Berliner Weiss

[erockdoc]

Hey all, I'll be brewing this in the next week or so. Since I like a tart berliner weiss, I am going to take 23-30% of the grains and do a sour mash for a couple days prior to brew day (this in addition to doing a lacto split batch, as described in the recipe).

I will be doing 5 gallons, and will likely up the hops a bit. I'll be shooting for 3-4% abv.

I'll let you know how it goes!

 

[Haputanlas]

Hey all, I'll be brewing this in the next week or so. Since I like a tart berliner weiss, I am going to take 23-30% of the grains and do a sour mash for a couple days prior to brew day (this in addition to doing a lacto split batch, as described in the recipe).

I will be doing 5 gallons, and will likely up the hops a bit. I'll be shooting for 3-4% abv.

I'll let you know how it goes!

Looking forward to hearing the outcome of your sour mash.

 

[Haputanlas]

Starting my sour mash today.

I'll post the results and hopefully pics soon.

 

[Haputanlas]

Setup inside my chest freezer. These containers allow the mash tun to stay higher up so it's easier for me to open up and stick my nose in every now and then.

Picture of the mash in the mash tun in the chest freezer in my garage in my house

Terrible pic of me adding a CO2 blanket to the mash

I plan on keeping this mash between 115 and 120. I'll check on it every 8 hours or so until the PH reaches roughly 3.5-3.8 (And tastes sour enough).

Hopefully I did a good enough job to keep the nasties out.

 

[Haputanlas]

Just did a PH reading after about 14 hours and says it's already at 3.8. However, that seems a little too soon.

After tasting the wort, it has a slight sour character and still really clean. Probably needs at least another 24 hours or so.

 

[Haputanlas]

Because I set my chest freezer to 115 F, My sour mash hasn't dropped much below 119-120. I was reading that anything above 122 can ward off Acetobacter, however it could stun the Lacto. I'm just hoping that 120ish isn't harmful to lacto and produce off-flavors.

Anyone know of off-flavors caused by stressed lacto?

BTW: I'm trying to keep the mash above 112 to keep Clostridium butyricum out of the picture. I read this somewhere from BYO, but don't know whether or not it's accurate.

 

[Haputanlas]

After 29 hours, the wort tastes very nice and sour! Much cleaner than I was expecting based on so many other articles and other people's experiences. The smell is pretty good as well.

The gods must be on my side for this brew (Crossing my fingers).

 

[porterguy]

This sounds very tasty and tempting. I haven't ever done a sour, so I'm looking forward to hearing how this turns out.

 

[erockdoc]

So my sour mash didn't hold its temperature very well. I just checked it after 24 hrs and it is at 85 deg. I know you are supposed to keep the mash above 100, but how bad is it if it goes down to 85? I added a hot water infusion to bring it back up.

 

[Haputanlas]

So my sour mash didn't hold its temperature very well. I just checked it after 24 hrs and it is at 85 deg. I know you are supposed to keep the mash above 100, but how bad is it if it goes down to 85? I added a hot water infusion to bring it back up.

It's not necessarily bad. However, if you keep the temp that low, Clostridium and Acetobacter will likely become active. I'd try to get it back to 118 - 120ish.

I kept my sour mash at 118 for the entire 76 hours and it was really clean with a nice sour note.

 

[Haputanlas]

My brew day yesterday was very successful. I'm very happy that my first sour mash turned out so well.

The mash ended up at a PH of 3.6. Even though it's got a nice sour note to it, I may have to make it a little bit more sour next time. I just didn't want to push my luck and leave the mash going any longer.

Based on what I tasted going into the fermenter, I think this is going to be a great beer! Very exciting!

 

[Haputanlas]

I hadn't cleaned my mash yet (Which still has a lot of sparge water in it), and it had some unbelievable activity going on. A very strange pellicle with the liquid appearing to be boiling (Much more vigorous than yeast).

I'll post a video later today if I have the time.

Also, I've read that a lot of people are concerned that the sac strains might have an issue fermenting at low PH levels. I can show that my US-05 is fermenting like crazy right now with a PH that started at 3.6. This doesn't mean the attenuation will still be high, however it seems to be working just fine.

