Best NEIPA hop combos

[anteater8]

Do you mind sharing the Trillium Melcher St recipe you use with CTZ?

Yep here you go: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/trilium-melcher-street-clone.582962/

I don't know why I don't brew this one more. Maybe it doesn't sound quite as exciting as something with all Citra, Mosaic and Galaxy... but its made some of the best NEIPAs I've brewed and you save a decent amount of money by using Columbus.

 

[popquizkid]

Yep here you go: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/trilium-melcher-street-clone.582962/

I don't know why I don't brew this one more. Maybe it doesn't sound quite as exciting as something with all Citra, Mosaic and Galaxy... but its made some of the best NEIPAs I've brewed and you save a decent amount of money by using Columbus.

That recipe is great for experimenting. Keep the grain bill / CTZ part as a base and then switch up the dry hop(s). Just brewed it this weekend with Vic Secret per your recommendation.

 

[anteater8]

That recipe is great for experimenting. Keep the grain bill / CTZ part as a base and then switch up the dry hop(s). Just brewed it this weekend with Vic Secret per your recommendation.

Totally agree! Expect longer conditioning time than normal though, it took 3 weeks after kegging to hit its stride. Vic Secret is super potent, but it was definitely worth the wait.

 

[balrog]

1 Citra, Mosaic, Amarillo, Galaxy

What absolute amounts and when with this combo, if you don't mind sharing?

 

[Clyde McCoy]

Yep here you go: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/trilium-melcher-street-clone.582962/

I don't know why I don't brew this one more. Maybe it doesn't sound quite as exciting as something with all Citra, Mosaic and Galaxy... but its made some of the best NEIPAs I've brewed and you save a decent amount of money by using Columbus.

Would it be a bad idea to reduce the hot-side hop additions?

Rather than:

Hops:
.5oz Columbus @ 60min
1oz Columbus @ 10min
3oz Columbus @ FO, steep for 30 mins

1.5oz Columbus Dry Hop
6oz YOUR_HOP_HERE Dry Hop

How about:

Hops:
0.5oz Columbus @ 60min

1.5oz Columbus Dry Hop
6oz YOUR_HOP_HERE Dry Hop

 

[anteater8]

What absolute amounts and when with this combo, if you don't mind sharing?

Happy to share, this ended up being one of my all time favorites and scored a 42.5/50 in a local competition.

6.25 lb 2 row
6.25 lb Golden Promise
3 lb Flaked Oats
0.75 lb Wheat
0.3 lb Crystal 15

0.7 oz Warrior 60 min
3 oz Citra whirlpool (30 min 170 degrees)
3 oz Mosaic whirlpool (30 min 170 degrees)
3.9 oz Citra dry hop
3.1 oz Amarillo dry hop
1 oz Galaxy dry hop
(28 IBU from boil, ~50 IBU including whirlpool)

Yeast nutrient 10 min

Imperial Juice Gen 2

 

[anteater8]

Would it be a bad idea to reduce the hot-side hop additions?

Rather than:

Hops:
.5oz Columbus @ 60min
1oz Columbus @ 10min
3oz Columbus @ FO, steep for 30 mins

1.5oz Columbus Dry Hop
6oz YOUR_HOP_HERE Dry Hop

How about:

Hops:
0.5oz Columbus @ 60min

1.5oz Columbus Dry Hop
6oz YOUR_HOP_HERE Dry Hop

Honestly I wouldn't mess with the recipe based on the results I've had. The Columbus adds a really nice dank base to the flavor. My comment about longer conditioning time is due to the huge Vic Secret dry hop. When I've used Citra or Mosaic its ready in 2 weeks, with the more potent stuff like Galaxy or Vic Secret it can take 3+ weeks.

