Best Way To Add DME / LME?

[J2W2]

Hi,

I have brewed a number of beers from extract kits. These have all been "partial mash" kits which included specialty grains to steep. I just brewed my first clone beer (90 Shilling), assembling all the ingredients myself instead of in a kit. This one called for DME or LME, and I went with the 6lb of DME it called for since I'd just read DME is a better choice as it stays fresh longer.

This was the first time I'd used DME, other than the small amounts I use for a yeast starter. The recipe said to bring the wort to a boil after I'd steeped the specialty grains, then cut the heat and add the DME. I just cut the two bags open and poured them right into the kettle. That's where I ran into the first issue as the DME started clumping badly as soon as it hit the steam coming off the wort. The second issue I ran into was I had a pattern on the bottom of my kettle when I drained the wort, matching my burner stand. I can only assume that was some scorched DME, although it was a medium brown color (not black or anything).

I stirred as much as I could when I added the DME, but I have a Blichmann BoilerMaker, and between the thermometer stem and hop blocker I use, it's hard to stir the bottom of the kettle much at all. I've only had the beer kegged for a week now, but I think there's a little bit of a "burned" taste to it. I'm hoping that just some of the darker roasted grains coming through - only time will tell.

The whole process got me wondering if there is a better way to add DME or LME. I did some searches and found one post that suggested using one less gallon of water for steeping, filling a smaller pot with one gallon of the hottest tap water you have, dissolving the LME or DME in that, and then pouring that mixture into your kettle after the grains have steeped.

That got me wondering if it's really necessary to bring the wort up to a boil after steeping, before adding the DME or LME. Since the wort would probably be around 155-160 degrees after steeping, and the burner would have been off for half an hour or so, could I just add the DME or LME at that time, then heat to a boil and proceed as usual? Or is there a reason that the initial wort needs to be brought to a boil immediately after steeped the specialty grains?

I'd appreciate any advice on how you add your DME and LME. I've never had an issue with LME in the past, that I know of, even though that's the one I've always heard can scorch if you're not careful.

Thanks for your insight!

 

[NCSU_Brewer]

Disclaimer: I am still a very "green" brewer, but got good advice from a buddy who has been brewing for about a year.

My method for adding DME was as follows:

1. While bringing your water up to a boil, dump your DME into a bowl. I use a plastic mixing bowl. Pick something light enough so that you can handle it with one hand.

2. Fill a spray bottle with water. Alternatively, fill a soup bowl with water. You'll need this to suppress boilovers.

3. Get your mixing spoon. Mine is a large metal one that I got from my LHBS.

4. Once the water begins boiling, begin slowly adding the DME while stirring. I'm right-handed, so I shake the DME out of the bowl and into the pot with my left hand and stir with my right hand.

5. As soon as you start to see the potential for a boilover, stop adding, set your spoon down, and spray the boil with water. Alternatively, you can dip your fingers in the soup bowl of water and "flick" it on the pending boilover. The second method, which is what I use, probably requires you to be more vigilant.

6. Continue to add the DME while stirring. Repeat step 5 as necessary.

7. If you get clumps, stop adding DME and break them up. I usually do this by pressing them against the side of my kettle.

 

[m1batt1]

All I've ever made is DME kits. What I've found works best for me is to go ahead and heat to boil or near boil after steeping. Then I kill the burner or remove the pot from the burner and start my mixing. It'll clump but but if you pour a little bit at a time you can work out the clumps as you move along and avoid big clumps.

Whether you choose to add immediately after steeping or let it get to boil is really a personal preference I just find it dissolves a little better at the higher temps. But either option you pick you want to remove the pot from the heat source while you're adding the DME. That way if a clump makes it to the bottom you have a Chance to get it stirred up and dissolved before it can scorch.

 

[J2W2]

But either option you pick you want to remove the pot from the heat source while you're adding the DME. That way if a clump makes it to the bottom you have a Chance to get it stirred up and dissolved before it can scorch.

That was fairly easy when I started - I was using our kitchen stove and a 5-gallon pot I already had. Back then I could just slide the pot off the burner before adding the DME or LME.

