Better Call Saul

Williams 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
btbnl said:
No reason I can see why the “bring the bribe into it and you’re both implicated” line wouldn’t have worked before Saul surrenders his $30K, especially with the other assets the Kettlepeople obviously have, and all the more so once he has the money in hand.
Click to expand...

The evidence against Saul would be circumstantial but compelling. He's the one that found them in the woods and got all wrapped up in their disappearance. The police think he's a bad guy, and, as they say, he's the kind of lawyer criminals hire. Maybe he doesn't get caught or actually get charged with anything, but it would be a big deal. It would lead to an investigation for sure and he probably would take a big PR hit. Best case scenario, he squeaks out of it and goes on with life with a shadow and a ton of suspicion cast over him. Worst case scenario, he goes to jail.
 
Barley_Bob said:
The evidence against Saul would be circumstantial but compelling. He's the one that found them in the woods and got all wrapped up in their disappearance. The police think he's a bad guy, and, as they say, he's the kind of lawyer criminals hire. Maybe he doesn't get caught or actually get charged with anything, but it would be a big deal. It would lead to an investigation for sure and he probably would take a big PR hit. Best case scenario, he squeaks out of it and goes on with life with a shadow and a ton of suspicion cast over him. Worst case scenario, he goes to jail.
Click to expand...

Sure, but all of that is still true when he finally (and successfully) uses the both-implicated argument.
 
btbnl said:
Sure, but all of that is still true when he finally (and successfully) uses the both-implicated argument.
Click to expand...

Sure. For one thing, though, when he said that, he actually didn't have any of the cash, and he didn't have unexplained expenditures anyone could point to that would indicate a bride.

Second, Saul has forced them into claiming they returned the cash as an act of good will to get the plea deal. If they turn around and say they were forced into it by Saul, to whom they previously paid a bribe, Mr. Kettleman does 30 years.

Finally, although all of this is somewhat tenuous, I would point out that the Kettlemans aren't exactly operating on pure logic. Removing the cash as a piece of solid evidence and pushing them into confessing may have been sufficiently demoralizing to lead them to simply wave the white flag on the whole business. They're delusional, and we shouldn't assume they have a rational thought process. Betsy Kettleman is not exactly Walter White.
 
Subbed in cuz I'm a fan of the show.
Lots of good banter going on here about the show.
The episodes with Tuco were intense, let's you know that he was Loco long before he met Walter White.
 
Is this Sandpiper Crossing "syringe" fraud just fraud? Or is this part of a bigger money laundering gig that leads into Jimmy getting mixed up with the wrong people? Hoping Chuck can make a turnaround once he noticed he was able to go outside without an issue there at the end. Sad that this season is only 10 episodes! Loving it though
 
Yeah... I don't get the Rico thing either. Don't most larger places mail order general supplies in bulk? Why is marking up a supply bought in another state applicable to Fraud or RICO laws?
 
nutty_gnome said:
Yeah... I don't get the Rico thing either. Don't most larger places mail order general supplies in bulk? Why is marking up a supply bought in another state applicable to Fraud or RICO laws?
Click to expand...

It is not the "marking up" that is the problem. Every company is entitled to a profit margin / markup.
The problem is in the intentional fraudulent markup that exceeds the norm.

3.50 for a roll of toilet paper?
14 bucks for Kleenex?
And when it crosses state lines, the severity becomes worse. Better organization......

RICO was originally written up in the 70's to combat Mafia activities, but it was written VERY loosely to cover ALL sorts of organized crime.

Sandpiper Crossing has very definitely "organized" this fraud.

I knew that once Chuck got focused on something his EMR crap would go away. I ultimately think that this was self induced by Chuck as a reaction to something stressful at HHM or to somehow protect Jimmy and give him a focus of taking care of his brother.
 
I love the work ethic of Saul. He works harder than Kim, Hamlin or anyone else at HHM.
Week after week he is trying to do the right thing and in the end he winds up with nothing but $140 for working up a will for the elderly.

