Belma Hops

[AnOldUR]

Bottle conditioned and if so, for how long before judged?

No. All were force carbed in kegs and bottled from the keg. Conditioning time before kegging was the same as I always do for the gravity of beer being packaged.

 

[TNGabe]

No. All were force carbed in kegs and bottled from the keg. Conditioning time before kegging was the same as I always do for the gravity of beer being packaged.

What yeast or yeasts did you use?

 

[AnOldUR]

Denny's 50 for the APA and Pacman for the other two. Pitched plenty of yeast late in the day all three times and all were showing signs of fermenting by morning.

 

[one-L]

I have done three with belma now, one of which was an EdWort's Haus Pale clone I put up a review on earlier in this thread, and in all three I got a super thick, creamy, almost slick mouthfeel going on that I would attribute to the Belma. I have done earlier versions of all three recipes and did not get that same mouthfeel/texture. I could see someone misinterpreting that as diacetyl if you had a high threshold for it and were looking for that "slick" mouthfeel as an indicator.

 

[AnOldUR]

I was thinking the same thing about the slickness from reading posts in this thread. Along with slickness, the judges’ comments mentioned things flavor and aroma related to diacetyl like butterscotch or artificial butter.

One of the things that is confusing is the both Pacman and Denny's are not known for producing diacetyl and shouldn't require a D-rest. Pacman specifically say "little to no diacetyl" in their yeast profile.

I'd love to blame it on the hops and move on, but want to be sure I'm not missing something.

 

[cheesecake]

That has me worried. I did a belma only ipa I havent tried yet. But it seems like belma would go good mixedb with other hops

 

[bleme]

This is my Belma recipe attempt. Can't wait!!!

http://hopville.com/recipe/1682069

 

[TNGabe]

I was thinking the same thing about the slickness from reading posts in this thread. Along with slickness, the judges’ comments mentioned things flavor and aroma related to diacetyl like butterscotch or artificial butter.

One of the things that is confusing is the both Pacman and Denny's are not known for producing diacetyl and shouldn't require a D-rest. Pacman specifically say "little to no diacetyl" in their yeast profile.

I'd love to blame it on the hops and move on, but want to be sure I'm not missing something.

Sounds like bad judging to me. Small comp?

 

[AnOldUR]

Sounds like bad judging to me. Small comp?

Can't speak to the quality of all the judges. I just don't know. But it was a large competition. Over 800 entries. And this was three all Belma beers judged by 6 different judges. None of the non Belma beers I entered had any mention of diacetyl, but all of the Belma's did by every judge. Could simply be something I did wrong and can't put my finger on, but sure makes me wonder.

 

[brewerelated]

Can't speak to the quality of all the judges. I just don't know. But it was a large competition. Over 800 entries. And this was three all Belma beers judged by 6 different judges. None of the non Belma beers I entered had any mention of diacetyl, but all of the Belma's did by every judge. Could simply be something I did wrong and can't put my finger on, but sure makes me wonder.

What do you taste in those beers with Belma? Do you taste diacetyl? Do you have friends that are fellow homebrewers? Maybe you can get them to try some?

I haven't noticed any diacetyl like flavors in any beers that I have made with Belma, but I am not BJCP certified either.

 

[AnOldUR]

What do you taste in those beers with Belma? Do you taste diacetyl?

More strangeness there. The worst offender was the Belma Amber Ale. I bottled a six from a keg a couple of months ago for the competion after rushing the carbonation. (No shaking, just bumped the pressure for a day or so.) I have been serving from the keg with no reports of diacetyl. Last night I opened one of those original bottles. Yup, it's a D bomb, but the keg is fine.

I haven't noticed any diacetyl like flavors in any beers that I have made with Belma . . .

Yeah. I'm just frustrated and grasping at straws. I'll have to place the blame on something in my process. I fermented on the cool side and all of these beers were cold crashed. I normally only D-rest before crashing for specific yeast strains that I feel need it. From now on, I'll add a D-rest before crashing, regardless of the strain.

Since nobody else has had the diacetyl problem, Belma's off the hook. Thanks for the replys.

 

[FATC1TY]

Hate to hear about the diacetly issues. I have used Belma a bit, and haven't found any of it, and I'm pretty sensetive to it.

