Berliner Weisse Question - Help!

[Zeitgeistler]

Hey guys, first post here. I am a new brewer who loves sour beers - did a few extract IPAs and pales, and then wanted to get into BIAB all grain. I researched and read a bunch of recipes, souring methods and processes for brewing a Berliner. Anyway - I won't bore you with the details, but I had a question for those who have experience with this style. I bottle condition in bombers and couldnt wait to sample my latest experiment. I cracked one open after 1 week in the bottle (I know, waaaay too early) just to see how it was coming along. It was tart, crisp, and delicious with no off-flavors that I could perceive, but it is an utter wheat bomb on the nose. Not in a bad way, just a very grainy, wheaty, almost cereal-like (think Cheerios) aroma. Will this diminish in time in the bottle? I've sampled a number of berliners from craft brewers and can't recall encountering this level of wheatiness. Again, its not bad (from my perspective, at least), just wondering if you guys have experienced this as well.

Vitals:
50% German Pils
50% White Wheat

No hops, no brett.

Lacto starter from probiotics - low gravity DME fermented until pH 3.7

Mashed at 150 for 60 min. Boiled for 15 min, Cooled to 110, pitched starter, kept around 100 for 3 days and took serial pH readings until 3.7

OG 1.031

Boiled for 10 min to kill lacto, cooled, and pitched WY1007 German Ale. 5 day fermentation to FG 1.008


Thanks - just wanted to get some input/see if I maybe screwed up along the way

 

[Morrey]

I use 50/50 wheat to pils for my kettle sours too. I like my beers sour so I bring to 3.2 ph before boiling. The wheat forward profile may diminish in time, but don't know what level it will settle off at. Full carb volumes may also help develop the roundness of your young BW.

Personally, I think a lowered ph level makes the wheat less dominate. I do lightly hop and shoot for 8 IBU with a gentle hop like Saaz during my boil which also helps tone down the wheat forward profile. You almost cant tell the hop is there but it adds a finishing roundness to the beer.

Everyone has their own way of doing things. I experimented until I hit the notes that suited me. Your OG seems a shade on the low side but does sneak in at the beginning level of style standards. But, this is a matter of choice for a low ABV beer as a BW. I increased my ABV after starting low and found the wheat became less dominate. With short boil times as you did, check your water volumes and low evaporation losses carefully to adjust your OG levels. I like my sours to begin around 1.040 maybe a shade higher and finish around 1.010. YMMV of course.

 

[Whm5018]

It sounds to me like tetrahydropyridine(THP). This will produce the "Cheerios" off-flavor in sour beers. It should age out over time. Here is some info from the Milk the Funk wiki:
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Tetrahydropyridine

 

[Zaxx92]

I'm at the same point here with mine. Anyone comment on reasons to *not* boil and kill the lacto? Will it just keep souring in the bottle if you don't kill it off?

Thanks,

-Zac

Boiled for 10 min to kill lacto, cooled, and pitched WY1007 German Ale. 5 day fermentation to FG 1.008

 

[Zeitgeistler]

You can nix the 2nd boil if you prefer - I just wanted to keep my clean equipment clean and not introduce bugs into a clean setup that may be more difficult to control.

BTW - its been about 1 month since I bottle, the wheatiness has diminished considereably. The beer tastes amazing - I'm brewing it again tomorrow, this time with an oat addition.

Thanks for the help, dudes.

 

[Whm5018]

Glad to help. I just brewed a quick sour with 2-row and 15% oats. It turned out great. The oats really came thru. Which probiotics did you use in the starter? How long did you leave the starter before pitching? Did you decant the lacro starter?

Anyone comment on reasons to *not* boil and kill the lacto? Will it just keep souring in the bottle if you don't kill it off?

I personally boil a second time to kill the lacto to protect my clean beer equipment. Theres no reason you cant skip it. Eventually the lacto will stop working. If the ph gets to low or the abv gets too high. Or if its not a perticularly hardy strain. In that case i would probably pitch sach before Ive reached desired final acidity to give a sach a chance to gain a foothold before the ph gets too low. I find my post souring sach fermentations to be way more sluggish.

 

[Zeitgeistler]

Glad to help. I just brewed a quick sour with 2-row and 15% oats. It turned out great. The oats really came thru. Which probiotics did you use in the starter? How long did you leave the starter before pitching? Did you decant the lacro starter?




I use these: http://www.target.com/p/ultimate-fl...uF8zcWXa1zM-X7pySB1ewaAqU-8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds
They contain multiple lacto strains. I generally let the starter cook for 48 hrs before pitching (this gets me to around pH 3.7 with 4 capsules). I didnt decant, but I may next time. I use 50 grams of wheat DME and 400ml of water or apple juice for the starter itself.