Beersmith temps way off - What could be wrong

[dmbnpj]

My setup consists of 3 keggles including one for the mash tun. For several recipes now that I have put into beersmith, it tells me to heat the initial mash water to anywhere between 160-175 degrees depending on the recipe. It does say to preheat the mash tun, which I do with boiling water. If I follow beersmiths instructions to use that 160-175 degree water and then add the grains, the temperature falls to under 140 at least, or even lower. I have found that my initial mash water needs to be around 200 degrees in order for when I add the grains my mash temperature reach the normal 154 degrees.
I use a quilt and wrap that around my mash tun. I am also using brand new brewmometers double checked by a floating thermometer.

Why would beersmith be so off on this temperature issue?

 

[Yooper]

I don't know. But it sounds crazy that you have 200 degree water, and add your grain to that to get 154 degrees. Usually, about 11 degrees above strike temperature for room temperature grains will be about right.

Are your grains in the freezer, or otherwise exceptionally cold? Is your thermometer correct?

 

[weirdboy]

Do you have your equipment set up correctly in beer smith?

Are you sufficiently stirring the mash?

Are you sure that your temperature readings are correct?

 

[dmbnpj]

The thermometers I use are brewmometers and are all brand new from the local brew store. I have not calibrated them since they are brand new. But, I am double checking with a floating thermometer and the temps are fairly close to each other so I am guessing they are correct.

Yes, I am stirring the crap out of the mash.

My equipment that I have selected in brewsmith is the 15 gallon brewing system, stainelss steel mash tun material.

Sometimes I am pulling the grains out of the fridge but I let them sit to room temperature before they actually go into the mash.

 

[RunBikeBrew]

I've had a hard time trying to calibrate Beersmith to the heat capacity of my equipment. The way around this is to add the water to the MLT first (usually 10-15F hotter than strike temp), let it stabilize, then cool to strike temp, then add grain. This takes the equipment heatup out of the equation.

 

[dmbnpj]

Glad to see someone else was having this problem as well. Have you noticed though when you add the grain it can drop an unbelievable amount sometimes in upwards of 30 degrees?

 

[weirdboy]

Are you adjusting your grain temperature appropriately in the mash settings?

 

[wildwest450]

I don't believe this to be a beersmith problem, but a user error(don't take offense). There's no way you should need 200f water, unless your doing something out of the ordinary.

I just checked my last 10 batches and the initial temps were all between 165f and 171f, I always add 2f to what it tells me. I brew with grains that are in the 60f range.

And your temps shouldn't drop 30f, it's just not reasonable. Can you give us your average grain size and amount of strike water? I would bet serious cash on a thermometer problem.

I will never use analog thermometers in brewing, to many inaccuracies reported.

 

[Zen_Brew]

I'd tend to agree it is not a beersmith problem. My temps are always ballpark correct for a cooler.

Since you are pre-heating your mash tun with boiling water, I assume inside of 15-20minutes before mash in that should not be your problem.

That only leaves a few things as far as I can think.

1) Your thermometers are way off.

2) You are mashing extremely thin with a small amount of water.

3) You say you refrigerate your grains, but pull them out of the fridge to let them come to room temps. How long before brewing do you remove them? How many pounds of grains? I would think a large mass of grains, say 10-15 lbs for 5 gallon batches or 20-30 lbs if you are 10 gallon, would take many many hours to come to ambient temperature. Try shoving one of your thermometers in that grain before you put it in the mash. I bet its 45-55 degrees.

 

[The Pol]

If you do the math, there is no physical way that your temp. can drop from 170 to 140 simply by adding the grains.

If you mash in with 170F water
Grains are 32F
1.5qt/lb
Your rest temp will be 155F
15F drop

If your grains are "room temp" then:
Grains are 68F
1.5qt/lb
Your strike water needs to be 166F
Your rest will be 155F
11F drop

Lets go WAY extreme:
Grains 32F
1.0qt/lb ratio
155F rest temp
179F strike water temp


Again, there is NO WAY that you are losing 30F when you mash in, physically impossible, it is simple math.

You have some really badly calibrated thermometers or sumpin.

FWIW, I ONLY use digital and calibratable thermometers when brewing. They are accurate to +/-1F and for less than $30 each

 

[The Pol]

I'd tend to agree it is not a beersmith problem. My temps are always ballpark correct for a cooler.

Since you are pre-heating your mash tun with boiling water, I assume inside of 15-20minutes before mash in that should not be your problem.

That only leaves a few things as far as I can think.

1) Your thermometers are way off.

2) You are mashing extremely thin with a small amount of water.

Even at 1qt/lb, his numbers do not work, I think you meant to say mashing THICK

3) You say you refrigerate your grains, but pull them out of the fridge to let them come to room temps. How long before brewing do you remove them? How many pounds of grains? I would think a large mass of grains, say 10-15 lbs for 5 gallon batches or 20-30 lbs if you are 10 gallon, would take many many hours to come to ambient temperature. Try shoving one of your thermometers in that grain before you put it in the mash. I bet its 45-55 degrees

Even at 32F, his numbers do not work.

Just my simple .02

 

[The Pol]

Glad to see someone else was having this problem as well. Have you noticed though when you add the grain it can drop an unbelievable amount sometimes in upwards of 30 degrees?