 

[one-L]

Agreed on Belma not being the case if you're getting the classic strong movie butter popcorn kind of flavor. Maybe they caught a bug at bottling? Nov/Dec 2012 edition of Zymurgy has a good article about beer spoilage organisms and notes that some strains of pedio can cause big diacetyl flavors. How are you bottling out of keg? I have yet to work out a good method for this. I will typically just drop pressure on keg and fill straight from tap if I am filling a growler, and I have done bottles this way also with ok results, but I just got a good look at my tap the other day and its due for a serious breakdown and cleaning, so probably time to throw together a Biermuncher ugly junk bottle filler.

 

[FATC1TY]

Agreed on Belma not being the case if you're getting the classic strong movie butter popcorn kind of flavor. Maybe they caught a bug at bottling? Nov/Dec 2012 edition of Zymurgy has a good article about beer spoilage organisms and notes that some strains of pedio can cause big diacetyl flavors. How are you bottling out of keg? I have yet to work out a good method for this. I will typically just drop pressure on keg and fill straight from tap if I am filling a growler, and I have done bottles this way also with ok results, but I just got a good look at my tap the other day and its due for a serious breakdown and cleaning, so probably time to throw together a Biermuncher ugly junk bottle filler.

I fill from a cobra tap. 5 ft lines, a cut off siphon tube inside the cobra tap end. I drop the pressure on the keg to 5-7 psi, and fill it, making sure I don't throttle the tap at all to foam. Fills growlers and bottles easy. Normally I fill growlers like that from the bottom, and cap on foam. I've had them keep in the growlers for over 2 weeks even. Forgot I took one to someones house, drank 2/3 of it, and had 1/3 left, and opened it. It was still carbed and good. YMMV.

Anyways- Topic wise.. Has anyone dry hopped a Saison with Belma?

I added like an ounce late in the boil, with some Nelson Sauvin in a nice simple saison. Figured the berry note would go well with the sweet berry note of the golden naked oats in there. Decided to dry hop it with some Belma leaf for a week, been in there for 3 days now.

 

[TNGabe]

I've dry hopped three saisons with Belma. The first two were a split 10 gallon batch, only difference being the dry hop - one all belma and the other bema/saaz/strisselspalt. I like the 2nd one better, not that either is bad.

The third is a stronger saison with an oz belma at 60, oz nelson at 0 and oz citra, 1/2oz nelson, 1/2 oz belma dry hop. Nice beer. I prefer belma in a combo and if it were mine, I'd probably toss some more nelson in there, but maybe just your late nelson will be great.

Anyways- Topic wise.. Has anyone dry hopped a Saison with Belma?

I added like an ounce late in the boil, with some Nelson Sauvin in a nice simple saison. Figured the berry note would go well with the sweet berry note of the golden naked oats in there. Decided to dry hop it with some Belma leaf for a week, been in there for 3 days now.

 

[eulipion2]

I posted in the Recipes section about a Belma session saison, but no responses so far, but I'm looking to do a 3.4% ABV saison with Belma and Strisselspalt. I used Strisselspalt for a similar recipe last year with Styrian Goldings, but I recently read that it can have a black currant flavor (never noticed before) which would (hopefully) pair well with Belma.

Anyone tried Belma with Strisselspalt?

EDIT: Sorry TNGABE, I really need to pay better attention. Belma and Strisselspalt work nice together with Saaz, but have you tried them without the Saaz?

 

[AgentHubcap]

Anyone see a difference between leaf and pellet? The pellets have a lower AA % (not sure if this is normal, I normally only use leaf hops)

 

[kpr121]

I don’t see a difference in this variety specifically (I only bought leaf), but its fairly common for leaf/pellet to have different AA%. Sometimes they are taken from different parts of the field, different farms, different processors, etc.

 

[brewerelated]

Anyone see a difference between leaf and pellet? The pellets have a lower AA % (not sure if this is normal, I normally only use leaf hops)

I don't work on a hop farm so I can't speak from firsthand experience, but I have read that sometimes older leaf hops will get converted to pellet hops. Especially if the supplier sees that the pellet hops are in higher demand. As the hops age they lose alpha acids. Therefore this might explain why some pellet hops might have lower AA than some leaf hops of the same variety. I am not saying that this is in fact what is happening in this case, but it could apply to some cases.

