Beersmith, Vols, and OG

[David Koepke]

Pardon me since I am a noob to Beersmith and BIAB. I have been tinkering with this for a good part of the day and cannot get anything to match. Here is the problem that I am having:

I use Beersmith and this was my second BIAB. My OGs are off by alot IMO on 5.5 gallon batches. This last batch OG was at 1.045 and was estimated by Beersmith to be 1.055. I have set up the equipment wizard and adjusted the volumes. I do not sparge but I do squeeze my grains. I also double crush the grains. I stirred every 10-15 min throughout the 60 min mash. I do have to add water after removing the grains pre-boil and I do have to add water post boil to get to final batch volume. I am think the problem is I am diluting the wort but after tinkering I still cannot get the OG to match estimated OG. My mash tun basically holds 6.5 gal. I added for top off water. Beersmith continues to tell me that my mash tun is not big enough to hold all the water needed.

Is this a common problem in Beersmith 2? Is there a tutorial that is more help? I have looked on the forums and on Beersmith website and on youtube but none have been super helpful. It is possible my mash efficiency is low but I think I am doing everything right to be in the 80s. I am sure I didn't give you all the full info needed so please ask if I need to provide more. Thanks.

 

[RM-MN]

Pardon me since I am a noob to Beersmith and BIAB. I have been tinkering with this for a good part of the day and cannot get anything to match. Here is the problem that I am having:

I use Beersmith and this was my second BIAB. My OGs are off by alot IMO on 5.5 gallon batches. This last batch OG was at 1.045 and was estimated by Beersmith to be 1.055. I have set up the equipment wizard and adjusted the volumes. I do not sparge but I do squeeze my grains. I also double crush the grains. I stirred every 10-15 min throughout the 60 min mash. I do have to add water after removing the grains pre-boil and I do have to add water post boil to get to final batch volume. I am think the problem is I am diluting the wort but after tinkering I still cannot get the OG to match estimated OG. My mash tun basically holds 6.5 gal. I added for top off water. Beersmith continues to tell me that my mash tun is not big enough to hold all the water needed.

Is this a common problem in Beersmith 2? Is there a tutorial that is more help? I have looked on the forums and on Beersmith website and on youtube but none have been super helpful. It is possible my mash efficiency is low but I think I am doing everything right to be in the 80s. I am sure I didn't give you all the full info needed so please ask if I need to provide more. Thanks.

What is the mill gap that you use? If it is too wide some of the grains can slip through without being crushed....twice. One of the big benefits of BIAB is the ability to utilize grains that are milled very fine since you don't have to worry about a stuck mash or sparge. If possible, tighten the mill.

When you make a batch of wort without sparging you necessarily get a lower brewhouse efficiency. While that can be higher than 80%, with a poorer crush that will be lower. Then you diluted your wort...twice. Beersmith is right, your kettle is not big enough to do a full volume mash so your 80% efficiency may happen but when you add water without using it to recover the sugars left in the grains that efficiency will be much lower.

If you have a way to hold the bag of grains above the kettle a pour over sparge is the simplest way to recover some of the sugars. That could be a pulley system or a colander or grate to set the bag of grains on while you pour water over the bag. Lacking that, set the bag of grains into a bucket and pour the water into that, dunking the bag a few times to get the most sugars you can.

 

[Gravelscratcher]

Are dough balls a possibility? Did you stir the grains in well, while you poured them in? Too many DB's could be a problem w/ efficiency.

 

[Oginme]

You comment that you are diluting the wort, do you have this dilution volume in your equipment profile? If you have entered your volumes and gravity readings into the 'session' tab, then the program will calculate out your BH efficiency versus the target you entered in your equipment profile on the session tab under the 'brewhouse efficiency' column. You can use this to adjust your equipment profile to account for your specific crush and extraction/conversion efficiency.

 

[David Koepke]

What is the mill gap that you use? If it is too wide some of the grains can slip through without being crushed....twice. One of the big benefits of BIAB is the ability to utilize grains that are milled very fine since you don't have to worry about a stuck mash or sparge. If possible, tighten the mill.

I had to have the LHBS crush them since I do not have a mill.

Are dough balls a possibility? Did you stir the grains in well, while you poured them in? Too many DB's could be a problem w/ efficiency.

Definitely no dough balls. I got rid of them first thing.

You comment that you are diluting the wort, do you have this dilution volume in your equipment profile? If you have entered your volumes and gravity readings into the 'session' tab, then the program will calculate out your BH efficiency versus the target you entered in your equipment profile on the session tab under the 'brewhouse efficiency' column. You can use this to adjust your equipment profile to account for your specific crush and extraction/conversion efficiency.

I believe I do but I am struggling with knowing if it is right or not since I cannot find a tutorial to match it up with. It doesn't help since the estimate OG doesn't match. I was going to use this to confirm I have it set up correctly. Next batch I could take more hydrometer readings at end of mash and pre-boil and input that into the session data to see if that helps me figure out where there is an issue and trying sparging instead of top off water only.

 

[Oginme]

If you want to upload your recipe as a .bsmx file, I can look at it and see where you can improve your equipment profile to get it to match your process. To export it, highlight (not open) the recipe and then click on 'file' > 'export selected' and save it as a .bsmx file.

