Belgian Honey Wheat

[BakerBeer]

Well my three week bottling time is quickly approaching!

I have taken some bottle out and tested them over the past few weeks to experiment with how the beer is developing over this time.

Week 1 - beer had a great flavor! Carb was decent but not ready, the head was not as thick as I thought it would be. The color was amazing and could not taste any harsh bitterness or bad after taste

Week 2 - again beer had great color, however I am sensing a slight change in the flavor and a after taste is starting to develop. The carbonation looks to be complete but we will see what the following week brings.

Week 3 - update around march 1

On a side note... I was on travel this week for work and it lead me to a small town in Rhode Island named providence. Apparently providence is known for its micro brewers around the area. Though not a local brewery, Harpoon seems to be a big name up in to area. Harpoon has a limited edition coffee porter that's absolutely to die for. Smooth, semi thick, and had a nice medium body with a nice balance of coffee , vanilla, and toffee. What I think made this beer so good was it wasn't over powering with the coffee. I was heart broken when I googled this beer and found it was only a 100 barrel limited edition. So I have set a new goal...I want to duplicate this beer and I have no clue where to start. what makes a porter? Is it the ingredients? Is it the yeast? Are their special fermentation requirements? I could go on.

 

[zzARzz]

There are a ton of coffee porter recipes on here and around the web, but a good place to start would be the BJCP guidelines for porters here. I would imagine, since you said it was a bit heavy, that you should base the recipe on either a Baltic or Robust porter rather than a brown.

When formulating your recipe, you may want to keep to a simple, straightforward grain bill for porters and adjust from there. Chocolate malt will add color and some coffee taste, but you don't want to use too much or you'll be entering stout territory. Since you said it had a "semi-thick" mouthfeel, you may want to mash high (156F mash in temp) so you have a higher final gravity which will give that thicker sensation. You may also want to add about 5% Briess Carapils malt in your grain bill as it will help to create a silkier head. As far as hops, I would use the subtler English hops like EKG and Fuggles so the coffee flavor isn't masked by the stronger American varietals. For yeast I would use Wyeast London Ale (1028), Irish Ale (1084) or Scottish Ale (1728; my personal favorite) or any of White Labs' British, Irish or English Ale yeasts.

There are a few different methods for adding the coffee flavor, but they all involve introducing it during either secondary fermentation or at bottling. One popular method is to "cold steep" coffee in a French press overnight, push the plunger down to separate the grounds and add it at bottling. Another is to crack whole beans, put them in a hop sack and let them dry hop 7-14 days in secondary before bottling. Generally you don't want to boil grounds or beans or add them during primary as they'll leave some harshness behind.

 

[zzARzz]

Here's an easy Coffee Porter recipe I just came up with:

Style: Robust Porter (12B)
Boil: 60 minutes
Size: 5 gallons
Pre-Boil Vol: 6.25 gal
Pre-Boil Grv: 1.054
OG: 1.061
FG: 1.017
IBU: 35
SRM: 30
ABV: 5.7%

Grains (Single Infusion, Full Body)

8 lbs -- Maris Otter Pale Malt (Munton's) 69.6%
2 lbs -- Crystal 40L (Briess) 17.4%
8 oz -- Chocolate Malt (Briess) 4.3%
8 oz -- Roasted Barley (Briess) 4.3%
8 oz -- Carapils (Briess) 4.3%

Mash-In: 15.5 qts water @ 169F (154F Step Temp) for 45 minutes
Mash-Out: 7.6 qts water @ 202F (168F Step Temp) for 10 minutes
Fly-Sparge with 2.1 gallons water @ 168F over 45 minutes

Hops
1 oz -- East Kent Goldings (5% AA) @ 60 min
1 oz -- East Kent Goldings (5% AA) @ 30 min
1 oz -- Fuggles (4.5% AA) @ 10 min

Yeast (Chill wort to 70F and pitch starter)
1 pkg -- Wyeast Scottish Ale (1728) (2.75 L Starter w/o Stir Plate; 1L Starter w/ Stir Plate)

Fermentation Schedule
7 days Primary @ 65F
14-21 days Secondary @ 65F
Prime with 3.5oz Dextrose (2.25 vol)

Flavoring
Method 1: Make 24oz of cold steeped coffee in French press by steeping coffee grounds in cold water and refrigerate overnight. Filter out grounds by pressing plunger and strain coffee through paper filter. Add at bottling.

