Okay, let me begin by saying hello and this is my first post! I've done lots of reading, however, cant seem to find anything tailored specifically to my question. I started making my wine last Thursday (4/28/16). I decided to make it from concentrates first (Apple Raspberry). I am using the FastFerment, which so far is awesome. Anywho, my girlfriend and I were chugging along and she mistakingly added too much sugar. 10lbs to be exact. The initial SG was 1.112. Neither of us like dry wines, so we wanted a nice sweet wine. This would put the ABV around 15%. Thats a little too high for our liking. I was going to get the wine to our liking, and then add K-sorbate. I did just that today, and the gravity was at 1.020. That puts it at a near 12%. So I added the K-sorbate, and the Kieselsol, and was going to add the chitosan. Now I'm reading that the fermentation will continue, and will blow the bottles up. I'm not sure what to do here. I understand I'm being slightly impatient, but hey, I think thats probably normal with the first few batches. Please advise. Thanks everyone!
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DoctorCAD
Well-Known Member
You CAN'T STOP FERMENTATION...at least at a home winery.
You will have to let it go and add sugar back later
You will have to let it go and add sugar back later
stella_tigre
Queen of the Upper Mississippi
You can reduce abv after it finishes fermenting to dry if you backsweeten with some apple juice - not concentrate. What yeast did you use?
If you let it ferment dry, rack off of the less, add sorbate, and wait a little bit, you can then add the juice, make sure it does not start fermentation again. If you have a gallon of 15%, and add a quart of bottled apple juice, it will reduce the abv to about 12%, if I'm mathing it right....
If you let it ferment dry, rack off of the less, add sorbate, and wait a little bit, you can then add the juice, make sure it does not start fermentation again. If you have a gallon of 15%, and add a quart of bottled apple juice, it will reduce the abv to about 12%, if I'm mathing it right....
Yes sir. Can't stop a moving freight train. IF your yeast peters out before fully consuming the sugar, you'll have lower ABV, and sugar left...but don't count on it. Or at least, don't bottle it until you know FOR SURE. Otherwise, a sticky mess if you are lucky, bombs if you are unlucky.
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Thank you guys for your replies. I used EC1118. My understanding is since I added the sorbate, fermentation will slow, but not stop. If it does happen to stop, how often should I check gravity to make sure I'm okay to bottle?
Since I've added the clearing agent (Kieselsol and Chitosan) theoretically the yeast will fall to the bottom and if I remove it, all should be well right?
Since I've added the clearing agent (Kieselsol and Chitosan) theoretically the yeast will fall to the bottom and if I remove it, all should be well right?
stella_tigre
Queen of the Upper Mississippi
Only real way is with a hydrometer. Ec1118 would take it down to dry which would be less than 1.000.
DoctorCAD
Well-Known Member
Nope...the active yeast cells will keep on fermenting and wont drop out. Sorbate only keeps the active cells from reproducing, there are still tens to hundreds of billions of live cells in the wine.
Just forget about stopping it, it won't happen.
eigua
Well-Known Member
You could pasteurize, but I imagine that might ruin the flavor. I have almost no experience in brewing/winemaking yet, but pasteurization is a sure-fire way to stop fermentation permanently.
I'm likewise a novice, but that's not a bad idea IMO - it's an apple raspberry concentrate wine, so maybe a candidate for pasteurization? Maybe try it with one bottle to see how it tastes?
Small update: we're sitting at 1.10 and it's been sitting steady there for the last 4-5 days. How do I proceed from here? Also, after I put in the clearing agent, the wine was not, and is not clear. It changed nothing. I have bentonite, K-metabisulphate, and K-sorbate. I just don't want to ruin this stuff.
Yes you can.. you just need KMS and somewhere extremely cold would be nice (4c or 40F or less but not anything like -30 tho i doubt anyone will be that cold this time of the year).. I Did Ice-wine at home this year and that finished with around 190g/L of sugar and is stable
PS- KMS is a Industry term and short form for K-MetabiSulphate
Do you have a small scale that can do 0.1g?
K-meta does NOT stop fermentation. Nor does K-sorbate. Combined they will prevent yeast from reproducing but if you have an active ferment the yeast will be in sufficient numbers to continue.
I have a triple beam, why do you ask?
I ask because I was going to tell you roughly how much K-metabisulphate to add per L
That depends on how hard you hit the yeast with KMS (for sweet wines i use 100ppm or 100mg/L) in regards to Sorbate ( tho sorbate is something i do not add at all I have seen it done close to bottling) In commercial wineries if you keep Sulphates at a reasonable level you also prevent refermentations because yeast hate sulphur.
OP,
Here is a thread on pasteurizing BEER, it would be the same process https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=193295 And while you really need to probably do a Tydilization to kill all the everything. Pasteurizing should work.