It's a different story now that I have a 10-gallon pot and a natural gas burner. I usually start with 6.5 to 7 gallons of water, and I'm really not comfortable lifting that much boiling water off a burner. I have a hand-held laser temperature gauge, and I was using it to check some temperatures when I was using my immersion chiller on my last batch. Even as the thermometer on the pot said the water was down to 80 degrees, the bottom of the pot was still reading around 200, and some parts of the burner were still more than twice that. So, simply turning off the burner with my current setup does not cut the heat a lot.

1. While bringing your water up to a boil, dump your DME into a bowl. I use a plastic mixing bowl. Pick something light enough so that you can handle it with one hand.

I like this idea. I had only cut a corner off the bag, and it really clumped coming out like that. Being able to shake it out of a bowl should at least eliminate that issue.

 

[m1batt1]

That was fairly easy when I started - I was using our kitchen stove and a 5-gallon pot I already had. Back then I could just slide the pot off the burner before adding the DME or LME.

It's a different story now that I have a 10-gallon pot and a natural gas burner. I usually start with 6.5 to 7 gallons of water, and I'm really not comfortable lifting that much boiling water off a burner. I have a hand-held laser temperature gauge, and I was using it to check some temperatures when I was using my immersion chiller on my last batch. Even as the thermometer on the pot said the water was down to 80 degrees, the bottom of the pot was still reading around 200, and some parts of the burner were still more than twice that. So, simply turning off the burner with my current setup does not cut the heat a lot.

I understand both those concerns. In that case I would suggest adding post steep before you start the heat back up. It shouldn't change the flavor at all. The only thing you might get is a little darker color but that only matters if you're entering competitions really. That's just my opinion but I've done it both ways.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

If the malt extract is still in the original package it is practically sterile because of the way it is manufactured. Some of my best beers were made by adding it directly to the fermentor. It will be difficult to dissolve in the cold water, but over the course of a couple days the yeast will chew through it regardless.

Many people add most of the extract as a late addition. Once the bittering boil is over the heat is turned off and the extract is added. Stir until dissolved and then add to the fermentor.

 

[bonarek]

Personally I do lots of all-extract or partial mash brews and I usually add about 85% of my DME with just a couple minutes left in the boil and have had fine results.

I don't use LME much so can't advise on that

 

[J2W2]

Thanks for all the advice!

I've just ordered my second Ferocious IPA kit from Midwest Supplies. This is my favorite right now and the last keg went quickly. It only has four ounces of Crystal malt, and 9 lbs of LME.

I had no scorching issues adding that much LME last time, but I might try pulling a gallon or two out of the kettle as it approaches boil, dissolving the LME in that smaller batch, and then adding it back to the kettle for the full boil. The BoilerMaker has a ball valve on it, so transferring some of the hot wort to another pot would be a simple process.

As a side note, if you're using LME, soaking the jug in hot water beforehand makes it pour a lot easier. I fill my sink with the hottest water I can get out of the faucet and let the LME soak while I steep my grains. I'd also read about actually dipping the jug in the hot wort, after you've poured it out, to rinse out the remaining LME in the plastic jug. It works well, but be very careful if you do this. I wear BBQ gloves and my hands still get very hot working in the near boiling wort. I do this pre-boil, so sanitation isn't an issue.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

If the malt extract is still in the original package it is practically sterile because of the way it is manufactured. Some of my best beers were made by adding it directly to the fermentor. It will be difficult to dissolve in the cold water, but over the course of a couple days the yeast will chew through it regardless.



Many people add most of the extract as a late addition. Once the bittering boil is over the heat is turned off and the extract is added. Stir until dissolved and then add to the fermentor.

WoodlandBrew,

How does adding only part of the DME prior to the beginning of the boil effect hop utilization? If I'm brewing an IPA and add only half my DME in the beginning and half at the end, will the hop utilization be the same as adding all the DME up front.

I'm looking to brew an all extract IPA but want to hold some DME back to keep the color light.

Cheers!

 

[WoodlandBrew]

If I'm brewing an IPA and add only half my DME in the beginning and half at the end, will the hop utilization be the same as adding all the DME up front?

Mostly yes. There is anecdotal evidence that the character is different, but in terms of isomerismised alpha acids the difference is negligible.

 

[ncbrewer]

Mostly yes. There is anecdotal evidence that the character is different, but in terms of isomerismised alpha acids the difference is negligible.

The standard formulas (Tinseth and others) show hop utilization to be dependent on the boil gravity. Over the last few years, there has been some thought that this relationship might not be correct, but as far as I can tell, no alternate formulas have been proposed. Are you one of those who disagree with the formulas, and if so, have you found any alternative formulas?