Method 2: Coarsely grind or crack in a zip-lock bag with a rolling pin 1/2 cup of whole coffee beans. Securely tie in a fine mesh muslin bag and dry hop in Secondary for 7 days before bottling.

 

[BakerBeer]

WOW! how did you do that? i got the brew smith software... did you use that? i need to review and noodle over your ideas. Your should be a master brewer!

 

[BakerBeer]

I think a Baltic Porter is going to be right on point!

I am just thinking out loud..

I think a chocolate, carmel or Toffee, and coffee flavor with hint of roast. I want to to start off sweet and but not lack in a coffee flavor.

more to come...

 

[zzARzz]

Yeah, I use BeerSmith which makes it pretty easy to put stuff together. It takes a while to learn but once you do putting together recipes is pretty quick. Most of the BJCP guidelines also include an "accepted" ingredients section which help determine base and specialty malts of a particular style.

Like I said, I just rattled that one off pretty quick so it may be worth seeing if someone has come up with a clone of the beer you're looking to replicate and compare it to this one. I usually try to adhere to the Keep-It-Simple-Stupid philosophy, so less is better, especially while learning.

Your numbers may vary a bit from mine since my equipment is different from yours (you'll need to make an equipment profile in BeerSmith for your particular gear), but it will be close enough to not matter.

 

[zzARzz]

I think a Baltic Porter is going to be right on point!

I am just thinking out loud..

I think a chocolate, carmel or Toffee, and coffee flavor with hint of roast. I want to to start off sweet and but not lack in a coffee flavor.

more to come...

Baltics usually use either a lager yeast or cold fermenting ale yeast, so there will be some temperature control issues to deal with. The Robust style will simplify things, but if you can keep stable cold temperatures for 5-7 weeks I'd say go for it.

 

[BakerBeer]

Interesting

I have been googling a Baltic porter and doing some research on the brewing how to's

I think a stupid simple recipe is a good idea for my first one attempt. I am thinking of a small batch incase i need to toss it.

It's cooler outside, is using a garage good for keeping a lower temp for fermenting? I would say my garage is above freezing. Or maybe under my stairs where my hot water heater is.. That's pretty cool area too...

What is your method of temp control?

 

[zzARzz]

I built a fermentation chamber out of a 1.8cf dorm fridge I built a collar for using an "eBay Temp Controller" as seen here. It holds both my 3 and 5.5 gal carboys at the same time, but is too short for my glass 6.5 gal one. I have a larger fridge I'll be turning into another fermentation chamber one of these days with larger capacity, though.

For temp control of a lager in your garage, it will work well, but you will need to control temp shifts by placing the fementer in a large, covered styrofoam cooler with some frozen 2L soda bottles in the cooler with the fermenter. You will need to change out the bottles every couple of days, but that should keep the fluctuations to only a few degrees in either direction. As always, stable temps make for happy yeast.

I would strongly suggest setting it up before you brew (i.e. without the fermenter in the cooler), put a thermometer in there over night and check the temp in the morning, when you get home from work and before you go to bed. Record the readings over a couple of days and be sure that the ambient temp in the cooler is going to be in the range your yeast is happy with as well as whether or not there are large fluctuations in the ambient temperature. Lager yeasts generally prefer mid 40s to mid 50s, but the strain you choose may vary. Many people use this method and have great success with it, so it isn't as "MacGuyver-esque" as it sounds.

 

[BakerBeer]

So today was my last day for my bottle conditioning...