I wonder if his conversion to Saul is going to because he has been crushed so many times, or he just simply realizes that "Saul" is the only way he can achieve success!

Chuck is sick, it is not electro magnetic whatever, it is in his head. When he is too busy to think about it he runs outside.
That long shot to end the episode was beautifully shot!

Either way this is hands down on of the better shows on TV right now!
 
The other issue is that since the fraud occurred across state lines (syringe company in Nebraska shipping to NM), it becomes a federal case. That's bad news for Sandpiper and their attorneys knew it once it was pointed out to them that the syringe company was in Nebraska.
 
hezagenius said:
The other issue is that since the fraud occurred across state lines (syringe company in Nebraska shipping to NM), it becomes a federal case. That's bad news for Sandpiper and their attorneys knew it once it was pointed out to them that the syringe company was in Nebraska.
Click to expand...

I know right... As soon as they pointed out that invoice the tone changed.

hezagenius said:
I also think that since Charles said to use his billing code for Westlaw, that somehow Hamlin is going to try to profit from the Sandpiper case.
Click to expand...

Indeed. I thought that might be a bad idea. Kim makes mention and Jimmy points out that his contract allows him to work with outside firms.
But like any good law firm, they are looking to make a buck and 20 million is quite a few bucks.
:mug:
 
Depending on the structure of HHM, they may even be entitled to some of the settlement/court award, but it will be another reason for us to dislike Hamlin. I think Charles was a little absent minded when he said to bill it to his code and didn't realize the ramifications down the road.
 
brewkinger said:
Indeed. I thought that might be a bad idea. Kim makes mention and Jimmy points out that his contract allows him to work with outside firms.
But like any good law firm, they are looking to make a buck and 20 million is quite a few bucks.
:mug:
Click to expand...

The flashback where Hamlin was basically telling (my assumption since the volume was muted) Jimmy he wouldn't be able to work there as a lawyer shows there is a lot we don't know yet about how things went to with Jimmy, Chuck and Hamlin. For all we know there could be something forbidding Jimmy to work with Hamlin, or Chuck to work at all... who knows
 
I have to get past the ridiculous proposition that Jimmy went to law school "online" and is somehow licensed to practice law in New Mexico.

With the other technical problems that have pointed out here, this one is the biggest stretch yet. I don't dislike the show as a result, I just thought to be a little over the top.
 
Ridire said:
I have to get past the ridiculous proposition that Jimmy went to law school "online" and is somehow licensed to practice law in New Mexico.

With the other technical problems that have pointed out here, this one is the biggest stretch yet. I don't dislike the show as a result, I just thought to be a little over the top.
Click to expand...

I am still not 100% his law degree is real... but who knows. I don't know much about legal stuff, but do you have to have a law degree to take the bar?
 
Ridire said:
I have to get past the ridiculous proposition that Jimmy went to law school "online" and is somehow licensed to practice law in New Mexico.

With the other technical problems that have pointed out here, this one is the biggest stretch yet. I don't dislike the show as a result, I just thought to be a little over the top.
Click to expand...

Online law school is not that ridiculous, there are quite a few. And once you have a degree and meet the criteria you can take the bar.
whether or not they are reputable is another discussion.
I think this is one of the reasons Hamlin dislikes Jimmy. Hamlin comes off as a blue blooded, Ivy Leaguer who was born and bred to be a lawyer.
Jimmy studied online and is working his way up and will only be a hack in Hamlin's eyes.
 
brettwasbtd said:
...t do you have to have a law degree to take the bar?
Click to expand...

Short answer = yes. I do not believe there is a state in the US that still allows someone to get a law license without having graduated from a law school. I believe, in fact, that California is the only state that will allow someone to practice law without a degree from an ABA accredited law school (still need a degree from a "California accredited law school"). There is no such thing as a "distance learning" ABA accredited law school.

No way he practices law (legally) in New Mexico with a correspondence degree.
 