 

[popquizkid]

Alright so trying to go through my hops stash before ordering anything more. I typically lean heavily on blends containing Citra and Idaho7, and since I finished those off did Vic Secret/CTZ. Looking for a suggestion for the next beer . I was thinking Galaxy, Strata, CTZ but I am open to some suggestions. There are a number of these that I have never used before so not sure how to blend them (Riawak, Motueka, Strata) This my inventory of hops that I am looking at using:

8 oz Amarillo
2 oz Citra LupuLN2 (Cryo)
12 oz CTZ
16 oz Galaxy
2 oz Mosaic LupuLN2 (Cryo)
8 oz Motueka
6 oz Nelson Sauvin
16 oz Riwaka
8 oz Strata
8 oz Vic Secret

 

[Genuine]

I'll have to give CTZ in the whirlpool a try. I've stuck to 2oz each of Citra, Mosaic, Amarillo and 1oz of Centennial in the whirl pool and then switching up the dry hops.

 

[Dgallo]

Alright so trying to go through my hops stash before ordering anything more. I typically lean heavily on blends containing Citra and Idaho7, and since I finished those off did Vic Secret/CTZ. Looking for a suggestion for the next beer . I was thinking Galaxy, Strata, CTZ but I am open to some suggestions. There are a number of these that I have never used before so not sure how to blend them (Riawak, Motueka, Strata) This my inventory of hops that I am looking at using:

8 oz Amarillo
2 oz Citra LupuLN2 (Cryo)
12 oz CTZ
16 oz Galaxy
2 oz Mosaic LupuLN2 (Cryo)
8 oz Motueka
6 oz Nelson Sauvin
16 oz Riwaka
8 oz Strata
8 oz Vic Secret

You have a nice reserve of hops. I just recently did a TIPA with Riwaka, Nelson, Citra cryo, and Columbus which came out to be in my top 5 combos. Hotside was 3:1:1 Columbus, Citra, Riwaka. Dry hop was 3:2:1 Riwaka, Nelson, Citra. Just one of those combos that are complex. Great fruit notes, earth, and dankness

 

[popquizkid]

You have a nice reserve of hops. I just recently did a TIPA with Riwaka, Nelson, Citra cryo, and Columbus which came out to be in my top 5 combos. Hotside was 3:1:1 Columbus, Citra, Riwaka. Dry hop was 3:2:1 Riwaka, Nelson, Citra. Just one of those combos that are complex. Great fruit notes, earth, and dankness

Well your Idaho 7 / Citra recommendation a while back was spot on so this might be where I go with this.

So Riwaka was one hop I was not sure where go with it except for pairing it with Nelson so I guess my instincts were right!

 

[ttuato]

Alright so trying to go through my hops stash before ordering anything more. I typically lean heavily on blends containing Citra and Idaho7, and since I finished those off did Vic Secret/CTZ. Looking for a suggestion for the next beer . I was thinking Galaxy, Strata, CTZ but I am open to some suggestions. There are a number of these that I have never used before so not sure how to blend them (Riawak, Motueka, Strata) This my inventory of hops that I am looking at using:

8 oz Amarillo
2 oz Citra LupuLN2 (Cryo)
12 oz CTZ
16 oz Galaxy
2 oz Mosaic LupuLN2 (Cryo)
8 oz Motueka
6 oz Nelson Sauvin
16 oz Riwaka
8 oz Strata
8 oz Vic Secret

Here is my suggestion based on what you have
Whirlpool: Motueka, CTZ, Strata (equal parts)
Dry Hop: Citra Cryo, Mosaic Cryo, Riwaka (1:1:2 - so equates to equal parts using pellets)

Sidebar - Citra, I7, and Bravo or Simcoe (all three equal parts) is the absolute best whirlpool blend I have found. Amazing citrus/tropical/subtle dank base that compliments without overpowering any dry hop that I have tried.

 

[medic_35057]

I'm looking at citra in the boil and then summit and hallertqu blanc in the dry hop.

 

[medic_35057]

I'm looking at citra in the boil and then summit and hallertau blanc in the dry hop.

 

[popquizkid]

Here is my suggestion based on what you have
Whirlpool: Motueka, CTZ, Strata (equal parts)
Dry Hop: Citra Cryo, Mosaic Cryo, Riwaka (1:1:2 - so equates to equal parts using pellets)

Sidebar - Citra, I7, and Bravo or Simcoe (all three equal parts) is the absolute best whirlpool blend I have found. Amazing citrus/tropical/subtle dank base that compliments without overpowering any dry hop that I have tried.

