Beginner BCS Questions

[fo0isclay]

Just starting to set up my BCS and had a few questions.

1) As of right now I am using two of the DIN's for top/bottom floats for my wort grant, and another DIN as an input button to trigger next state. Is it possible to utilize the other DIN to set up with a momentary switch to act as a pause button? I know there is a pause button on the BCS main screen but I want to have something on my panel.

2) There is an option to continue timer from previous state. Is this transferable across processes? i.e. is there a way to set up an elapsed timer from the start of a brew day to the end across several processes?

3) Is there a slight delay or "pulse" between changing to the next state when a particular output is running. i.e. state 1 HLT element is on, state 2 HLT element remains on. My main concern is on the pumps and whether or not something like this would be hard on the motor. It may impact the way I design my processes.

4) There is an option to alarm on state change. Does this mean that the alarm doesn't occur until the state is changed or until an exit condition is reached? i.e. is there a way to set up an exit condition that would alarm when triggered, then have "wait for input" set up to enter the next state (have to physically hit my input button.)

Sorry if these seem like really simple questions but I've been searching all around and can't seem to find anything. I've written down about 200 questions and have answered almost all of them by scowering these message boards so I'm thankful for everybody that has contributed.

Thanks in advance!

 

[BrunDog]

#1: If you are using the two switches to control the level inside the grant, jus have each switch trigger the other's state. It will toggle back and forth, filling and draining the grant. No need for a pause, if that is what you want. There is no way to pause anyway, plus pausing turns all your outputs off.
#2: No
#3: No delay or pause. Each state transition will change what needs be changed, but not turn off then on outputs unnecessarily.
#4: Exit condition is reached. You can set up the exit condition (e.g. timer or input), use 'Wait for Input' as next state, and have the alarm set to loop for that state. The state will effectively pause once the condition is reached, until you clear the alarm and take action. For example, I use this to heat my strike water. Once the temp is met, the alarm goes off, but the temp is maintained.

-BD

 

[crane]

It sounds like you are intending on running your BCS without a computer around since you are adding a button to advance states. This is how my setup is. I have 4 of the 7 segment displays for temperature monitoring, an alarm and an advance button. As BrunDog mentioned when you get to a spot where your involvement is needed you can have the current state sound the alarm and use the next state as a "hold" state. For example you can have a state heat up the strike water and sound the alarm and exit the state to a hold state that keeps the same pump(s) on and same setpoint as the previous state. The hold state will exit when you press the button on your panel. Make sure you enable the "one shot" setting in the settings page for your advance button in case you have any back to back states that all use the button as an exit condition otherwise one press of the button will advance through all states.

If you setup hold states where needed you will never have to pause a process.

 

[BrunDog]

IMO, not having the BCS interface with you live would be a missed opportunity and be difficult to work with.

 

[crane]

IMO, not having the BCS interface with you live would be a missed opportunity and be difficult to work with.

If you know your process well and are on top of your brew day it can work just fine. The only information I wish I had that I can't get now are the timers. Other than that I really have no need for the Web interface during brew day

 

[BrunDog]

Ya, I guess that makes sense. But because iPad or other tablets are easily obtained, it's seems easy to have it on hand.

 

[poptarts]

yea all you need is a computer that can run an internet browser. I snagged an old vista computer off craigslist for $30 pretty much to run beersmith and check on the bcs out in the garage.

 

[thekraken]

yea all you need is a computer that can run an internet browser. I snagged an old vista computer off craigslist for $30 pretty much to run beersmith and check on the bcs out in the garage.

Sounds like a good job for a $5 raspberry pi
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-zero/

 

[poptarts]

Sounds like a good job for a $5 raspberry pi
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-zero/

yea but I also got a mouse / keyboard / monitor for the 30$ price point.

 

[BrunDog]

yea all you need is a computer that can run an internet browser. I snagged an old vista computer off craigslist for $30 pretty much to run beersmith and check on the bcs out in the garage.

Vista?!? Nothing is worth that!!

 

[poptarts]

Vista?!? Nothing is worth that!!

Lol I didnt even boot into it, stuck windows 10 before on it before it even had a chance.

 

[JonW]

Lol I didnt even boot into it, stuck windows 10 before on it before it even had a chance.

What processor & memory does it have? Wondering if any of my older machines would be W10 worthy.

I have to say, the performance of using a Rpi2 with BCS Desktop has been very impressive.

 

[poptarts]

What processor & memory does it have? Wondering if any of my older machines would be W10 worthy.

I have to say, the performance of using a Rpi2 with BCS Desktop has been very impressive.

5gb ram and some e some odd intel dual core. runs 10 just fine for my liking. The G wifi card is definitely the machine bottle neck at the moment.