 

[Hanso]

Wyeast 1007 does well in low pH. Used it in my berliner and turned out great.

 

[erockdoc]

My brew day went well. I did a mini-sour mash (1.5 lbs) for 2 days. Brewed as directed in this recipe, adding the sour mash in right before sparging. I then boiled for 5 minutes just to make sure everything from the sour mash was nice and dead. Pitched into 2 separate fermenters, one with wyeast lacto starter and one with brett c. starter.

Fermentation took off with a bang. Both lacto and brett fermented like crazy for the first 12 hours. After 24 hours the airlocks are showing almost no bubbling.

Is this normal? I am doing a 5 gal. batch, not 10. O.G 1.038. I am surprised fermentation has slowed down so quickly....

Also, I have learned that cheap ph strips aren't worth the paper they are printed on. They gave a reading of 6 in every liquid I tried them in. The sour mash had a very distinct smell and taste, so I am positive the ph was below 6!

 

[erockdoc]

The two batches (Brett and lacto) have been fermenting over a week now. Took a sample from each, Brett gravity is 1.003, lacto is 1.008, so I'm happy. Both taste great, with very minor sour flavor from in the Brett from the mini-sour mash I did. The lacto was surprisingly tart! Tastes like a full on lambic. Really looking forward to this beer!

 

[Haputanlas]

The two batches (Brett and lacto) have been fermenting over a week now. Took a sample from each, Brett gravity is 1.003, lacto is 1.008, so I'm happy. Both taste great, with very minor sour flavor from in the Brett from the mini-sour mash I did. The lacto was surprisingly tart! Tastes like a full on lambic. Really looking forward to this beer!

Glad to hear it!

What temp are you fermenting the lacto portion at? Also what was your temp for the sour mash?

 

[erockdoc]

Glad to hear it!

What temp are you fermenting the lacto portion at? Also what was your temp for the sour mash?

Both batches are fermenting at ~75, and were probably closer to 80 during peak fermentation (which for me was the first 12 hours). Doing the lacto and brett starters like in the recipe was a really good idea.

My sour mash temps were low. After 24 hours the temp had dropped to about 85, so I did a hot water infusion to bring them back up to 115-120 ish. In total I let the sour mash go for about 36 hours.

I wish I could report a ph on the sour mash, but my damn ph strips kept reading 6 no matter what I put them in.

 

[Haputanlas]

Both batches are fermenting at ~75, and were probably closer to 80 during peak fermentation (which for me was the first 12 hours). Doing the lacto and brett starters like in the recipe was a really good idea.

My sour mash temps were low. After 24 hours the temp had dropped to about 85, so I did a hot water infusion to bring them back up to 115-120 ish. In total I let the sour mash go for about 36 hours.

I wish I could report a ph on the sour mash, but my damn ph strips kept reading 6 no matter what I put them
in.

Here's a digital PH meter for$11 shipped for free. It's absolutely fantastic for the price. I've confirmed with other more expensive meters that it's very accurate.

I've used it in about 4 batches so far without any problems.


http://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-Digital-PH-Meter-Tester+2-Pouches-Of-Calibration-p-17850.html


Sure, it's from China, but it shipped quickly and gets the job done way better than strips.

 

[erockdoc]

Here's a digital PH meter for$11 shipped for free. It's absolutely fantastic for the price. I've confirmed with other more expensive meters that it's very accurate.

I've used it in about 4 batches so far without any problems.

http://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-Digital-PH-Meter-Tester+2-Pouches-Of-Calibration-p-17850.html

Sure, it's from China, but it shipped quickly and gets the job done way better than strips.

Nice, that's cheaper then the dang strips!

 

[IslandLizard]

Nice, that's cheaper then the dang strips!

That's right, I've used strips for more than twice that price.

Now, how accurate is this thing? I don't see a storage solution, although the bottom cap could hold some, and probably should so the calomel electrode doesn't dry out.

If it gives accurate service for a year or longer it could be a decent deal.

 

[Haputanlas]

That's right, I've used strips for more than twice that price.

Now, how accurate is this thing? I don't see a storage solution, although the bottom cap could hold some, and probably should so the calomel electrode doesn't dry out.

If it gives accurate service for a year or longer it could be a decent deal.