This is impossible, even if you mash super thick (1.0qt/lb) and your grains are 32F... it wont happen.

There is one scenario where it is possible:

Strike temp 170F
Grain temp 0F
Mash ratio 1qt/lb
Rest temp 140F

There, it is possible... I stand corrected

 

[Bobby_M]

You're using a keg. It's metal and it has a very big heat capacity. You're preheating, but not as well as beersmith is assuming. See, I doubt you're filling it with the same volume of boiling water that the strike + grain is so after you drain your preheat, you fill the tun much higher with grain and exposes cold metal.

I don't know much about beersmith's equipment calibration because I use BTP, but if you perform the calibration using volumes that simulate your typical mash, it will probably tell you to go in hot like 190F. You have to consider the ambient temp which affects both the heat the grains will pull as well as the keg tun.

Do you have the ability to heat your strike water directly in the mash tun? If so, you completely remove the keg's heat capacity out of the equation.

If not, I'd suggest you stop preheating with separate water. It's a waste of time. If your strike water volume is 5 gallons, heat that 5 gallons to 190 and put it in the tun. Wrap it with whatever insulation you normally use, cover it and wait 5-10 minutes. When the temp hits the Beersmith target when the "preheated tun" is selected, then dough in. This will give you more insight into how much heat the keg takes, but don't forget it's going to be different by season.

 

[JVD_X]

The thermometers I use are brewmometers and are all brand new from the local brew store. I have not calibrated them since they are brand new. But, I am double checking with a floating thermometer and the temps are fairly close to each other so I am guessing they are correct.

Yes, I am stirring the crap out of the mash.

My equipment that I have selected in brewsmith is the 15 gallon brewing system, stainelss steel mash tun material.

Sometimes I am pulling the grains out of the fridge but I let them sit to room temperature before they actually go into the mash.

It sounds to me that you are not adjusting the brewsheet to account for the starting temperature of the grain.

Also, your best bet is to fill your tun with 200 degree strike water and then let it sit until it reaches the temp listed on the brewsheet. Be sure to stir the strike to make sure it is evenly distributed. When you hit temp then add your grain a little at a time until everything is doughed in correctly.

Do you have the ability to heat your strike water directly in the mash tun? If so, you completely remove the keg's heat capacity out of the equation.

Beersmith does account for this. When you set up your equipment you can define the material and weight of the tun.

 

[Zen_Brew]

Originally Posted by Zen_Brew
I'd tend to agree it is not a beersmith problem. My temps are always ballpark correct for a cooler.

Since you are pre-heating your mash tun with boiling water, I assume inside of 15-20minutes before mash in that should not be your problem.

That only leaves a few things as far as I can think.

1) Your thermometers are way off.

2) You are mashing extremely thin with a small amount of water.

Even at 1qt/lb, his numbers do not work, I think you meant to say mashing THICK

3) You say you refrigerate your grains, but pull them out of the fridge to let them come to room temps. How long before brewing do you remove them? How many pounds of grains? I would think a large mass of grains, say 10-15 lbs for 5 gallon batches or 20-30 lbs if you are 10 gallon, would take many many hours to come to ambient temperature. Try shoving one of your thermometers in that grain before you put it in the mash. I bet its 45-55 degrees

Even at 32F, his numbers do not work.

There goes The Pol again ruining a perfectly good half baked theory with math and logic.

 

[samc]

I use a keggle mash tun and I put my water in at BTP suggested water temps which are usually 10-12F above mash temps. I don't wait at all for it to equalize like I used to with the cooler tun's, and I hit my temps after a quick stir.

I think you are nodding off and sleeping for 15 minutes . . . that's the only logical answer or your thermometers are completely screwed up.

 

[The Pol]

FWIW...

I used to use the Taylor TruTemp $5 thermometers from Target. Of course I had the temp controllers on the HERMS set, but these were to double check my MLT temp. I wanted to have a better, waterproof and calibratable set, so I went out and spent $25 per thermo to get them. Guess what.

That thermo from Target, is only 1F higher at 32F and 1F lower at boiling than the calibrated +-1F calibratable thermometers. The two calibratable thermometers match at 32F and differ by .2F at boiling... they are wicked nice, but the Target TruTemp Taylor digital thermometers are pretty damn accurate for what they are!

Go to Target and get a $5 digital thermometer, they are more accurate than an analog brewmometer. We have a slushie machine so it is really easy to make the ice water slurry to check them at 32F. We never use it for slushies, go figure!

 

[petep1980]

Beersmith's sparge water temps are always wrong.

Explain to me how you're supposed to mash out 154°F mash to 170°F by adding 170°F water..... You can separately use the mash adjust conversion tool for more adequate sparge temps.

As far as strike water, you need to know your system to accurately predict temp drop.

 

[weirdboy]

Explain to me how you're supposed to mash out 154°F mash to 170°F by adding 170°F water..... You can separately use the mash adjust conversion tool for more adequate sparge temps.

I think you are misreading the brewsheet, or you've got some bizarre screwed-up custom mash that you're using. Mash out water temp is usually around 200F on my system, followed by a sparge with the water at 170F or so.