Beer with 100% or 80% barley

[letsbrew]

Hello guys,


Do you know something about the enzyme Speedase ?

I see some guys use it to make whisky from grains but i was wondering
if i can use some enzyme to brew a beer with barley (if they use with whisky why not with beer :cross: ).


One think i can do its to try with a grain bill of 80% barley and 20% malt and see if the present enzymes can do the work, but if the use of speedase can make the conversion would be nice


See ya!!

 

[Double_D]

Brewing malt is made from barley. Malting is the process of getting the grain to germinate by holding it at a specific temp/time/humidity. So.. what are you going for? The malt has enough enzymes to convert it's starch and plenty more for other grain. I know for you sure you can go up to 50% malt and 50% adjunct.

Adding enzymes will take your s.g. down to zero. Leaving nothing behind in the way of flavor/body and you'll just have an extremely dry beer with no character. Whiskey people/ distillers use enzymes to achieve a maximum volume of fermentable liquid.

 

[Germelli1]

I'm guessing maybe malted barley is hard to get or expensive in your area? That makes sense for the question unless you don't understand the difference between malted and unmalted.

There are ways to replicate the Amalyse emzyme in the 2row/6row malted barley...beano, saliva, etc!

 

[letsbrew]

Thats right guys i brew beer with malted barley but there is a proyect here in Michoacan, Mexico where i can get a decent loan many money . The point its to own a land where you can cultivate some product and if you transform the goods into a product you could get that money and you dont need to give the money back

Here in my state is the number one producer of barley in all Mexico, the metric tone costs around 300-350 us dll but if i can produce the grain will be cheaper.


Double D have you ever brewed a beer with 50% barley as an adjunt? i guess i will have to gelatinize it in a ceral tun before adding to the mash too.

Germelli1 if i add less enzymes or if i stop the conversion by using mash-out to leave unconverted starches or allow the added enzyme to converte the hole material into sugars and by making a starter with another or a mix of diferent sugars to allow the yeast eats some of the sugars wort (not every kind-type of sugar to try to leave some flavor and body)? i dont know could works or not hehehe

This sounds like many experiments to do hehehe

 

[Germelli1]

Sounds like a good homesteading opportunity! I don't know the figures off of the top of my head, but 6 row malted barley has more conversion power than 2 row so that would be a better candidate for a large adjunct recipe.

You sound like you have a great handle on the mashing process! You can buy amylaze enzyme (cant for the life of me remember how to spell it) on its own from home brew stores. It is the same thing as the medicine "Beano" but if you got your hands on the enzyme itself I Imagine you could be much more precise. You could either mash out to raise the temperature and denature the enzymes or just get it to a boil soon after sparging to denature it that way!

I think what this will come down to is experimentation. Get your hands on a few pounds of both unmalted and malted barley then try a small mash. You can test for starch-to-sugar conversion using iodine or just ferment it out and see how the product turns out!

It will also take some experimentation to find a recipe that actually tastes good, but I am sure it can be done!

I know it is a lot easier said than done, but you could try and malt some yourself...not on a large commercial scale but enough for your brewing endeavors!

 

[944play]

You can make "beer" with any old starch and the appropriate enzymes, but it won't really taste or smell properly "beery" without a healthy proportion of malt.

 

[letsbrew]

Yes i will try to get that enzyme and see what happens also some chinesse suppliers sell a small malting system around 30,000 dll and you can malt 200kg or per day thats a decent quantity .

I will post any result with this experiment xD

944play yes maybe will be necesary to use some amount of malt to give flavor to the beer somebody say "dry beer"


Now i have to get some enzymes hehehe


All the best! wait for any news!

 

[Germelli1]

(not every kind-type of sugar to try to leave some flavor and body)? i dont know could works or not hehehe

Another thing I want to point out (forgive me if you are already aware of this) but the fermntability of your extract from the mash is directly determined by the mash temperatures. This is the reason why most of our mashing temps are usually the most precisely monitored and controlled part of beer making (with fermentation temps tied for first or a close second). This is also why some recipes call for different temperatures. 145-150 *F will give you a more fermentable wort, and lead to a dryer end product. 150-156 *F will give you a less fermentable but more malty end product.

