Beersmith IBU/flameout query

[RustyHorn]

The more I think about it, the more I think it's really obvious. However, I'll ask anyway to be sure...
When adding hops at flameout, do I put them into beersmith as steeping rather than as a zero minute boil addition? Zero minute boil additions say zero IBUs which is surely wrong, right?!

 

[brewfun]

If you have any significant steeping time, then yes, add them as a Steep/Whirlpool addition and specify the stand time.

 

[RustyHorn]

If you have any significant steeping time, then yes, add them as a Steep/Whirlpool addition and specify the stand time.

Excellent. Thank you
I take it I should also adjust my boil time to include the steeping time?

 

[IslandLizard]

If you have any significant steeping time, then yes, add them as a Steep/Whirlpool addition and specify the stand time.

Does BS calculate IBUs for Hopstands/Aroma Steep? My version doesn't.

I usually estimate it or if I need to have more exact numbers, I'll enter them as 5' or 10' additions, as some isomerization takes place above 190°F. Once below that temp, it becomes insignificant or nil.

I make note of the calculated IBUs, before changing them to Aroma Steep hops.

 

[IslandLizard]

Excellent. Thank you
I take it I should also adjust my boil time to include the steeping time?

If you're steeping above 200-205°F maybe, but below, I wouldn't.

 

[brewfun]

Excellent. Thank you
I take it I should also adjust my boil time to include the steeping time?

Not necessarily. If you're doing a delicate beer with <50 IBU and you're very precise about the actual AA% of your hops, it *might* make a difference.

Isomerization is mostly done in the first 20 to 30 minutes of boil contact time, then it plateaus and IBUs rise a lot more slowly per minute.

BeerSmith calculates the boil & steep/whirlpool separately. If you have a lot of late kettle additions, then I can see a reason to account for the time. Especially if this creates the bulk of your IBUs. However, once you pass the 50 IBU mark, things start to change and taste perception isn't that much different.

The current state of hop research is typically <50 IBU and there is only one study that I know of about whirlpool isomerization and it finds that Cohumulone isomerizes much faster than other Alpha acids. Cohumulone is considered responsible for a "coarser" bittering texture so it's perception can seem like more IBUs than are actually there.

For me, the BeerSmith Whirlpool/Steep time corresponds very closely with lab measured IBU content. It's user adjustable by going to Options > Bittering. I have my WP utilization set for 50% (I think the default is 40%).

 

[brewfun]

Does BS calculate IBUs for Hopstands/Aroma Steep? My version doesn't.

Version 2.2 does calculate the IBUs. You have to give a steep time to the hop addition. It defaults to zero.

 

[Oginme]

If you enter the hops as a steep/whirlpool addition and set the time of steeping, do not change your boil time. This will only extend the amount of boil in BeerSmith and then add the hop whirlpool time to the end of the boil.

I set the hops at a zero minute (flameout) addition when I am sticking the chiller in right at flameout and chilling right away. Otherwise, I use the steep/whirlpool addition.

IslandLizard: if you are using BeerSmith 2, then click on update within BeerSmith to add the feature. It is a relatively recent addition to the software.

 

[IslandLizard]

If you enter the hops as a steep/whirlpool addition and set the time of steeping, do not change your boil time. This will only extend the amount of boil in BeerSmith and then add the hop whirlpool time to the end of the boil.

I set the hops at a zero minute (flameout) addition when I am sticking the chiller in right at flameout and chilling right away. Otherwise, I use the steep/whirlpool addition.

That makes sense. However, 0-minute hops have always been on my questionable practices list, as I feel much of their potential is being wasted. Either add at flameout and chill quickly to 170-190°F or first chill to that range before adding. Then let them steep with or without extended whirlpooling (up to an hour) to extract the goodness from them without evaporating 3/4 of the aroma.

The basis of that idea lies here. In a commercial brewery it takes a long time, say up to an hour, to bring kettle/whirlpool temperatures down, and the hops keep extracting during that whole process.

IslandLizard: if you are using BeerSmith 2, then click on update within BeerSmith to add the feature. It is a relatively recent addition to the software.

Thanks, it's time to get the update then. I didn't realize useful additions were made. Perhaps I was wishfully waiting for 3.0 to be released sometime soon.

 

[Oginme]

That makes sense. However, 0-minute hops have always been on my questionable practices list, as I feel much of their potential is being wasted. Either add at flameout and chill quickly to 170-190°F or first chill to that range before adding. Then let them steep with or without extended whirlpooling (up to an hour) to extract the goodness from them without evaporating 3/4 of the aroma.

The basis of that idea lies here. In a commercial brewery it takes a long time, say up to an hour, to bring kettle/whirlpool temperatures down, and the hops keep extracting during that whole process.



Thanks, it's time to get the update then. I didn't realize useful additions were made. Perhaps I was wishfully waiting for 3.0 to be released sometime soon.

I agree with the 0-minute hop additions being mostly "wasted" but I calibrate by using my taste buds and feel that with certain hops the 0-minute addition more closely correlates with my experiences. Mostly low alpha, low total oil hops when not added in great amounts.

If you have BS2, then the updates are free until Brad releases BS3. Just look for updates through the software.

 

[beerkench]

I think the hop stand feature needs to be improved.
I use lots of late hops and say I add 4oz at 5 mins then Beersmith calculates the IBU's up to 0 min but if I'm doing a hop stand addition of say 30 mins then the 5 min addition should be adjusted too as it's getting a 5 min boil and a 30 min stand.