Best yeast for Mild???

[Blueflint]

I'm going to brew a Mild this weekend and still am up in the air about which yeast to use. I have both Wyeast 1968 London ESB and Wyeast 1084 Irish Ale, both already made into a starter and ready to go. So...which would be best and why? I think both would be good..........

Thanks, Tony

 

[EarlyAmateurZymurgist]

Neither strain is ideal for a mild, but my vote goes to 1968. If we are talking about a true mild, a lower attenuating is preferred to a higher attenuating strain. Sadly, neither of the two major yeast manufacturers offers a true mild yeast. However, one can get a true mild yeast on slant from Brewlab in the UK.

 

[Blueflint]

I also have WL037 Yorkshire Square if that would be better???

I intend on mashing at around 155-156 to keep a little body and not allowing it to dry out too much.

Thanks, Tony

 

[EarlyAmateurZymurgist]

That yeast strain should work well.

 

[daksin]

Literally all of those strains are perfect for a mild. I'm not sure why anybody would think they're not good. My choice would be the 1968, as it is the least attenuative of the three and will leave you with some more body/residual sweetness in your mild. Low gravity beers tend to get very dry and lack flavor as a result, and are better served (in my opinion) by a high mash temp, high percentage of specialty malts, and a low attenuation yeast.

If you're not looking for much yeast character, the Irish is the way to go, but you may want to mash a bit higher to make up for the extra attenuation. 1968 flocs very hard and leaves clear beer, which I love, but if you like the flavor of the yorkshire, go for that. Totally up to you.

 

[Cider123]

Didn't realize you were limited to 2 choices. I like my mild recipe with Wyeast 1469.

 

[Blueflint]

It isn't that I am limited to not getting something new, I just have quite a bit of 1968, 037 and 1084 on hand and I use them quite a bit.

I think I will use 1968 and I will be mashing high.

I like 1084 for it's clean malty flavors but I am afraid a mild will end up bland using it.

037 is a nice yeast but I have not used it enough to know what to expect from it.

I will be brewing this afternoon. In a few weeks, I will update my results from this combo.

Thanks, Tony

 

[EarlyAmateurZymurgist]

The problem with 1968 is that it tends to be fruity yeast. Mild is not a fruity style.

With that said, the impact of mashing temperature on final gravity is often overstated by amateur brewers. It's not that simple. Strain genetics play a greater role in the final gravity of a beer than mashing temperature. While mashing temperature does control the balance of sugars in a beer, final gravity is controlled by yeast health and genetic transcription. There are yeast strains that will stop at 1.012 just as there are yeast strains that are almost unstoppable. There is even a Saccharomyces species named Saccharomyces diastaticus that can break down starch.

All Saccharomyces species start by consuming free glucose after which they have to secrete enzymes to break the chemical bounds on more complex sugars. The limit to which a yeast strain can break down sugars more complex than glucose is encoded in its genome. For example, many amateur brewers falsely believe that the crispness found in lager is the result of cold fermentation when, in reality, it is the result of Saccharomyces pastorianus' ability to readily ferment the trisaccharide maltotriose.

 

[Cider123]

Besides mashing high, another method is to have a slightly shorter mash time.

I like 1469 because it leaves some "malt chewiness" as the wyeast description lists. I think it provides a great representation of what british ales should be.

 

[afr0byte]

The problem with 1968 is that it tends to be fruity yeast. Mild is not a fruity style.

With that said, the impact of mashing temperature on final gravity is often overstated by amateur brewers. It's not that simple. Strain genetics play a greater role in the final gravity of a beer than mashing temperature. While mashing temperature does control the balance of sugars in a beer, final gravity is controlled by yeast health and genetic transcription. There are yeast strains that will stop at 1.012 just as there are yeast strains that are almost unstoppable. There is even a Saccharomyces species named Saccharomyces diastaticus that can break down starch.

All Saccharomyces species start by consuming free glucose after which they have to secrete enzymes to break the chemical bounds on more complex sugars. The limit to which a yeast strain can break down sugars more complex than glucose is encoded in its genome. For example, many amateur brewers falsely believe that the crispness found in lager is the result of cold fermentation when, in reality, it is the result of Saccharomyces pastorianus' ability to readily ferment the trisaccharide maltotriose.

The bjcp guidelines list moderate fruityness as part of the range for Mild (with no fruity esters being on the other end of the range).

 

[Blueflint]

I got it cooled to 65 degrees last night and pitched the 1968. We'll see how it does. I will be making this several more times in the next few months fine tuning the recipe (these are small 2 3/4 gallon test batches). Once I settle in on the grain bill, I will try 1469.

Tony

 

[WDT]

Throwing my $.02 in.

I just split a 10g batch of mild and fermented one with WL002 (rumored to be the same as WY1968), and S04. The flavors are very different. Pitched at 62F and let ramp up on it's own to 68F.

The 002 is MUCH fruitier and more "english" tasting to me. The S04 accentuates the roast in the dark grains much better. The Aroma in the 002 is muted compared to the S04. All that being said, the 002 tastes great. If I ever do a split batch again i'm going to make sure to use the 002 again.

 

[cclloyd]

I use London Ale III (Wyeast 1318) for my Mild and it's medaled twice so there's that.........

 

[daksin]

Yeast dynamics aside, you can adjust the ester profile of just about any yeast with pitching rates, oxygen, and temperature. I do all of my Belgians with a saison yeast. Don't want an estery mild? Ferment on the cool side, which 1968 is just find with. I prefer a more British character in my British beers.

