Better to make small starter or none?

[pretzelb]

I noticed too late that my DME stock is low and I have a recipe kit coming in. If I don't have enough to make a starter as per the calculations at Mr Malty would it be better to NOT do a starter? Or is any size starter better than no starter?

 

[enid]

If your pitching from a WY smack pack or WL tube a 1L starter minimum, if its any less your better off pitching direct.

 

[TipsyDragon]

any size is better than no starter at all. personally i'm a fan of pitching more than one tube.

 

[Bobby_M]

Even if you can only get like 1.030 @ 1 liter, I'd still do it.

 

[ArcaneXor]

any size is better than no starter at all. personally i'm a fan of pitching more than one tube.

I disagree. How is a 1-pt starter going to do anything beneficial for the yeast?

 

[TipsyDragon]

I disagree. How is a 1-pt starter going to do anything beneficial for the yeast?

it will increase its population. getting it closer to the target pitch rate. it will lessen the affects of a low pitch rate. something is better than nothing.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Read the Mr Malty Fourteen Essential Questions About Yeast Starters. A starter that is too small actually render the yeast LESS prepared to ferment a full batch of beer than no starter at all. There is very little growth in the population and the yeast are depleted of nutrients. It's all in that article.

EDIT: The yeast in a vial/pack has more nutrients than any yeast we get from a starter or fermentation. That's one reason why you can pitch less straight from a vial/pack than from a previous fermentation (like a starter). Also, the comment in that article about 1L being the smallest you should go...that's if you use a reasonably fresh vial/pack. If the yeast is old (i.e. less viable) then you could use a starter less than 1L (and prob should use a gravity lower than 1.040).

 

[ArcaneXor]

it will increase its population. getting it closer to the target pitch rate. it will lessen the affects of a low pitch rate. something is better than nothing.

Unless the yeast is very old, there are more than enough cells to ferment a 1-qt starter, hence there won't be any reproduction. They'll end up in worse condition that pitching straight from the vial.

 

[enid]

Also, the comment in that article about 1L being the smallest you should go...that's if you use a reasonably fresh vial/pack. If the yeast is old (i.e. less viable) then you could use a starter less than 1L (and prob should use a gravity lower than 1.040).

That is correct, I assumed a fresh pack of yeast.

 

[Mayday99]

Forgive the sacrilege here, but lately I have been skipping starters all together for my standard gravity 5 gallon batches.

I have been using the Wyeast smackpacks (1056 and some others as well) and smacking and letting them go for 6-10 hours at room temperature before I pitch.

I have always had total or almost total inflation on the packs.

Typically I have airlock activity 10 or so hours after I pitch (in a 7.5G fermenter)

I'm sure others (most?) would disagree, but I have been satisfied with the results.

 

[ajf]

Read the Mr Malty Fourteen Essential Questions About Yeast Starters. A starter that is too small actually render the yeast LESS prepared to ferment a full batch of beer than no starter at all. There is very little growth in the population and the yeast are depleted of nutrients. It's all in that article.

That's not what he said at all.
What he really said was:
"Parker says putting a fresh vial of yeast into 500 ml of wort and letting such a small starter go to completion can actually leave the yeast less ready to ferment a batch of beer. The yeast do not rebuild their reserves and have very little increase in cell mass. The minimum starter size for significant yeast growth from a vial or pack of yeast is 1 liter. One vial or pack into 1 liter results in approximately a 50% increase in cell mass.
Some brewers make a small starter volume (500 ml or less) with the sole intent of “waking” the yeast. When making small starters, it is best to pitch the entire volume at the height of activity."
The last paragraph directly contradicts what you said.
For a different perspective, you could check out http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/yeast-propagation-and-maintenance-principles-and-practices
If you search for "cup" in that article, you will find the second hit gives details on how to produce a 500 ml starter.
The secret to using a small starter is "starters propagated in nutrient fortified wort."
I seems to make sense to me that adding nutrients to the starter can make all the difference, but Jamil doesn't seem to take this important fact into account.

-a.

 

[pretzelb]

Using the Mr Malty calculator, the Feb 1 date of the Wyeast #3787 and the 1047 OG for the NB Patersbier recipe, with intermittent shaking, the result is a 1 liter starter. I checked and I have two separate bags of DME, one being golden light and the other just light (different brands). If I combine those then I'd have enough for a liter starter. Assuming that it's ok to combine the two DME I will be good for this batch and I just need to remember to order more next time.

 

[Wellshooter]

Using the Mr Malty calculator, the Feb 1 date of the Wyeast #3787 and the 1047 OG for the NB Patersbier recipe, with intermittent shaking, the result is a 1 liter starter. I checked and I have two separate bags of DME, one being golden light and the other just light (different brands). If I combine those then I'd have enough for a liter starter. Assuming that it's ok to combine the two DME I will be good for this batch and I just need to remember to order more next time.

It'll work in a pinch, and you are in a pinch.

This discussion omits the building of starters from slants. If it is ok to do that then any size starter is better than no starter.

 

[kevmoron]

Build a starter to whatever volume will give you 1.040, and make sure to fortify with yeast nutrient. Pitch at high krausen. You may not get a lot of propagation from it, but at the very least you will wake up the yeast and they will be in a better state than when you started. Coming straight from the vial, their glycogen reserves will be low, so getting them started ahead of time will allow them to build this up and be in a position to propagate better once you pitch into the 5 gallons. Pitching at high krausen is ciritical, however. If you let it ferment to completion, they will be pooped out and worse off than when you started. I would recommend pitching the starter about 18-24 hours ahead of when you plan to pitch the main batch.

 

[BBKing]

Forgive the sacrilege here, but lately I have been skipping starters all together for my standard gravity 5 gallon batches.

I have been using the Wyeast smackpacks (1056 and some others as well) and smacking and letting them go for 6-10 hours at room temperature before I pitch.

I have always had total or almost total inflation on the packs.

Typically I have airlock activity 10 or so hours after I pitch (in a 7.5G fermenter)

I'm sure others (most?) would disagree, but I have been satisfied with the results.

Hell if it ferments properly and you're happy with it, then I cant see why anyone else would have reason to bitch.