I opened up a chilled beer and poured it in my favorite frozen mug... I have to say I am displeased with how much this beer has changed over the last 3 weeks. The first week of this beers life after bottling was amazing. Great flavor, no harsh after taste, cloudy like a true wheat beer, and smelled great!

Now the beer still has a decent smell, however the color has definitely cleared up a tad, the taste is nothing like it was the first week or two, and the after taste is amazingly long lasting and very harsh. I am quite upset how it turned out. I thought I nailed this recipe right on the head.

What could have happened?

 

[zzARzz]

What do you mean specifically by "very harsh?" Is it a mouth puckering, tannin kind of quality? A cooked vegetable taste? Sulfur-like? Metallic?

Likely it just needs to sit for another couple weeks to a month. I've made plenty of brews where it tasted like manure right out of conditioning (such as a ginger beer that was so bad I almost threw it out) but, given an extended aging time, turned out fantastic (the ginger beer became everyone's favorite). The hardest part for most brewers, as I've said before, is learning patience and giving the beer time to mature.

 

[BakerBeer]

Sorry it took me so long to reply, finials are this week! Lol

Umm... To be honest with you i don't know how to describe it. I asked my wife to give me her opinion and she could not either. What is tannin? It don't smell bad, the color is becoming more clear, and its developing a bite to the after taste. I don't taste a metallic flavoring. To be honest with you I think this is where I need to develop my taste buds. It's just upsetting that this beer has a kick butt flavor the first week or two then develops into this. Hell, I drank 10-12 of my beers in just the first 2 weeks, that how good it was.

I will put 6 aside and label then with what they are and see how they react to aging.

Now... I absolutely have no intentions on giving up. I am going try a Baltic porter this go around...

I will put together a recipe and maybe you can help adjust it. Next week I think the temp out side is going to be in the upper 40s so my garage might be a good place for it. Using the box idea you had I hope I can make it work.

 

[zzARzz]

If you've ever had a really dry red wine, that mouth puckering, "dry" sensation in your cheeks and tongue that you experience is from tannin. I doubt it is tannin, however, because you would have experienced it all along.

There are several things that can cause off flavors, but as I said, beers mature and develop as they age and hence the flavors change. If it is a hot, alcohol flavor it may be that the yeast is finally starting to eat the honey after getting through the simpler sugars and causing a "heat" to the after taste.

I would just let it sit and try one every week until it evens out. This may actually be a good thing because you can see for yourself how the process works with maturation.

I'd be happy to check out your recipe when it's done.

 

[BakerBeer]

OK well i was starting to build my own then i stumbled across a recipe online that sounds so good!

I think it might be a little over my head and the recipe says its an 8gallon batch at 75% efficient

I would like to add some coffee to this list of ingredients also...

What you think? think this is over my head or you think i can pull it off? its going to be an expensive list of ingredients so if i get this i only have one shot at it... LOL

 

[zzARzz]

Honestly, for what I believe you are intending to make, that recipe seems a bit inappropriate for a coffee porter. And at 14% smoked malt (which would be fine for something like a Rauchbier) it would seem to me to be a bit overwhelming (put some Liquid Smoke in your coffee tomorrow if you don't believe me ). It's a very good base, though, and I would modify it in this way:

Baltic Coffee Porter

Size: 5 gallons
Est-Eff: 72%
PreBoil-Vol: 6.25 gal
PreBoil-Grav: 1.063
Boil Time: 60 minutes
SRM: 28
IBU: 33
OG: 1.077
FG: 1.020
ABV: 7.5%

Grains

5.5 lbs -- 2-Row Brewer's Malt (Briess)
1 lb -- Crystal 40L (Biess)
1 lb -- Munich 20L (Briess)
0.75 lb -- Barley, Flaked (Briess)
0.75 lb -- Barley, Roasted (Briess)
0.50 lb -- Carapils (Briess)
0.25 lb -- Chocolate Malt (Briess)