 

[WoodlandBrew]

The standard formulas (Tinseth and others) show hop utilization to be dependent on the boil gravity. Over the last few years, there has been some thought that this relationship might not be correct, but as far as I can tell, no alternate formulas have been proposed. Are you one of those who disagree with the formulas, and if so, have you found any alternative formulas?

What Tinseth has come up with mostly agrees with Malowicki's Thesis on the subject if you drop what Tinseth calls "The bigness" factor.

Here is my summary I put together for the HBT main page:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/bittering-hops-in-15-minutes.html

If you can find this paper, it's worth a read. The abstract summarizes his finding well, but the whole paper is great.
Malowicki, Mark G., and Thomas H. Shellhammer. "Isomerization and degradation kinetics of hop (Humulus lupulus) acids in a model wort-boiling system." Journal of agricultural and food chemistry 53.11 (2005): 4434-4439.

 

[kristiismean]

For LME I kill heat, and use a wooden spoon. Break the seal and start pouring, while letting it "wrap" around the wooden spoon. I pour more or less depending on how the LME is dissolving. after most of it's out, I use a ONE PIECE silicone spatula (the silicone covers the handle, so there is no room for bacteria to form) and scrape out as much as I can.

 

[thespiff]

Personally, I don't turn off the burner for DME, but I do for LME. I think the liquid stuff is much more prone to sink to the bottom and burn than dry. I have noticed some barely visible burner-stand-shaped patterns on the bottom of my kettle on several batches, but not enough to worry me, and nothing like the big ugly burnt caramel spot that I made on my first boil (after which I learned how to stir).

I keep the water moving while I add Extract, and I add it slowly over the course of a few minutes.

I weigh out my DME in a plastic beer pitcher that I liberated from an Oktoberfest years ago and pour it into the kettle from there. It's light and has a handle, it works great. I can even dip it in the kettle and swirl some water around in it to get the last sticky bits out of the bottom.

For LME, I try to adjust recipes to use LME in full-container volumes and then top up with DME as needed, so I usually don't need to weigh it out. The tall plastic jugs are easy to pour and you can swirl some wort in them to get the dregs from the bottom. Metal cans suck though, those get transferred into my pitcher. My first batch, I dipped a Munton's can in the wort to get the last of it out, and ended up spending the next 15 minutes fishing disintegrated label pieces out of 6 gallons of boiling wort. Cans suck.

 

[drlars]

I'm a partial-masher. My beers were always turning out darker than I wanted until I started adding a portion of DME late (with 10 min or so left in the boil) and also making sure to turn the burner off for a bit before adding it (this is probably more of an issue with LME than DME, but I take no chances).

Some clumping at the edges of the DME bag is normal. I try to shake off as much as I can, but a little bit is acceptable loss.

I've also never had a problem with hop utilization, but I also do a partial boil. To my mind, the greater IBUs gained by the the higher gravity boil should somewhat be mitigated by diluting it with water in the fermentor.

In any event, I have my partial boil parameters plugged into Brewers Friend, so I am assuming the program may be making the necessary corrections (can anyone confirm this?). Never had an issue with any sort of unexpected bitterness levels.

 

[fc36]

If the malt extract is still in the original package it is practically sterile because of the way it is manufactured. Some of my best beers were made by adding it directly to the fermentor. It will be difficult to dissolve in the cold water, but over the course of a couple days the yeast will chew through it regardless.

Woodland, to repeat, you're saying that you add the DME directly to the fermenter without dissolving it in water? When do you typically do that? Do you add before or during fermentation to the cooled wort? Can you add it dry to an active fermentation and not stir to dissolve it?

I ask because it was only my second batch on my new BIAB setup and I missed my OG by 26 points. I'm still dialing that system in and getting used to the difference in technique and efficiency. I already added my yeast to my batch last night and it was rolling as of this morning. I thought I would be ok with it, but now I'm thinking I'd really like to get those extra grav points without adding anymore liquid because my fermenter won't have much head room left.

Should I wait until primary ferm calms down a little and then add as dry powder? Or can I add right away tonight just 24 hours in? I don't really want to stir it, but how will the yeast react to straight up clumps of DME. Haha.

 

[rupert130]

Adding during active fermentation is probably preferable, as it will mix into solution faster.