 

[BrunDog]

I have my RPi on my desk. I need to order the monitor/touchscreen and mount it up.

 

[atoughram]

Lol I didnt even boot into it, stuck windows 10 before on it before it even had a chance.

If you're going to just use it for a browser to BCS, might I interest you in Linux Mint or Ubuntu...

 

[fo0isclay]

Thanks for all the feedback guy! I've been stupid busy lately but just getting back to this. With Xmas sandwiched between two friends weddings, not enough time for my hobbies.

I will have a computer with me live while brewing, and possibly the android app (I believe I saw this was available?) I've explored the idea of touchscreen monitors and all that jazz but at this point i just want to get it up and running. The whole idea behind my design was flexibility, and that's why my panel build included a lot of buttons. I wanted to be able to brew without the screen if i wanted to, but also do a mixuture of panel/computer until i get the process down and figure out exactly how I wanted to program it. I'm sure it'll take me a few brew days to tweak everything to my liking. There's always ways to improve and if you're like me, I get bored easily so I'm sure this project will only lead to something more expansive.

The one lingering question I have, and it's what started the whole "pause button" discussion, is how/when do you change hoses while a process is running? I suppose you could shut valves to kettles, shut the valve on the output side of the pumps while they are still running, disconnect/reconnect, hit my input button for next state and continue the process by opening the pump(s) output ball valve. I just assumed if there was a way to pause everything (without the computer,) this is when you would switch hoses. I know there are ways to do this whole thing without moving hoses, such as utilizing 3 way valves and actuated valves... but for now I will keep it simple. This may change if I get sick of swapping hoses. So that being said, how else does everybody else swap hoses? Is running the pump with the output valve shut for a minute or so an issue? I could program a "hold" state to do this, but for some of my processes I would run out of states.

Sorry that got long winded.

 

[fo0isclay]

So this is an image of the proposed sequence of events for my brew day. I design fire sprinkler systems so I used my design software to draw this up. It's really basic not at all designed for 3D modeling of brewing systems lol... but you get the idea... I'm thinking 3 way valves might be a decent option at this point but actuated valves don't interest me as I want to interact during the brew process...

(hopefully this link works? and hopefully its not too blurry)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8iuS9F-2IT9ekM3QTI3NXN0VXM/view?usp=sharing

 

[thekraken]

I feel ya about the automatic valves and wanting to maintain some interaction.

In regards to the pump, no, running the pump with the output closed is not an issue. IIRC you can run it that way for as long as you want. (I assume we're talking about typical march/chugger)

I see you are incorporating a grant, neat. Something new your going to try, or you already know that's what works best for your system, or?

 

[fo0isclay]

Yeah, I have one march 815, and then i just recently bought another chugger with the center inlet because i heard they are better from the priming standpoint. I haven't tried it out yet but i'll decide for myself which i like better.

The grant is something new that I haven't used yet but i wanted to do because i was getting stuck sparges with my original march pump/Gatorade cooler/false bottom. I tried different things on multiple batches and it was always getting stuck. And i also already had a 4 gallon stainless kettle from my original brewing days back 5 years ago (look at what this hobby as done to me, by me i mean my wallet and free time !!)

 

[fo0isclay]

So, I've spent considerable time designing my 50a 3 vessel HERMS system, utilizing ebrewsupply.com, electricbrewery.com, these message boards, electricans I work with, etc. all as resources. I think I've got a pretty rock solid design, but want to get some outside perspective on my wiring diagram. Does anybody see any serious or danger design flaws with my diagram? Are there any other forums I should be posting in? Thanks in advance y'all.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8iuS9F-2IT9OUR2Rm9yS3drMG8/view?usp=docslist_api

 

[JonW]

I get an error that the document doesn't exist.

Looks like your link got truncated.

 

[fo0isclay]

I provided a new link, sorry.

 

[brewstarke]

The one lingering question I have, and it's what started the whole "pause button" discussion, is how/when do you change hoses while a process is running?

For my first few years with the bcs I had states that were set up for hose changes. Basically just shut down the pumps and looped the alarm. I'd make the changes and advance the state with a din switch. I also had some ladder logic in there that effectively connected a "master" process that ran through the whole brew day, with a timer for the whole day, a mash timer and a boil timer. I then had separate a process for the mash and boil and a hlt control with another set of timers that controlled individual steps within each process. Since then though I've simplified a bit, mostly because of the new interface, but also if I had any issues during the brew day it seemed to be a struggle to get back on track with out screwing up something. KISS... I also upgraded to three way valves to eliminate the hose swaps.
I definitely recommend the bcs app that JonW built, but even the default 4.0 interface is sweet.