Mash Schedule (Full Body, Single Infusion)
Mash-In: 13.75 qts water (1.3 water:grain ratio) @ 172F (156F ST) for 60 minutes
Mash-Out: 5 qts water @ 207F (168F ST) for 10 minutes
Fly-Sparge: 3 gallons water @ 168F over 45 minutes

Other Fermentables
3 lbs -- Briess Golden Light DME @ 10 minutes left in boil
1 lb -- Clear Simplicity Candi Syrup @ Flame Out

Hop Schedule
0.50 oz -- Magnum (14% AA) @ 60 minutes
0.50 oz -- Hallertauer (4.8% AA) @ 30 minutes
0.50 oz -- Magnum (14% AA) @ 5 minutes
0.50 oz -- Hallertauer (4.8% AA) @ 5 minutes

Other Additions
1 tsp -- Irish Moss @ 30 minutes

Yeast
2 pkgs -- Wyeast Scottish Ale (1728) (2L simple starter or 1L Starter w/ stir plate)

Fermentation Schedule
Primary: 7 days @ 55-60F
Secondary: 21 days @ 55-60F
Bottle with 4oz Priming Sugar (Dextrose); 2.45 vol for 30 days


The few reasons I went with the Scottish Ale yeast for this is that lagers are finicky creatures. Any lager yeast you went with would require strict temperature controls, a massive starter (about 2 gallons without a stir plate), a diacetyl rest (we can talk more about that later) and a much longer time to ferment than I think your garage method of temp control would permit (well into mid to late spring). The Scottish Ale yeast permits cold temperature fermentations (as low as 55F) while still giving a clean, lager like profile without all the hassle and time of a lager yeast.

As far as the coffee flavor addition I would simply use the cold steep method and if you want to add some complexity to it, add about 2 tbsp of Cafe du Monde Chicory Coffee to some ground Starbucks Italian Roast. You don't need a French Press either if you don't have one; just mix the ground coffee with cold water in a sealed mason jar, shake, refrigerate overnight and run it through a paper filter or gold permanent filter before you bottle.

 

[BakerBeer]

That sounds like a decent recipe too!

I was trying to use my beer smith to put together a recipe but I guess I am still on noob level. Lol, Beer smith offers so much it's a little overwhelming.

I think I am going to try your recipe! Sounds just as good as the other I posted.

 

[zzARzz]

Yeah, I've been using BeerSmith for a while and I'm still finding new stuff in it. There's a guy on YouTube that has posted some great tutorials here. They're the ones from about a year ago; just run down the list.

I figured mine was simple enough to do easily while still making a Baltic coffee porter like you wanted. I would certainly look at all the ingredients, though, and customize it to your personal tastes. Once you get it into BeerSmith it will be a lot easier to tweak.

That recipe is pretty much middle of the road which is where I tend to stay, at least while I'm learning. Sometimes I'll make something a little more off the beaten path; like the 15% ABV Ginger Barley Wine I'm planning for my girlfriend's best friend.

 

[Graypayp]

Well, I know you're technically looking for an all-grain recipe, and you're technically looking to make a wheat beer... but since it looks like you've basically got a spiced "holiday" ale on your mind, I'll at least share with you a recipe of mine that has probably been the biggest hit of everything I've made.

I'm kind of sheepish about having to admit that it involved a canned beer kit, and thus wasn't entirely my own original creation... but oh, well. So do some of Charlie P.'s best recipes:

North Drive "Honey Brown" Ale

4 lb. can Mountmellick Brown Ale liquid malt extract (hopped)
3 lb. Briess CBW Traditional Dark dried malt extract
¾ lb. honey
1 medium-sized oranges (for zest only)
4 whole cloves
4 whole cinnamon sticks
¼ tsp. ground nutmeg
4 tsp. gypsum
0.50 oz. UK Kent Golding hop pellets (finishing; final 20 minutes)
0.50 oz. UK Kent Golding hop pellets (aroma; final 2 minutes)
15 grams dry ale yeast (2 packets)

1. Clean two pots. Simmer all spices in 1 quart water for 45 minutes while also boiling the malt extracts, honey and gypsum in 1-1/2 gallons of water for 60 minutes.