I'm doubtful on the K-met and others only stop yeast from making more yeast. If you have a juice with sorbate and k-meta in it, you can get fermentation to kick off by adding more and more yeast. As to sulfur and yeast hating it, I've kicked of fermentation plenty of times on product with sulfur in it. the SkeeterPee recipe uses lemon juice and that has metabisufate in it as a preservative - although with such high acid you have to wonder why.
Regardless what you want to do now is get off the yeast and also degas. By degassing you will reduce the amount of CO2 that will allow the yeast to remain in suspension. This will help living yeast drop. I'd rack off the lees, degas let it settle a day, and if there was any new sediment, give it a day or 2 and rack again.
Adding in 1 quart of juice to 6 gallons of liquid will NOT change it from a 15% to 12%, to go from 15% @6 gallons, to 12% you need to dilute with 1.5 gallons of liquid. To bring up the sweetness you need to figure out what FG at 6 gallons you have and what FG at X gallons (7.5) you want. Juices typically have about 1.045SG - I think I've measured as low as 1.040 and as high as 1.050 depending of the fruit juice. This is with 100% juice and it depends on the tartness whether the SG is high or not.
Assuming you have 6 gallons and finish about a 1.000. Also figuring you want it closer to a 1.010, you will need to add almost all 1.5 gallons as 1.050 SG juice. - this is a plato of 12.5 or 12.5g sugars per 100g of solution or about 31 grams of sugar per 8oz serving of juice.
My advice. Rack as needed to get off the yeast. Ferment to dry. Re add for stabilization to prevent restarting the ferment. Take a measured unit - say 1 cup. dissolve in measured amounts sugar until it is to your liking. figure out how much you your chosen size there are (if cups, and 6 gallons, that is 6*16cups/gallon or 96, less the one you are working with for 95.) Multiply the amount of sugars up (95*weight). OPTIONAL 1. Use juice and not sugar. - I think this is the better option btw. OPTIONAL 2 - mix with juice at serving time. This is much easier now as you can just bottle when done. BUT a PIA when serving as you have to have juice on hand. Makes taking a bottle on a picnic into take 2 bottles on a picnic.
Here is a thread on pasteurizing BEER, it would be the same process https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=193295 And while you really need to probably do a Tydilization to kill all the everything. Pasteurizing should work.
I'm doubtful on the K-met and others only stop yeast from making more yeast. If you have a juice with sorbate and k-meta in it, you can get fermentation to kick off by adding more and more yeast. As to sulfur and yeast hating it, I've kicked of fermentation plenty of times on product with sulfur in it. the SkeeterPee recipe uses lemon juice and that has metabisufate in it as a preservative - although with such high acid you have to wonder why.
Regardless what you want to do now is get off the yeast and also degas. By degassing you will reduce the amount of CO2 that will allow the yeast to remain in suspension. This will help living yeast drop. I'd rack off the lees, degas let it settle a day, and if there was any new sediment, give it a day or 2 and rack again.
Adding in 1 quart of juice to 6 gallons of liquid will NOT change it from a 15% to 12%, to go from 15% @6 gallons, to 12% you need to dilute with 1.5 gallons of liquid. To bring up the sweetness you need to figure out what FG at 6 gallons you have and what FG at X gallons (7.5) you want. Juices typically have about 1.045SG - I think I've measured as low as 1.040 and as high as 1.050 depending of the fruit juice. This is with 100% juice and it depends on the tartness whether the SG is high or not.
Assuming you have 6 gallons and finish about a 1.000. Also figuring you want it closer to a 1.010, you will need to add almost all 1.5 gallons as 1.050 SG juice. - this is a plato of 12.5 or 12.5g sugars per 100g of solution or about 31 grams of sugar per 8oz serving of juice.
My advice. Rack as needed to get off the yeast. Ferment to dry. Re add for stabilization to prevent restarting the ferment. Take a measured unit - say 1 cup. dissolve in measured amounts sugar until it is to your liking. figure out how much you your chosen size there are (if cups, and 6 gallons, that is 6*16cups/gallon or 96, less the one you are working with for 95.) Multiply the amount of sugars up (95*weight). OPTIONAL 1. Use juice and not sugar. - I think this is the better option btw. OPTIONAL 2 - mix with juice at serving time. This is much easier now as you can just bottle when done. BUT a PIA when serving as you have to have juice on hand. Makes taking a bottle on a picnic into take 2 bottles on a picnic.
eigua
Well-Known Member
How about using a T cork? I can't be totally sure, but I seriously doubt a T cork can hold back enough pressure to allow the bottle to pressurize enough to explode should it somehow restart fermentation spontaneously. This is what I'm doing with 2 batches of mead I bottled that ended somewhat higher than expected (1.010 and 1.012). It also allows you to check once in a while by opening a bottle. So far, 3+ weeks later and no pressure has built up in either batch. I didn't want to add any sorbate or metabisulfite.