Pyg said:
Online law school is not that ridiculous, there are quite a few. And once you have a degree and meet the criteria you can take the bar.
Click to expand...

Not true...unless you are practicing in California...with no reciprocity to any other state.

There is no such thing as an ABA accredited correspondence law school.
 
It was an uncomfortable part of the episode, for sure. I had to tell myself that it's just tv...but they could've never mentioned how he got his degree and I'd have never wondered.
Maybe something will come of it, but they could have done better.
 
Alpotun said:
It was an uncomfortable part of the episode, for sure. I had to tell myself that it's just tv...but they could've never mentioned how he got his degree and I'd have never wondered.
Maybe something will come of it, but they could have done better.
Click to expand...

I also believe it would be nearly impossible to carry the work load of law school, and bar study, without your employer and brother noticing.

EDIT: minor plot hole, but I thought it was very poorly executed by the writers.
 
Perhaps it is unrealistic - but the whole thing is a work of fiction.

I think this plot point underscores the idea that Jimmy is willing to work in the background in less-than-optimal conditions to get what he wants. He is very results oriented - he doesn't care about the Journey... he just cares about getting where he wants to be. His frustration as a public defender a few episodes ago clearly spells out that he expects results and doesn't care how he gets them. To him, the overseas law school (Go Landcrabs!) was just another hurdle so why not make it as simple as possible via a correspondence program? In his mind, it was just the same as going the traditional route; it was just something he had to get through to be a lawyer.

I'm digging this show but wish they would revisit the cartel nutjobs sooner rather than later. I like the legal-wrangling stuff, but I don't want this to turn into The Practice from 1998.
 
nutty_gnome said:
I like the legal-wrangling stuff, but I don't want this to turn into The Practice from 1998.
Click to expand...

I agree... BUT I needed a couple of episodes without that crazy-a$$ Tuco.

Thus far in the show my favorite parts have been the insight into the characters that we first met in BB.
In the episodes of BB, it was apparent that Tuco might not have a grasp on reality but the amount of crank that he was sucking up like a vacuum cleaner could have feasibly been the cause of his "problem"

In BCS, we can see that he is crazy, but clearly he does not need meth to get him there.
And messing with his abuela is simply a BAD IDEA.

My wife decided to watch the show so we did a marathon on Sunday afternoon and we got such a laugh out of the scene when Jimmy is bargaining and lawyering down Tuco from killing the twins and Jimmy mentions the punishment fitting the crime...
He says to Tuco "an eye for an eye" and Tuco gets this look on his face and says "So you're saying I should blind them???!!!!"
 
OK so we already know that Jimmy created "Slippin' Jimmy, the small-time hustler." We now know that Jimmy tried to re-invent himself as "James McGill, lawyer at HHM," but got shot down by the Hamlinator, and thus had to settle for being "James McGill, esq., small-time lawyer and occasional hustler."

But can we now say it was Charles, with his big settlement request that opened Jimmy's eyes to the kind of money he COULD be hustling, that TRULY sowed the seeds for "Saul Goodman, big-time hustler?" Jimmy seemed really ready to jump at the $100k offer, did you see the awe in his eyes when the $20m was mentioned?
 
I think the McGill brothers are going to lose control of their case to HHM, and that's what'll push Saul into real crime. A healthy dose of revenge.

Anyway, great episode. I really don't have much to add to the conversation this week.

As for the law degree plot hole, I have no solutions, but I would point a couple of things out:
1. People can and do pass the bar without going to law school (even if it is illegal). Take an evening and watch "Catch me if you can."
2. American Samoa is a US Territory. If they have a law school, there's a chance (maybe a good one) that states in the Continental US would acknowledge that degree. If you don't, then you're basically saying a very specific and minority subset of Americans can't practice law in your state unless they spend the money necessary to effectively study abroad. If a university in American Samoa can prove that their graduates meet a certain standard, then I would wager that federal courts would rule in favor of the Landcrabs.
3. This show does take place in the past. If there are laws in place now that would prevent Saul from taking the bar with this degree, we shouldn't assume that the same laws were in place at the time the show takes place.