2. Once the timer reaches 20 minutes, add the finishing hops in a bag.

3. After the 45 minutes are finished (i.e. the timer reaches 15 minutes), remove the whole spices from the spice water, then add the water to the large stock pot containing the malt extracts, honey, gypsum and finishing hops.

4. Once the timer reaches 5 minutes, remove and untie the hop bag, and add the orange zest to the bag. Retie the bag, and boil together for the next 3 minutes.

5. Once the timer reaches 2 minutes, remove and untie the hop bag again, and add the aroma hops to the bag. Retie the bag, and boil together for the final 2 minutes.

You know what to do from there - chill the wort, and take 'er away! Like I said, I can promise you that this one was one of my most popular beers I've made to date, and it was very winter/holiday appropriate.

 

[BakerBeer]

That's a very interesting recipe Gray. I will keep that on the side, I may very well try that one.

 

[BakerBeer]

Quick question, i am thinking of maybe putting some beer in a keg to see if there is a difference in taste. I found these on line...

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/mini-keg.html

What do you think? good keg? i am looking for some inexpensive, but will do the job.

i would say up to 4.5g nothing bigger

 

[zzARzz]

I've never kegged before, so I wouldn't be the best source of advice, but I have looked into it. That little keg will hold about a gallon, I think, so you would need several of them.

Generally most people use Cornelius kegs (also called "Corny Kegs") which hold about 5 gallons. There is a lot involved in kegging (plumbing and whatnot), but the advantage is you can do forced carbonation which eliminates the need for priming. Most Corny Keg kits start around $150-$200 dollars, though, so it's not exactly cost effective up front and you need to find a place that will fill your CO2 tank. You would also need a "kegerator" (a modified refrigerator) to keep the kegs at the proper temperature. That's mostly why I haven't done it yet. That and I like making beer more than drinking it so I would end up with a drive-through's worth in my basement.

 

[BakerBeer]

lol, i enjoy making it more then drinking also however, that might change if i find a that special recipe.

I am a draft beer guy, i pass on bottles and cans at my local pub for a draft any day. something about the way glass and cans make the beer taste, not so much glass as cans. its all experimenting as of right now.

I talked to a local brew store this evening and he invited me to a brew club one day of the month. should learn some more

How did you transfer your recipe from brewsmith to the form? i have a recipe i would like to share. worked on it with the owner wanted to get some comments.

 

[zzARzz]

I just type my recipes out; the format is just the way I keep it in my head, more or less. Mostly you just need the stuff on the Design and Mash tabs (OG, FG, grains, hop/mash schedules, etc.). I'd be interested to see your recipe.

 

[BakerBeer]

Ok here goes...

i bought the grain yesterday, only cost about 25$ so its not to shabby of a cost. The sweeteners are a little expensive but what the heck, i figured i would give t a try.

I took your advise on the 2 vials of the yeast and also added some roast flavor. I think that was a great idea and will give it a good touch.

now i have about 15 lbs of grain and only a 5gallon mash tun... lol now i got to get a larger mash tun.


Chocolate Baltic Porter

GRAIN
8lbs 2oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter
2lbs 12.2 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
2lbs 7.5oz Oats, Flaked
8.8oz Chocolate Malt
4.5oz Roasted Barley
4.5oz Black Barley
4.4oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 120L

Sweeteners
9.8 oz Candi Sugar
4.9 oz Milk Sugar
?? Coco Nibbs

YEAST
2 Vials of English ale White labs #WLP002

HOPS
.35oz Amarillo Gold
.35oz Simcoe
.35oz Amarillo Gold

NOTES
Cold Press Coffee into secondary

 

[zzARzz]

Looks like a really good breakfast stout! The only change I would suggest is to add the coffee at bottling instead of in the secondary if you want the flavor crisp and pronounced. In secondary it tends to get muted and stale, like day old coffee if you've ever had it.