Next hop order will have Citra, I7, and Simcoe in it so I will try that in the WP with a Citra/I7 dry hop in a future brew.

This combo above also looks interesting. Just curious -- why Motueka in the Whirlpool only? Based on good experience using it there? I am becoming more interested in using certain hops in WP vs Dry Hop. My favorite commerical beer recently was a Citra / Motueka beer that was just fantastic. Tropical fruit, orange, a little dank, and a nice lime zing that made it so easy to drink. Assumed the lime came from Motueka in the dry hop, but honestly have no idea as I have never used it.

 

[Clyde McCoy]

Looking to get input on potential hop combinations. I'm working with:

Vic Secret
Citra
El Dorado
Mosaic
Moteuka
Nelson
Galaxy

Of course these combinations are quite popular:

Citra/Galaxy
Citra/Mosaic

I was thinking of trying something like:

Citra/Moteuka
El Dorado/Moteuka
Vic Secret/Mosaic
Nelson/Galaxy

Other recommendations are welcome...

Edit - Hill Farmstead has tried:

Nelson/Moteuka
Nelson/Citra

 

[couchsending]

Looking to get input on potential hop combinations. I'm working with:

Vic Secret
Citra
El Dorado
Mosaic
Moteuka
Nelson
Galaxy

Of course these combinations are quite popular:

Citra/Galaxy
Citra/Mosaic

I was thinking of trying something like:

Citra/Moteuka
El Dorado/Moteuka
Vic Secret/Mosaic
Nelson/Galaxy

Other recommendations are welcome...

Edit - Hill Farmstead has tried:

Nelson/Moteuka
Nelson/Citra

Of all those I’ve never tried/had/seen El Dorado/Motueka. All other combos are great.

Nelson/Moasaic is fantastic

I’d try El Dorado/Vic Secret. Both a known for being very pineapple forward hops.

Motueka can suck however. The likelihood of it being good isn’t that great, at least in my experience. Hopefully yours is better. I haven’t ordered any in a while cause I got dirt/grass from it too many times. It seems NZ has come a long ways in a short time when it comes to improving their hop farming and processing practices and equipment. Might have to revisit the 2020 harvest.

 

[Clyde McCoy]

Of all those I’ve never tried/had/seen El Dorado/Motueka. All other combos are great.

Nelson/Moasaic is fantastic

I’d try El Dorado/Vic Secret. Both a known for being very pineapple forward hops.

Motueka can suck however. The likelihood of it being good isn’t that great, at least in my experience. Hopefully yours is better. I haven’t ordered any in a while cause I got dirt/grass from it too many times. It seems NZ has come a long ways in a short time when it comes to improving their hop farming and processing practices and equipment. Might have to revisit the 2020 harvest.

Have you had success with >2 hop combinations?

 

[ttuato]

Next hop order will have Citra, I7, and Simcoe in it so I will try that in the WP with a Citra/I7 dry hop in a future brew.

This combo above also looks interesting. Just curious -- why Motueka in the Whirlpool only? Based on good experience using it there? I am becoming more interested in using certain hops in WP vs Dry Hop. My favorite commerical beer recently was a Citra / Motueka beer that was just fantastic. Tropical fruit, orange, a little dank, and a nice lime zing that made it so easy to drink. Assumed the lime came from Motueka in the dry hop, but honestly have no idea as I have never used it.

Motueka is the heaviest hitter for lime of all the hops I have tried. In the dry hop, in my experience, the lime can be over powering - even alongside mosaic & galaxy (similar to sabro with wood flavor). It has its place but not on the cold side for me (except my quarantine beer I just brewed-pilsner w/ motueka dry hop - aka corona style beer)

BUT on the hot side in the whirlpool - Motueka is a star. It has the highest geraniol of anything (except the neomexicanus varieties like sabro, but no "baggage" flavors like neomex). This geraniol saturates the wort and contributes a boost to the biotransformation to beta citronellol. (Geraniol concentration is less common than linalool which is abundant in all new world hops). The beta citronellol is what you want in NEIPAs.

