BIAB and have only been doing bourbon mash recipes. Im going to jump into AG beer in the near future and have a few questions. I used the search feature and ran across a lot of good information, but need clarification.

Can I use a AG kit that doesnt say its for BIAB or do I have to convert the recipe.

Can I purchase the ingredients of a kit and follow the instructions cheaper then buying the kit.

I see Pyrex Erlenmeyer flasks for sale on Amazon and in the comments I see people calling them fake. Are there any real Pyrex Erlenmeyer flasks on Amazon.

fwiw, I just brewed a NB John Palmer Elevenses partial grain kit (half grain half extract). I put it in Beer Smith and brewed it at a full volume BIAB ignoring the step mash instructions. I included 1# of Light DME to consider the possible lower efficiency. I ended up with 1.053 OG as opposed to the target 1.049. The kit OG is 1.045. The DME was not needed at all.

So my experience says go ahead with kits and brew them as BIAB.