I've done 14 lbs of grain in my 10 gallon Igloo beverage cooler without any issues (an Imperial IPA I have conditioning right now). I also made my own false bottom for it, which you can see here (the 10-gallon version is the set towards the bottom of the OP). I use this cooler and this pan, though the cooler was much cheaper when I purchased it from Amazon.

Some sporting goods places and discount stores like Big Lots usually have the coolers a lot cheaper as well, so it's just a matter of bargain hunting. I really like my mash tun, though and have had zero issues with stuck sparges, even when I did a wheat stout and forgot to throw in rice hulls to help with lautering.

The recipe looks great and it should make for a tasty brew.

 

[BakerBeer]

Well, attempted my brew today... had one disaster after another... I hit my mash temp right on the nose but my pre boil gravity was supposed to be around 1.065 and i only got up to 1.042. I am not sure why this is; I think I may have something set wrong in my beersmith.

Even after not hitting my numbers, i decided to keep pushing forward and give the brew a whirl anyways... I got through my 60min boil and added my newly DIY wort chiller to the boil kettle and started cooling down the wort. After about 15 min i noticed my pot was filling up...LOL. Yea my hose clamp was leaking tap water into the brew kettle. LOL this is what i get for trying to save a few bucks...LOL

So, what have i learned? not to be cheap and go buy a manufactured wort chiller...lol and the second thing i learned today was to keep to recipes made by others lol. I need to figure out why I didn’t hit my pre boil numbers...

Today’s cost: $75-$80.00
Lessons learned: Doh!

 

[zzARzz]

The two main reasons pre-boil gravity would be that low is either poor efficiency (by either poor conversion or the sparge water not rinsing the grains well; i.e. you're getting channeling for some reason) or you used too much sparge water, though if you went by BerrSmith's recommendations I find the latter unlikely. Were you close to your estimated pre-boil volume? If so then you are having some conversion issues.

It could also be tht your equipment profile is off in BeerSmith, but with a 20 point deficit it's difficult to believe that is the case.

That sucks about the equipment failure after all that hard work. I had an issue with that only once with my DIY immersion chiller, but fortunately I was standing right there and was able to tighten the hose clamp before it ruined my batch. Now I'm in the habit if tightening all of the clamps before using the chiller and have not had an issue since. I'm sure yours is fine, just be sure to tighten the clamps down if that was where the leak was coming from.

In the future you could have put the batch back in the brew kettle and boiled it back down to 5 gallons. You may have had some off flavors, especially if it was being supplied through a garden hose, but it would have sterilized any foreign bodies.

 

[BakerBeer]

Yea, it sucks but I am sure everyone has these screw ups in the beginning.

Beersmith said 19.8ish quarts of water at 168 for 45 min. I felt 45min was odd so i left it mash for 60 min. The recipe then stated to batch sparge with around 4 gallons for 15min which brought me up to around 6gallons.

I think I may have screwed up my Beersmith calculations. I need to set back to defaults lol.

I changed my equipment profile to my new 10g mash tun. Entered the weight of the cooler to 9lbs and adjusted for dead space at .5 gallon. I set the temp of the mash tun at 165 degrees only because I pour some boiling water into my tun to warm it up before I mash. After I stir in all my grains I take a temp reading to make sure 152-156 on the nose.

Before I started the brew I felt like there was something wrong with the way beer smith was telling me to mash with...

Normally I think we are to mash between 1.25-1.5 quarts of water per lbs of grain... If so...

Pre boil volume 6.5g
Post boil volume 5.5g

15.5lbs of grain x 1.5 = 23.250 quarts (5.81g) of mash water....pending I have a 6.5 gallon pre boil volume this leaves .69 gallons of water to sparge with... Something right here sounds incorrect.

The recipe had me sparge with 4 gallons of water at 165degrees

After all this mess.... I tasted my pre boil wort... Yea, was not my cup of tea... Lol I may look for a different recipe. Maybe a clone of yuengling or something...

 

[BakerBeer]

Ideas for an Irish stout?