 

[RM-MN]

I had to have the LHBS crush them since I do not have a mill.

Many LHBS do not crush the grains well and that badly affects the mash efficiency. A mill of your own is a good investment and does not need to be expensive for BIAB. I have one like this and it works very well. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016IYOBT2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

You may find them for less money if you search for Corona style grain mill. Having your own mill allows you to choose how finely you want the grain milled and can allow you to buy in bulk. Between the lower cost of grain bought in bulk and the lesser amount needed with the better milling it won't take long to pay for the mill.

 

[soccerdad]

In my opinion, water volumes are one of the hardest things to get right (early on) because of the number of variables .. your specific equipment profile, your specific boil off rate, the specific grain bill of a specific recipe, etc, etc.

If water volume is a question for you - and you wonder if BSM has it right, do a double check with the priceless BIAB calculator or with the biababacus.

Some folks will use a sparge step, especially if they want a minimum of 5 gallons of beer, and they have a smallish kettle with a grain bill that maxes out the volume. In other words, to get 5 G of beer they might add grain to 6 G of water and then dunk sparge in another 1.5 G of water.

For me It's easier to reduce the finished beer volume in order to maintain the concept of Full Volume Mash, No Sparge, BIAB. But you define your process .. more than 1 way to skin the catfish

 

[KortzBrewhouse]

You could always mash w less and then pour over the bag of grains until you get the right amount before boil. This is what I have done before and it works great. I usually heat up as much as I can and then pull off 1-2 gallons to sparge w and put in a cooler to keep it warm until my mash is complete. Do you have marks on your kettle? If not maybe mark a spoon w gallon and half gallon so you know how much you have. Good luck.

 

[David Koepke]

Many LHBS do not crush the grains well and that badly affects the mash efficiency. A mill of your own is a good investment and does not need to be expensive for BIAB. I have one like this and it works very well. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016IYOBT2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

That is really reasonable. I will probably go ahead and get one. On a style like this one, how fine to do you set the grind?

If you want to upload your recipe as a .bsmx file, I can look at it and see where you can improve your equipment profile to get it to match your process. To export it, highlight (not open) the recipe and then click on 'file' > 'export selected' and save it as a .bsmx file.

Thanks for your help. I have exported it but the forum does not allow me to attach it-says not an allowed file extension. My mash tun is 7.5 gall and I can mash about 7gal in it comfortably. I got 6 gall in the fermenter. I have a fast fermeter conical and expect .5gal trub loss.

 

[Smellyglove]

That is really reasonable. I will probably go ahead and get one. On a style like this one, how fine to do you set the grind?



Thanks for your help. I have exported it but the forum does not allow me to attach it-says not an allowed file extension. My mash tun is 7.5 gall and I can mash about 7gal in it comfortably. I got 6 gall in the fermenter. I have a fast fermeter conical and expect .5gal trub loss.

Just change the file extension before you upload, and tell us what we should rename it back to.

I believe the first place you should look is all that water added at different stages. It can really mess up calculations. Also if you have loss to trub filled in with any volume, it will mess up even more, as BS calculates top up water in a profile which has loss to trub in a imho stupid way. Maybe ditch it for a few brews, get your efficiencies dialed in on smaller batches, and scale up, for instance. Or just measure A LOT, at least befor you start adding water left and right.

 

[David Koepke]

If you want to upload your recipe as a .bsmx file, I can look at it and see where you can improve your equipment profile to get it to match your process. To export it, highlight (not open) the recipe and then click on 'file' > 'export selected' and save it as a .bsmx file.

 

[Oginme]

OK, here is what I see from your recipe/profiles:

You are topping off the kettle with a gallon of water. Your gravity reading post mash is 1.045. Is this after you add your gallon of water? If this is the case then your actual gravity from the mash tun would have been 1.054. Note the difference between the gravity post mash and the gravity pre-boil is the addition of the top off water to the boil kettle.

If your 1.045 gravity is out of the mash tun, then the pre-boil gravity after the top off water has been added would have been 1.038, hence after boiling your reading of 1.045, since your boil off rate is pretty much a gallon.

This is an important data point to clarify and key to how you proceed.

If your pre-boil gravity (with the top off water) was indeed 1.045, then I suspect that your final reading was off. I use a refractometer during the process to verify my gravity at each stage, but always wash the refractometer and check against distilled water and then take several readings to get a consistent value. It is easy to take a sample which is not consistent with the bulk of the wort with just a few drops. I'v also seen issues with using a spoon that has dried wort on it giving higher readings as the dried sugars dissolve into the hot wort just scooped up.

Start there and see how things work out.

 

[RM-MN]

That is really reasonable. I will probably go ahead and get one. On a style like this one, how fine to do you set the grind?

I have mine set as tight as I can and still turn the crank without much difficulty empty. It sounds terrible but it is cast iron and will last for years this way. BTW, the first time I tried this I overshot the expected OG by nearly 20 points and had to drink much stronger beer than I had expected.

 

[David Koepke]

If your 1.045 gravity is out of the mash tun, then the pre-boil gravity after the top off water has been added would have been 1.038, hence after boiling your reading of 1.045, since your boil off rate is pretty much a gallon.

Thanks for your help. I should take more readings next time I only took the reading cooled while racking to fermenter but that makes sense that the top off water through off the reading.