 

[ttuato]

Have you had success with >2 hop combinations?

Have you had success with >2 hop combinations?

Absolutely - this is my NHC entry. Best beer I ever brewed out of 100+ NEIPAs

WP: Bravo, Citra, I7
DH: Citra, Galaxy, Mosaic, Bru-1, Strata

 

[ttuato]

Absolutely - this is my NHC entry. (That sadly wont be judged ) Best beer I ever brewed out of 100+ NEIPAs

WP: Bravo, Citra, I7
DH: Citra, Galaxy, Mosaic, Bru-1, Strata

View attachment 671884

 

[Clyde McCoy]

Absolutely - this is my NHC entry. Best beer I ever brewed out of 100+ NEIPAs

WP: Bravo, Citra, I7
DH: Citra, Galaxy, Mosaic, Bru-1, Strata

Looks great! What quantities of these hops are you using in the WP/DH?

Re your comment on Moteuka: would you avoid using in entirely in the DH, even at a low ratio?

 

[ttuato]

Absolutely can use Motueka in DH - I prefer in low quantity though so that that it blends. In a six gal batch I typically use 9-10oz pellets, for motueka I would use 1.5-2oz of the blend.


NHC Entry
Boil: None
WP: 3oz each: Citra, Bravo, I7 180* for 30min (65IBUs)
DH - soft crash to 58* 24hrs, add hops keep at 58* 24hrs, cold crash to 36* for 48hrs then transfer

• 1oz Citro CRYO
• 1oz Mosaic CRYO
• 4oz Galaxy
• 2oz Strata
• 2oz Bru-1

I went slightly heavier than normal in dryhop - Taking into account that Cryo is double regular pellets this equated to 12oz total or 2oz/gal. In my experience 4oz galaxy is minimum needed to boost the mouthfeel by way of the polyphenols (I think that the cause? - Also I never get hop burn from Galaxy when soft crashing first). I wanted that mouthfeel and since Galaxy is a top 5 hop for me, I just added the other four from my top five list and went essentially equal parts.

Yeast: Barbarian (Conan)

Malt:
75% GP
11.5% Flaked Oats
5.8% Chit malt
5.8% Flaked Barley
2.2% Honey malt

I am not exaggerating - this recipe is a "whale" and can stand up to anything out there.

 

[MrPowers]

Best NEIPA hop combo's I've tried so far, in order of preference:

Galaxy/Columbus
Enigma Single Hop (would also go well with columbus)
Mosaic/Simcoe/Amarillo
Citra/Apollo

 

[jturman35]

Absolutely can use Motueka in DH - I prefer in low quantity though so that that it blends. In a six gal batch I typically use 9-10oz pellets, for motueka I would use 1.5-2oz of the blend.


NHC Entry
Boil: None
WP: 3oz each: Citra, Bravo, I7 180* for 30min (65IBUs)
DH - soft crash to 58* 24hrs, add hops keep at 58* 24hrs, cold crash to 36* for 48hrs then transfer

• 1oz Citro CRYO
• 1oz Mosaic CRYO
• 4oz Galaxy
• 2oz Strata
• 2oz Bru-1

I went slightly heavier than normal in dryhop - Taking into account that Cryo is double regular pellets this equated to 12oz total or 2oz/gal. In my experience 4oz galaxy is minimum needed to boost the mouthfeel by way of the polyphenols (I think that the cause? - Also I never get hop burn from Galaxy when soft crashing first). I wanted that mouthfeel and since Galaxy is a top 5 hop for me, I just added the other four from my top five list and went essentially equal parts.

Yeast: Barbarian (Conan)

Malt:
75% GP
11.5% Flaked Oats
5.8% Chit malt
5.8% Flaked Barley
2.2% Honey malt

I am not exaggerating - this recipe is a "whale" and can stand up to anything out there.

Making sure I understand you. Your doing 9oz whirlpool and 10oz dry hop in a 6gal batch?