Just because mash temperature isn't the most important factor in body/residual sugar doesn't mean it isn't a factor. If you produce more unfermentable sugars in the mash, there will be fewer fermentable sugars for any yeast to process during fermentation.

I think EAZ's post unintentionally conflates the ability to ferment maltotriose with the ability to break down longer chain polysaccharides. If you want the lowest possible attenuation (which I do when doing very low gravity beers) from your yeast, then you should mash high.

 

[Blueflint]

Batch number one with 1968 has pretty well finished up. I will be brewing batch two this Saturday and I will try 1469 on this one. I think on batch three, I will try 1084. I am pretty close on my recipe and will be trying several yeasts.

I work with a lot of guinea pigs...lots different taste buds to try these.

Tony

 

[Qhrumphf]

I'd also suggest 1469. It's my house yeast for English beers. Period. That said, 1968 would have been my choice from the options you gave. I suppose you could work with 1084, but I wouldn't use it personally.

And a Mild may not be the fruitiest of styles, but it shouldn't be clean. It still needs to have an English yeast character.

 

[highgravitybacon]

FWIW, took home a BoS on a mild with 1968. Took home several other awards with 1469. Both are solid. I don't like 1469 in pale beers, but that's my taste.

 

[lumpher]

i really like dry s-04 in my milds

 

[badlee]

I brewed a great mild,fermented with Brett. Cust.
There were great subtle apricot/peach/pear flavours.

 

[Blueflint]

I really appreciate all the input from you guys. I will be brewing quite a few small batches (3 gallon) and only changing the yeast so see what the influences are and which ones I like the most or if there is any I don't like.

Tony

 

[DoubleRainbow]

I'm glad this thread got some attention as I too am going to give a mild a try.

 

[Blueflint]

There does seem to be a fair amount of attention to this topic so I will keep updating as I go. The base recipe I am using for my testing is a 3 gallon (1/2 batch) and is as follows:

Maris Otter 2-3/4# (78%)
Briess Carabrown 4 oz. (8%)
Briess Chocolate 350L 4 oz. (8%)
Briess Caramel 80L 2 oz. (3%)
Red Wheat Malt 2 oz. (3%)

Goldings (4.5 AAU pellets) 1/2 oz. @ 60 minutes
Goldings (4.5 AAU pellets) 1/4 oz. @ 1 minute

1.033 O.G., 15 IBU, color seems close to 25

Batch number one was fermented with 1968 between 62-64 degrees, finished in 5 days at 1.008, this was mashed at 156 for 1 hour. At 7 days I racked it into a secondary and took a sample. It was clearing quickly by this time. Flavor has a slight yeast forefront (to be expected) then into a mild malt then finishing in a roasted nut flavor. I can't wait to see how it is at 4-6 weeks.

Batch number two was started last night (running 2 days behind). Once cooled to 64 degrees, I pitched 1469 into it. I look forward to sampling it in a week.

As things progress, I will keep this updated.

The red wheat I am using is locally grown, home malted, sun dried and then oven cured at 200 degrees for 10 minutes. This contributes to a nutty flavor without being noticeable as a wheat ingredient. Red wheat has a much stronger and slightly different flavor than white wheat.

Tony

 

[Blueflint]

Batch one was bottled on 12-20. It had cleared very nicely and the previously stated yeast taste was gone. This batch has a nice center pallet of malt followed by a roasted nut finish. This batch was with Wyeast 1968 and had a O.G. of 1.035, F.G. 1.008, 3.5% ABV. Mash was 156 for 60 minutes. Beautiful dark color with red highlights. SWMBO liked this one.

Batch two was racked off the yeast cake today (9 days old), it is very clear. The flavor is malty but it lacks the roasted finish that batch one has. This batch was fermented with Wyeast 1469 between 62 and 64 degrees. Both batches had the same recipe, same water treatment. Batch two had a O.G. of 1.032, F.G. 1.007, 3.3% ABV. Mash was 158 for 60 minutes. Same color as batch one.

Today I started another batch, a slightly modified grain bill. I backed the chocolate malt down to 5% and upped the Caribrown to 10%, otherwise the same. Mash was at 158. O.G. 1.033. Once cooled and aerated, I pitched 1/2 cup of 1469 slurry into it from batch two.

I am really looking forward to trying some of these side by side. At this point, I am surprised at the roasted taste difference in the first two batches. I will see how the flavor settles out in a couple weeks and keep my notes updated.

Next I will make another batch like one and two and use Wyeast 1318.

Tony

 

[benj]

While mashing temperature does control the balance of sugars in a beer, final gravity is controlled by yeast health and genetic transcription.

I'm wondering what you think transcription has to do with attenuation.... Yes a yeasts ability to metabolize various sugars will be genetically determined, but transcription? I'm wondering if you're thinking of the various mechanisms that control gene expression, which may work by controlling transcription, translation, or even after translation is complete... there are way to many cellular processes that play a role in the process, as well as environmental factors that play a role. Mash temperature alters the environment the yeast are cultured in and will affect attenuation, as will the genetics of the strain you choose, as will the fermentation temperature etc. Saying attenuation can be attributed to genetic transcription seems like a pretty odd claim to me.

 

[DogStar]

I'll be brewing a dark mild next week. I've got some mild ale malt and I'll use Yorkshire Ale WLP037. I've never used either before but they look perfect. My target OG will be about 1037.