best way to add significant body to a stout?

[devin_mac]

i'm looking to do a sweet stout next, and am really looking for a way to add some serious body to the beer.

my last stout was an oatmeal and came out fairly thin feeling, despite a 30min steep of 1lb flaked oats, which i had thought would thicken it up a bit.

essentially, i'm looking for this brew to look and pour like used motor oil, but have a nice sweet vanilla finish (the vodka soaked vanilla beans in the secondary routine).

basic grain bill is:

5-6lb light DME (haven't decided how much booze i want in this one)
1.25lb chocolate malt
.25lb roasted barley

also planning on 8oz or so of malto-dextrine towards the end of the boil, with the intent being mainly sweetness (will have some lactose on hand at bottling if the pre-bottle sample isn't feeling sweet enough) but also i guess it might have the side benefit of adding a bit of body.

i'm looking to add a pound (or more, if i have to ) of something else to the steep. carapils, flaked barley, flaked oats. what's the trick for the thick beers?

 

[WBC]

Melanoidin malt would help.

 

[KingBrianI]

flaked barley is traditional and my suggestion. but i feel that a large part of the percieved "thickness" of a stout comes from the beer gas and stout faucet. i've also found that adjusting your water to a proper hardness really helps too. if you don't have enough carbonates in the water, the roasted barley acidifies the wort too much and the resulting stout has a twang that makes it taste less creamy.

EDIT: And to really get all the benefit out of an adjunct used to increase body, it needs to be mashed. If you could add some base malt to your steep and hold it at 154-158 for 30-60 min you would realize a much greater contribution from the adjuncts.

 

[Ølbart]

I think your method is the problem. Try doing a partial mash instead of just steeping the oats.

 

[flyangler18]

Oats needs to be mashed to get the full contribution of their mouthfeel characteristics.

This post by BierMuncher may also be of interest:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/999905-post20.html

 

[Bob]

basic grain bill is:

5-6lb light DME (haven't decided how much booze i want in this one)
1.25lb chocolate malt
.25lb roasted barley

also planning on 8oz or so of malto-dextrine towards the end of the boil, with the intent being mainly sweetness (will have some lactose on hand at bottling if the pre-bottle sample isn't feeling sweet enough) but also i guess it might have the side benefit of adding a bit of body.

i'm looking to add a pound (or more, if i have to ) of something else to the steep. carapils, flaked barley, flaked oats. what's the trick for the thick beers?

Malto-dextrine will have little impact on perceived sweetness but will enhance body and mouthfeel. Lactose will increase the perception of sweetness, too.

Thickness - body or mouthfeel - comes from many different sources. Unfermentable dextrins, long-chain sugars, proteins, fats - all these impact vollmundigkeit. That's why oats, when properly used, have such a profound impact on mouthfeel: oats are rich in protein and fats, even when malted. CaraPils is also called Dextrine malt, which gives you a clue as to why it's useful for increasing mouthfeel. Crystal malts can also provide the mouthfeel enhancement that CaraPils imparts.

In your specific instance, as an extract brewer I recommend CaraPils to improve vollmundigkeit as the flaked grains must be mashed. CaraPils isn't as effective in a steep - you only get about 25% of the effect as you'd get if you mashed it - but it will be an improvement. When mashed, the proportion of CaraPils should not exceed 5% of the grist; when steeped, 10% should provide acceptable results.

Adding malto-dextrine will acheive the same result. After all, what you're hoping to dissolve into your wort are the dextrins in CaraPils; if malto-dextrine is easier for you, use that. Me, I'd use malto-dextrin.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[devin_mac]

awesome. thanks for the suggestions. I'm clearly still learning a lot, as in my earlier adventures in brewing i didn't really take the time to learn a lot, and just threw a lot of ingredients together.

I understand that about the mashing, and actually just completed my first partial mash on Sunday when i brewed a mild brown. i imagine it went well since i nailed the OG that beersmith said i would if i hit 70% efficiency.

I'll sub out some of the DME for pale 2-row and get my mash on. now i guess the question is, what's going to give me the most bang for my buck, in terms of what the mash will get me. carapils, flaked oats, or flaked barley? All the writeups i see say that they lend "significant body" btu there doesn't seem to be a quantification.

remember, i'm looking for this to pour like used motor oil

 

[jay075j]

awesome. thanks for the suggestions. I'm clearly still learning a lot, as in my earlier adventures in brewing i didn't really take the time to learn a lot, and just threw a lot of ingredients together.

I understand that about the mashing, and actually just completed my first partial mash on Sunday when i brewed a mild brown. i imagine it went well since i nailed the OG that beersmith said i would if i hit 70% efficiency.

I'll sub out some of the DME for pale 2-row and get my mash on. now i guess the question is, what's going to give me the most bang for my buck, in terms of what the mash will get me. carapils, flaked oats, or flaked barley? All the writeups i see say that they lend "significant body" btu there doesn't seem to be a quantification.

remember, i'm looking for this to pour like used motor oil

In the spirit of homebrewing as a hobby and the art that it is, I would suggest trying multiple recipies. I'm a big believer that the best way to learn is to experiment, and screw things up (most likely many times). We can all make suggestions as to what WE think is right for you from our experiences, but we are not the ones who are going to enjoy your creation. But I'm sure if you invite us over, we will all be happy to drink all that we can get our hands on!

Once you try each of the Carapils, flaked oats and flaked barley, or any combination of the three, you will be able to quantify it much more accurately than we can explain it. And I'm sure you will have a bunch of fun running your experiment and enjoying the end result.

But if there is one piece of advice I could give you, it would be that you MAY not be able to get that "used motor oil" feel without mashing a significant amount of grains at the higher end of the spectrum (155-158). You are going to need the base malt for the proper enzymes and proteins.

Give it a shot and have fun!

 

[devin_mac]

yeah, i was planning on eventually running a batch with all three. was just curious what people thought for the first run. i'll be brewing plenty of this, i imagine. i can already imagine it's dark sweet goodness hitting my lips...

hmm, i should have thought that out a little better before i said it...

 

[devin_mac]

alrighty, this is what i've settled on, in case any responders are curious

4lb Light DME (late boil at 30 minutes)


2lb pale 2-row
2lb flaked barley
1lb chocolate malt
.25lb roasted barley

mashing those for 45 minutes (60 better?) @ 155 in about 1.75g of water (about 1.25 quarts per pound of grains)

1.5oz kent goldings for 60

2oz molasses at 5min before end of boil

and a 2L starter of White Labs English Ale - WLP002

if all goes well, beersmith tells me i'll hit an OG of 1.060 and final out at 1.019. should be tasty.

thanks for the help, folks!

 

[TimSTi]

alrighty, this is what i've settled on, in case any responders are curious

4lb Light DME (late boil at 30 minutes)


2lb pale 2-row
2lb flaked barley
1lb chocolate malt
.25lb roasted barley

mashing those for 45 minutes (60 better?) @ 155 in about 1.75g of water (about 1.25 quarts per pound of grains)

1.5oz kent goldings for 60

2oz molasses at 5min before end of boil

and a 2L starter of White Labs English Ale - WLP002

if all goes well, beersmith tells me i'll hit an OG of 1.060 and final out at 1.019. should be tasty.

thanks for the help, folks!

I'll certainly be sampling some of this Dev

 

[jay075j]

That looks great! You may want to try this with Marris Otter rather than 2 row. It will add a little more maltiness to it. But I like the way it looks!