 

[Germelli1]

You really only need minimal equipment to malt your own barley! One member here has tried it and documented his process, let me try and find it. Basically you would just need to soak the barley to get it to sprout, then "roast" it to end the process, dry it out and achieve the flavor you are looking for. This can be done on a small scale in an oven, and would be even better if you had some sort of outdoor oven or kiln!

Found it! https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/happiness-home-malting-107409/

 

[lurker18]

I think what is being asked is if beer can be made with 100% unmalted barley and use a seperate enzyme soup to do the converting. Answer is yes. At work they are testing this right now to see what % of a recipie can be made up with unmalted grains and additional enzymes. This will be more for the mega breweries in times of tight malt barley supplies or lower quality. As we all know, every process adds to the cost, so if the big boys can make a batch of beer with 1000 tonnes of malt and 2000 tonnes of unmalted barley plus enzymes, it will be far less expensive to make that a beer made with 3000 tonnes of malt. And of course they will be charging the consumer the same price for the beer, so the profit margins will be way up. Good for everyone,.

I will try finding a recent article about this and post a link.

http://www.producer.com/Search/Article.aspx?aid=38126

 

[Germelli1]

Very cool lurker, thans for post that article!

 

[HairyDogBrewing]

Most malt used in beer is grown at higher latitudes - North Dakota, Canada, Scotland.
Maybe it makes better beer or it's more profitable or both.

The beer style American Pilsner was developed as a way to use 6-row barley and corn.
All 6-row is too grainy or husky.
Corn is used because it is inexpensive and it dilutes the flavor.

You will have to get samples of your local barley, malt it, and make some beer.
If it tastes good try half and half malted and unmalted.
Try other local starches as adjuncts - corn, wheat, rice, agave, taro, plantains.
Or use sugar, molasses, candi syrup, maple sap, fruit juice.
I don't know what will taste good, my point is to try whatever is available.

My best guess is that it won't taste like beer unless you use at least 50% malted barley.
But you might invent something totally new and become famous!

 

[IXVolt]

Just a side note:

Growing barley suitable for malting requires a healthy amount of Nitrogen. This has the side effect of reduced kernel size. So it costs more than normal barley, and the production is less.

There's also a fine line between malt grade and feed grade barley.

 

[lurker18]

Actually, you would use less Nitrogen for malt barley than for feed, and the N would create higher protein content in the barley, and for malt, that is not good. The downside to not using th N is less yeild. If you plant for malt barley and don't get it, it goes to feed barley, which returns less $/bu. So you have less yeild and less value which equals less $/acre.

Agree that there is a fine line between malt and feed.

You do not grow malt barley. You plant a variety that is suitable for malting and mother nature decides if you get malt barley or feed. Once the seed is in the ground, there is not a lot you can do to push it one way or the other.

 

[letsbrew]

yes playing with beta and aplha enzymes we can try to achieve light or heavier body and you give a good idea to get a beer with more flavor, i dont know if the comercial enzymes are beta or alpha. And also why nt try to build a cool malting system (home system of course) i havent readed the article but one thing i guess its impoortan its that you have to harm-heat up the air with a heat plate exchanger(i hope the word its right) to avoid form a cancerogenic substance ( i saw that info in a video of Anchor Brewing company) you have to avoid to heat the air with directed fire-flames.

lurker18 that info in that article its nice we will have to be aware of future news and see the results of that experiment i found this company in Mexico they sell some kind of ewnzymes http://www.enmex.com.mx/# but i have a deyavu hehehe last year i went to a congres and one guy said he sold enzymes, this years i will go once again well im going to go once again and i hope to see the same guy and ask directly this is the congres http://www.cervezamexico.mx/congreso.html. I gues the point its that a craft beer doesnt lose its identity if you add some unmalted barley because your are not adding any artificial ingredient (i guess enzymes are mostly produced with some especies of fungus, so the enzymes are the by-products of those fungus-microsganisms)

what a cool listing hehehe!