I wouldn't count on it lasting a year. However, if it lasts me for 2-3 brews, it already seems worth it.

$11 is cheap when each of my batches are 12+ gallons.

 

[Steve271828]

I brewed this in late April and wanted to post some tasting notes. I added saison yeast while it was in secondary because the gravity wasn't moving so it might differ a bit from the recipe as posted.

Pours a clear light golden color. Pretty good head retention.

Extremely strong funk aroma. You can smell the funk on this from across the room. I would say it has a slight medicinal quality. I fermented the lacto sub-batch and the brett sub-batch pretty warm so I'm attributing it to that. There's also some citrus notes and a slight spiciness, probably from the saison yeast.

Moderate carbonation. Light mouthfeel.

Taste begins with a sweetness and finishes with a light, refreshing tartness. Not much detectable funk here.

Pretty interesting overall, although the initial funkiness is a bit off-putting.

 

[erockdoc]

I brewed this in late April and wanted to post some tasting notes. I added saison yeast while it was in secondary because the gravity wasn't moving so it might differ a bit from the recipe as posted.

Pours a clear light golden color. Pretty good head retention.

Extremely strong funk aroma. You can smell the funk on this from across the room. I would say it has a slight medicinal quality. I fermented the lacto sub-batch and the brett sub-batch pretty warm so I'm attributing it to that. There's also some citrus notes and a slight spiciness, probably from the saison yeast.

Moderate carbonation. Light mouthfeel.

Taste begins with a sweetness and finishes with a light, refreshing tartness. Not much detectable funk here.

Pretty interesting overall, although the initial funkiness is a bit off-putting.

nice! Too bad about the funk though. Do you think it came from the lacto or the brett? Warmer temps are usually favorable for both lacto and brett.

Also, nice glass! I had 2 of them, but just broke one a couple weeks ago.

 

[Steve271828]

That's a good question. I forgot to mention that my LHBS didn't have any lacto culture so I ended up pitching a handful of grain for the lacto batch. It's possible (probable) that there were some extra funky bugs in there. But I smelled the lacto batch before I combined it, and it had a kind of fruity aroma. I also think the Brett was extremely underpitched, which would probably contribute to a stronger funkiness.

Yeah I'm a big fan of that glass. I actually got it for free during Philly beer week at Uno Chicago Grill!

 

[erockdoc]

That's a good question. I forgot to mention that my LHBS didn't have any lacto culture so I ended up pitching a handful of grain for the lacto batch. It's possible (probable) that there were some extra funky bugs in there. But I smelled the lacto batch before I combined it, and it had a kind of fruity aroma. I also think the Brett was extremely underpitched, which would probably contribute to a stronger funkiness.

Yeah I'm a big fan of that glass. I actually got it for free during Philly beer week at Uno Chicago Grill!

Nice, I got mine at a tasting in Amherst, MA with Sam himself.

 

[Haputanlas]

Got my first taste of this beer from a hydro sample. It's fantastic!

I'll post a picture later today, but this ended up around 3.9%ABV and the perfect tart/sour level.

 

[erockdoc]

Got my first taste of this beer from a hydro sample. It's fantastic!

I'll post a picture later today, but this ended up around 3.9%ABV and the perfect tart/sour level.

Sounds great! I'm not too sure how to calculate the ABV on mine. I need to do more research on whether or not both the brett and lacto batches produce alcohol.

 

[Haputanlas]

Sounds great! I'm not too sure how to calculate the ABV on mine. I need to do more research on whether or not both the brett and lacto batches produce alcohol.

To be honest, I should have said "Max ABV". I didn't take a reading after the sour mash and before the Sach pitch. This is probably the only way to have truly known the ABV (Short of sending a sample for analysis).

Since my sour mash was made by pitching uncrushed 2-row, Lactobacillus Delbrueckii is the bacteria being used. Based on what I know, this strain doesn't produce alcohol, so 3.9% ABV is likely high and should be slightly lower. However, I would assume (without much to back it up) that this doesn't consume that much sugar and ABV will be 3.5%+.

 

[Haputanlas]

By the way, here is a quick pic (Ugly cell phone camera quality though). The beer is actually much clearer than what it looks like here.

 

[Haputanlas]

Another update