 

[ttuato]

Making sure I understand you. Your doing 9oz whirlpool and 10oz dry hop in a 6gal batch?

Correct. I am usually around 6.7% ABV - 9oz, but my efficiency is higher or yeast are hungrier and ABV hits 7% I will add another ounce to the dryhop.

 

[jturman35]

Do you think because your adding hops at 58deg it takes more to get the same affect at 68deg? I’m just curious because the only time I dry hopped cool they all went straight to the bottom of my conical and the beer came out with absolutely no aroma. Bitterness was spot on but had aroma of a Blonde Ale.

Now I’m gun shy of dry hopping at cold temperatures. There is always a possibility something in my process/recipe was flawed but I did a closed transfer.


I dry hopped with

3oz Motueka
2oz Simcoe
1oz Sabro

 

[couchsending]

Do you think because your adding hops at 58deg it takes more to get the same affect at 68deg? I’m just curious because the only time I dry hopped cool they all went straight to the bottom of my conical and the beer came out with absolutely no aroma. Bitterness was spot on but had aroma of a Blonde Ale.

Now I’m gun shy of dry hopping at cold temperatures. There is always a possibility something in my process/recipe was flawed but I did a closed transfer.


I dry hopped with

3oz Motueka
2oz Simcoe
1oz Sabro

It was not the temp of the beer that caused that. I dry hop at 58 all the time and have no issues.

 

[ttuato]

Do you think because your adding hops at 58deg it takes more to get the same affect at 68deg? I’m just curious because the only time I dry hopped cool they all went straight to the bottom of my conical and the beer came out with absolutely no aroma. Bitterness was spot on but had aroma of a Blonde Ale.

Now I’m gun shy of dry hopping at cold temperatures. There is always a possibility something in my process/recipe was flawed but I did a closed transfer.


I dry hopped with

3oz Motueka
2oz Simcoe
1oz Sabro

Dont fear the hops dropping - they always drop regardless of temp. (See attached 76* on left, 36* on the right). Extraction of the compounds continue even while at the bottom because the liquid is still in contact with the hop material. Similar to @couchsending I have been dry hopping at this temp for over a year. Many pros do as well, and is very common in HBT - see Janish book, Stan H, Probrewer forum for more details on the "why" dry hopping at 58* is good idea.

If I were to guess oxidation is what caused the lack of hop character or old/oxidized hops. Did the beer have hop character the day you transferred and it went away? If so, then it was for sure oxidation. You mentioned a closed transfer that is only part of the equation.

• Was the keg purged with ferm gases or full or liquid and pushed out? If not, the keg had oxygen in it...
• How were the hops added? Did you drop through top while applying gas? (Less oxidation risk) Or did you just open the conical and drop them in? (High oxidation risk after FG). (My process for adding dry hops here:
• https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/no-oxygen-dry-hopping.663500/page-11
• Did you discard the first few ounces from the transfer line before attaching to the keg? The transfer line has oxygen in it.
• Do you have an inline filter in transfer line? (Dont do this - impossible to remove ALL air)
• Are all of the connections in transfer line tighten with clamps and did you use pliers to tighten hose to ball lock connect? (Venturi effect can happen on microscopic level)
• Is your transfer hose beverage line or silicone? (Silicone is highly permeable only use on hotside of brewery)

If all of the above were done, then likely bad hops. If not either of those then I am at a loss...

 

[jturman35]

I’m going to give cool hopping another shot on my next batch. I just didn’t have a good experience. This was also the only time I waited until the end of ferm and no bio hop addition. Beer was great but absolutely zero aroma. I also only went like 36hrs on the hops. I have done many NEIPA’s where I opened the conical twice throw hops in also even hopped in the keg. Always purge with co2 after opening.

I have yet to figure out a sound proof way of keg hopping in a 100% oxygen free keg and for this reason I’m trying to get away from it altogether. Any time I did multiply dry hop additions I always had tons of aroma.

I agree with you on the filter screen causing o2 during transfer. The last and only time I did this the beer came out looking more oxidized than previous batches.