Belgian season yeast question

[gstolas]

Classic Saison yeast from Wallonia. It produces earthy, peppery, and spicy notes. Slightly sweet. With high gravity saisons, brewers may wish to dry the beer with an alternate yeast added after 75% fermentation.

^from the white labs website.

It mentions brewers may wish to dry the beer with an alternate yeast. Will this require an additional starter of a higher attenuating yeast or will a simple smack pack suffice to finish it once the bulk of it is finished. Or will it even be necessary at all if I allow it to free rise slowly from say....69 to the upper 70s or maybe low 80s

Any advice would be greatly appreciated . brewing a rye saison and I had already purchased the vial of season yeast only to learn more after the fact about drying

 

[gstolas]

Wlp565 is the yeast

 

[jerbrew]

Not familiar with this particular yeast but that's an average apparent attenuation. If you mash low and use sugar to boost your ABV you could get more out of it. A recipe will help people help you.

 

[Aristotelian]

I don't have experience with that specific yeast, but I would try it alone first and see how low it gets. If it stalls, the notes say "some brewers use WLP001". The simplest thing to do would be to use a pack of dry US-05, which should have exactly the same effect.

 

[gstolas]

Its something like 83% 6-row, 12 % flaked rye and 9 oz of turbinado sugar. It is a recipe from byo but I went with another yeast based on what was available. I was wondering if it will have an issue with drying as much as I would like despite the turbinado addition.

 

[Aristotelian]

Its something like 83% 6-row, 12 % flaked rye and 9 oz of turbinado sugar. It is a recipe from byo but I went with another yeast based on what was available. I was wondering if it will have an issue with drying as much as I would like despite the turbinado addition.

What was your OG? Any reason to think this might be a difficult beer for the yeast to finish out?

 

[gstolas]

I have not brewed it yet. But i an aiming for 1.058. The description of this strain is the only thing that caused my concern. I'm led to believe saisons should be on the dry side

 

[gstolas]

I suppose I'll have safale05 on deck and taste a sample and take a reading after 2 or 3 weeks and see where it finished

 

[NTexBrewer]

Here is my 2 cents.
This yeast will ferment fine. It just sometimes takes 4 weeks. That is why white labs recommend using a second yeast to help the beer finish in a timely manner. If you do decide to add a second yeast as they recommend I would use a liquid yeast and make a small starter and add this yeast at high krausen of the starter. I would not use a dry yeast as there is a chance the yeast will be stressed and you will get fusel alcohols.

 

[pig140]

I have brewed with it several times - one of my favorites. I pitch at 80 and immediately ramp the ferm chamber to 88-90. I have a video of the blow off at 89. It's pretty cool. I keep it there for 4 weeks in the primary at that temp. My attenuation is always in the 90's. My recipe OG is 1.060 and every time I hit the same FG - 1.002, which is dry. But it's not like cotton mouth dry.

If you keep it hot, it won't stall, but it will dry without the help of any other yeast. That's kinda what this yeast is all about - ferment hot, go dry... which is typical for a saison.

 

[gstolas]

Thanks a lot. Definitely not what my initial thoughts were. I was going to start at 70 and slowly ramp it up a couple degrees a day to hit maybe 85. But pitching at 80 from the start , won't the fermentation temperature be pretty high since it tends to be 10-15 degrees higher inside?

 

[pig140]

Yep, it sure will. But with this yeast, it won't matter. There won't be any crazy weird off-flavors. It'll be Dupont-ish if that makes sense. If you're looking for the recently popular American-ized craft version of saison, this really isn't your yeast. But if you're looking for that yeasty funk from a Saison Dupont or Fantome Saison, then this is the right stuff. It won't make your beer taste like bananas - even tho it may smell a little like bananas in the fermenter. It's an awesome yeast and treated right, it'll do exactly like it's supposed to do. Keep it warm - hot even, and you'll keep it happy.

My first time brewing a saison, we got too drunk and made all kinds of mistakes. I kept with the plan - first day it sat at 78, by day 2 it was at 90. Stayed there for 28 days. Best beer we've ever made.

 

[pig140]

This is a little video of the blow off bottle at 89. Kinda cool.

https://www.facebook.com/flatfootbrewingcompany/videos/1024503221000576/

 

[gstolas]

Awesome. Thank you. Never brewed a saison or anything like it yet. Appreciate the advice

 

[pdxal]

Its something like 83% 6-row, 12 % flaked rye and 9 oz of turbinado sugar. It is a recipe from byo but I went with another yeast based on what was available. I was wondering if it will have an issue with drying as much as I would like despite the turbinado addition.

The sugar will make it finish drier, not sweeter. Sugars are generally 100% fermentable. That recipe can finish dry if you treat the yeast right.
As noted, keep it warm.
If you need help getting it to finish after about 4 weeks you could pitch in a pack of WY3711 (even without a starter at high krausen) and it will tear through anything fermentable left.

 

[gstolas]

Well I brewed this yesterday morning. Everything went great I began fermenting in the mid 70s and it rose to 85 by this morning, blowoff tube very active. You were right about the banana smell

 

[pig140]

Keep us posted! I bet it turns out awesome.

 

[Sillybilly]

I bet it will turn out awesome as well. On two recipes that were fairly similar i noticed that pitching 75 and letting free rise to 78 in first 2-3 days then bumping up to mid-80s had much subtler yeast flavors and more of a clean/dry taste then when i pitched at 78 and let it free rise up to ~88-90 right away which had more pronounced earthy/spicy taste. Both were good, just different ways to manipulate the yeast to get different flavors.

I use/re-used this yeast on 4 batches and the last two were OG 1063 and 1075 getting down to 1.004/1.006, so be sure to save this yeast if you want to make some bigger saisons with it.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I've never had any issues with 565. I've heard it also likes open fermentation. I pitch it at 68. Let it get started, and slide it over the heat vent. Slip a plastic bag over it and let it ride. The bag catches the hot air when the furnace blows. Even though the thermostat is on 68, the beer ferments in the high 70's. It always finishes around 1.002-1.004.

 

[gstolas]

Wow. Lowest FG I ever hit. Almost a bit nervous

View attachment 1478625748631.jpg

 

[Sillybilly]

That's where you want it. What did you end up doing for fermentation temps?

EDIT: Never mind, I just saw it in your post above.

 

[gstolas]

Just a quick update for you guys. I tried the saison after a week in the bottle cus the temptation was killing me. Its carbonated , not quite at the level I'd like yet, but it tastes fantastic. Love the estery belgian character from this yeast, and that hint of rye is coming through nicely. Has a nice and dry finish. Probably one of my best brews, if not the best.

I would brew this again!

Thanks for the help guys. Much appreciated