Belgian Specialty Sour Ale?

[Browarmistrz]

As the temperature increases i plan on brewing a belgian-style ale.
i want to achieve something thats very refreshing with some brett character. i fell in love with lindemans gueuze. im not trying to make a clone. im just inspired by how refreshing it is due to the brett.

so far i made a recipe like this:
Brewhouse efficiency: 70%
Boil Time: 90min
Batch Size: 12gal
Est. OG: 1.057
Est. Color: 11 SRM
Est. Bitterness: 26.7 IBU
Grist:
3 kg - Pale Malt - 26.7%
2.5 kg - Pilsner - 22.2%
2.5 kg - Wheat - 22.2%
1 kg - Cara-Pils - 8.9%
0.5 kg - Munich II - 4.4%
1 kg - Candi Sugar (Amber) - 8.9%
0.75 kg - Candi Sugar (Clear) - 6.7%
Hops:
70g Challenger [7.00%] - 60 MIN
30g Challenger [7.00%] - 5 MIN
+10g Irish Moss @ 10 MIN


MY QUESTION:
What should i pick?? Im considering Roselare because it is available. I dont know if it should be the only yeast that i use (2 activator pkgs) or if i should blend it with another belgian ("non-sour") yeast.

if so, what yeast and what proportion? Should i add both for primary or use the roselare for secondary. I really like rodenbach's grand cru but do not want this beer to be that sour. I want this one to be more of a fruity gueuze-like sour.

hows the recpie? the color is coming mainly from the candi sugar and not darker malts.

thanks

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Roselare will take 12+ months to finish fermenting. I hope you intend not to drink this until next summer or the winter after if you want to go that route.

Are you sure you are looking for brett character or are you looking for sour/tart? Brett does not make for a very sour beer by itself. The beers you listed are made with a blend of saccharomyces, brett and souring bacteria like lacto and pedio (all of which Roselare has in it). You can make a beer sour without brett but not so much the other way around.

If you are looking for sour but set on drinking it this summer you could do a sour mash and make a style suited to sour mashing. If you are set on brett and brett alone then you could ferment with saccharomyces and then pitch brett in secondary. That's still going to be at least 4-6 months though.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

BTW -- gueuze is a blended beer and usually is three years in the making.

 

[Browarmistrz]

Roselare will take 12+ months to finish fermenting. I hope you intend not to drink this until next summer or the winter after if you want to go that route.

Are you sure you are looking for brett character or are you looking for sour/tart? Brett does not make for a very sour beer by itself. The beers you listed are made with a blend of saccharomyces, brett and souring bacteria like lacto and pedio (all of which Roselare has in it). You can make a beer sour without brett but not so much the other way around.

If you are looking for sour but set on drinking it this summer you could do a sour mash and make a style suited to sour mashing. If you are set on brett and brett alone then you could ferment with saccharomyces and then pitch brett in secondary. That's still going to be at least 4-6 months though.

yes, i plan on holding it in secondary till about late spring/early summer next year. then bottling it at about 4 volumes into used belgian 330ml bottles.
im loking for both the brett character and the sour/tart.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

yes, i plan on holding it in secondary till about late spring/early summer next year. then bottling it at about 4 volumes into used belgian 330ml bottles.
im loking for both the brett character and the sour/tart.

In that case Roselare would be fine as well as one of the other lambic or sour blends. You can also use dregs from commercial sours and/or mix dregs with the Wyeast or WL blends.

 

[Browarmistrz]

In that case Roselare would be fine as well as one of the other lambic or sour blends. You can also use dregs from commercial sours and/or mix dregs with the Wyeast or WL blends.

should i use a normal belgian yeast in addition to the roselare in primary?
according to mrmalty for a 12 gal batch at 1.057 i need 4.9 packs (w/o starter)
im thinking of maybe doing a primary fermentation consisting of:
- 3 pkgs of roselare (wyeast says not to make a starter of it)
- 1 pkg of some kind of belgian yeast in a 2000ml starter (idk what kind yet, want something fruity)
and for secondary i'll probably throw in some dregs for good measure.

or maybe should i do 4pkgs of roselare in primary, which would be a slight underpitch. i remember reading in "Brew like a monk" that abbeys usually pitch less than what is considered 'standard pitch rate'. they say it makes the beer "more interesting" (page 186)

i kinda dont really have the $ to dish out on 5 pkgs

 

[heywatchthis]

I wouldn't pitch quite so much primary strain. I pitched a smack pack of 1214 and a smack pack of Roesalare into 5 gallons. I also pitched the dregs from about 4 other sours into it...worked great.

 

[Browarmistrz]

I wouldn't pitch quite so much primary strain. I pitched a smack pack of 1214 and a smack pack of Roesalare into 5 gallons. I also pitched the dregs from about 4 other sours into it...worked great.

yea, but this is for 12 gal, not 5