For not having much to add, that's a lot of content, haha. I suppose I should point out that my law experience caps out at some graduate level law coursework, so... not a lawyer. Those are some informed guesses.
 
Barley_Bob said:
...3. This show does take place in the past. If there are laws in place now that would prevent Saul from taking the bar with this degree, we shouldn't assume that the same laws were in place at the time the show takes place...
Click to expand...

Exactly. In the past, some states allowed you to take and pass the bar and practice law without a law degree. I don't know for sure when this show takes place but judging by cell phones I'm guessing late 90s. Maybe back then, NM allowed this, so it might not have mattered where he got his degree from.

The University of American Samoa, however, is fictitious. But their Facebook page is funny!

It was mentioned in BB that he went to school there so they were kind of locked into that story.
 
hezagenius said:
The University of American Samoa, however, is fictitious. But their Facebook page is funny!

It was mentioned in BB that he went to school there so they were kind of locked into that story.
Click to expand...

Okay, fair enough. Fictitious school aside, those points are worth consideration, I think. On the other hand, it's not really a plot hole if the school is fictitious; it's just fiction.
 
Barley_Bob said:
Okay, fair enough. Fictitious school aside, those points are worth consideration, I think. On the other hand, it's not really a plot hole if the school is fictitious; it's just fiction.
Click to expand...

That's the real problem. It's not a big deal, but I'll repeat that the only State in the US where you can have a law license without a degree from an ABA accredited law school is California. And there is no such thing as an ABA accredited "distance learning" program. Yes, in the past this was different...but not in the past that is recent enough to have cell phones.

Catch Me if You Can is a great movie and a true story (more or less)...it also took place in the late 1950s and early 1960s...it was a very different world then.
 
Ridire said:
Catch Me if You Can is a great movie and a true story (more or less)...it also took place in the late 1950s and early 1960s...it was a very different world then.
Click to expand...

I literally just saw an article saying that a woman just got caught for practicing law on a forged degree... after 10years. She even made partner at her firm. So, it can happen. It's obviously rare.

It's too bad they worked themselves into a corner on this one. You would think someone would offer a professional program for law students (like a professional MBA program where it just takes longer). They could have said he graduated from somewhere else and then made the University of American Samoa a running gag.
 
Ridire said:
Night classes and correspondence courses are a world different. I was a night student at a tier one law school. My ass had to be in class every night.
Click to expand...

Sure. My point was that they could easily have just said he did night classes in this program. Done. No need for debate. No need for Landcrabs.
 
WesleyS said:
One word. Fiction.
Go Landcrabs!
Click to expand...

I agree and said wasn't a big deal. I just thought it was clumsy and awkward writing from a show that does not normally have clumsy writing. But I had forgotten that they were stuck with that story from Breaking Bad.
 
I thought about the possibility a couple episodes ago when he announced to Chuck that he had passed the bar. There was a moment where Chuck did not truly look pleased.
Then when Howard said that he and the "partners" had decided to not offer Jimmy a job, the thought reoccurred. Why would Chuck call so late at night?
 

Similar threads

Broken Crow
A product of HBT [you lot]; The FermHead. Fit it to Fermonster, Sankey...whatever..
Replies
3
Views
2K
Broken Crow
Broken Crow
Yesfan
DIY Kegmenter
Replies
3
Views
2K
Yesfan
Yesfan
bailey mountain brewer
keg shank dilemma
Replies
9
Views
1K
pvpeacock
pvpeacock
zippyclown
Remembering ismellweird this November
2 3
Replies
116
Views
9K
Kent88
Kent88
tennesseean_87
Recirc eBIAB Improvements: Whirpool Recirc, New Mill, Temp Probe, New Bag?
Replies
23
Views
3K
odie
odie

Latest posts

Back
Top