 

[TNGabe]

I don't work on a hop farm so I can't speak from firsthand experience, but I have read that sometimes older leaf hops will get converted to pellet hops. Especially if the supplier sees that the pellet hops are in higher demand. As the hops age they lose alpha acids. Therefore this might explain why some pellet hops might have lower AA than some leaf hops of the same variety. I am not saying that this is in fact what is happening in this case, but it could apply to some cases.

As this is the first year this hop was harvested, probably not the case here.

 

[bellmtbbq]

As this is the first year this hop was harvested, probably not the case here.

(they've been harvested for years, just not commercially released

 

[KurtB]

I don’t see a difference in this variety specifically (I only bought leaf), but its fairly common for leaf/pellet to have different AA%. Sometimes they are taken from different parts of the field, different farms, different processors, etc.

The pelletizing process also involves heat and compression which will also effect the final AA% as well.

 

[sweetcell]

conversely if the cones are pelletized quickly, they will oxidize slower than whole cones and have higher AA... lots of variables at play.

 

[scottland]

Every plant in the field will have slightly different alpha acid content. Some hops are pretty consistent, some (like CTZ) are all over the map. I've heard of people pulling samples from a bail of Columbus that were 4-5% different. From the SAME BAIL.

I wouldn't worry about carrying alpha content. It's completely normal.

 

[austintxeric]

I posted about this recipe in the Recipe/Ingredients thread...I brewed on Wednesday so I'm looking forward to the results. The pre fermentation sample tasted nice!

Recipe: Belma Citrus IPA
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.24 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.05 gal
Estimated OG: 1.063 SG
Estimated Color: 8.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 63.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 74.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 80.7 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
10 lbs 9.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 84.9 %
14.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.0 %
7.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.5 %
5.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.5 %
4.0 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.0 %
1.30 oz Belma [11.30 %] - First Wort 20.0 min Hop 6 30.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Belma [11.30 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 17.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 15.4 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 mins) Fining 9 -
1.00 oz Belma [11.30 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 12 -
2.00 oz Belma [11.30 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs

 

[thasnazzle]

Brewed an IPA with Belma on sat using EdWort's house IPA grain bill, s-05, and hopping as follows:

2.5 oz Belma FWH
1 oz Cascade 15
1 oz Belma 10
1 oz Citra 5
Dry hop 4 days with 1oz ea of Belma, Citra, Cascade.

Stoked to see how it turns out.

 

[brewerelated]

I think Belma and Cascade taste pretty good together. I did a Belma and Cascade american wheat and it tasted much better than Belma alone although the Belma alone was not bad just very plain like BMC plain.

I am interested in how Belma will go with Centennial as well as I am growing Centennial this year. I also have about 4.5 pounds of belma in my freezer so I am going to be making some Belma and Centennial IPA's in the near future.

 

[Brewitt]

I just made an IPA fermented with a Belgian golden ale yeast (from Pranqster) and dry hopped it with Citra and Belma. It is a great combination for that mild fruity tropical taste. I love the beer. Should say I used Warrior for bittering and Simcoe for flavor, pretty complex hop bill but still, for aroma and some flavor the Citra and Belma really come through. I am loving Belma for its smooth subtle flavor and aroma and it seems to really stabilize the head on the beer.

 

[bobbrews]

I've used Warrior, Citra & Belma together four times now with different hopping schedules. I dislike what Belma brings to the mix. Belma is a citrusy/herbaceous mess with grassy/hay qualities. It makes an American IPA taste cheap. List a dozen other American hops and I guarantee they all taste/smell better than Belma in an IPA, Palisade being the exception.

Sub Belma for Amarillo and realize a better final IPA by 1000%.

 

[kpr121]

I've used Warrior, Citra & Belma together four times now with different hopping schedules. I dislike what Belma brings to the mix. Belma is a citrusy/herbaceous mess with grassy/hay qualities. It makes an American IPA taste cheap. List a dozen other American hops and I guarantee they all taste/smell better than Belma in an IPA, Palisade being the exception.

Sub Belma for Amarillo and realize a better final IPA by 1000%.

Thats some big talk right there. I agree with bobbrews, there's no real reason to try to save a Buck or two with this hop.v I've pretty much relegated belma to non-ipa bittering hop or a minor addition to flavor/aroma.