Beer Sales being Pulled from Ebay

[Lazarous]

selling the beer takes the control out of the brewers hands anyway. the brewer carefully crafts the brew then sells it to someone who may keep it in their driveway for 2 months then serves it at a party, what will people think? most people dislike the whole idea of scalping especially when the price is many times the original price but this brewer is charging at windmills.

Many breweries have specific criteria that the retailers they sell their brews to must accommodate, for example Russian River will not sell their beer (it may just be their bottles brews I'm not positive about keged beer) to distributors and retailers who do not agree to both ship and store the beer cold. I realize that your everyday consumer picking up a bottle from the bottle shop won't necessarily accommodate this but the point being a brewery does have some amount of control over how their product is treated, up until it is in the hands of the consumer that is

 

[ktblunden]

But that's why the arbitrage opportunity exists. If the other could participate, market price equilibrates and arbitrage disappears.

An example of Coase Theorem at work.

Adam buys beer from Brewery at price "P"
Bob cannot buy beer from Brewery at price "P"
So Adam sells beer to Bob for Price "P1", making a profit (P1-P) = π
Adam prefers $π to Beer
Bob prefers Beer to $P1, so both are made better off by the transaction.

The question is, as π grows considerably, how does the Brewery extract more π from Adam, and what are the Brewery's property rights concerning π?

The brewery's recourse is to raise price P until price P1 is no longer an attractive option. By the time the price gets high enough to kill the secondary market, the demand in the primary market will likely also be below supply. In other words, the brewery can complain about the small percentage of people profiting off their beers in the secondary market or they can suck it up and realize that they have a product so popular they can't meet demand and enjoy the profits they get from that.

 

[motobrewer]

But that's why the arbitrage opportunity exists. If the other could participate, market price equilibrates and arbitrage disappears

is that the only way arbitrage exists? If one party is legally disallowed from participating in the other market?

 

[TyTanium]

is that the only way arbitrage exists? If one party is legally disallowed from participating in the other market?

Not at all...exists when any inefficiency is present.

One could argue this isn't arbitrage at all, or at least not entirely. The seller bears the risk of reselling, cost of transporting, cost of storage, cost of acquiring the good, and time involved in doing so...so it's not truly a riskless, cash-neutral transaction at all. One could argue they bring a service to the market (distributing hard-to-find beers) and are being compensated for such services.

 

[motobrewer]

well, yes, i mean, that explains why the arbitrage opportunity exists.

my point was, that it is unfair because the brewer isn't allowed to participate in that market, legally.

 

[Homercidal]

You can't kill people with the gun you own. Can't make meth in the home you own.

Point is, what you do with what you own often has externalities that affect others beyond yourself, both positive and negative. When negatives grow, that's typically when the gov't/regulators step in, for better or for worse.

But you could buy a case of BMC and sell it to your neighbor as long as they are not underage.

 

[Phunhog]

But you could buy a case of BMC and sell it to your neighbor as long as they are not underage.

Ummm....pretty sure that is illegal.

 

[grimstuff]

Ummm....pretty sure that is illegal.

So is jaywalking.

 

[Homercidal]

Ummm....pretty sure that is illegal.

So you say I can't go to the corner store and buy some Blatz and take it to my neighbor? I'm fairly naive about that stuff, so I wouldn't be totally shocked if that was the case.

What if we go to a party at a friends house and someone calls and says, "Hey, can you pick up a 6-pack of All-Day IPA for me?" And you stop at the store and pick up a few things and when you get to the party they pay you for the 6-pack and that's illegal?

How about when you need your roof re-done and the neighbor comes over and helps you out "for a couple of beers"? Technically he's paid for the beer with the work he did, right?

Or when you go out on a date and get your girl drunk and later you have "intimacies". Technically you know she paid you back for the drinks with physical favors....

 

[GNBRennes]

Don't think its against the law to buy a case of beer and you don't like it or something then sell it to a friend or neighbor. Just like its not against the law to have a cover charge on a party with free give aways of homebrews. And if these are laws... well WTH break them anyways because its not breaking the law until you get caught. Then you can just say, I didn't know I couldn't do that officer.

Anyways those are small time things that do not matter and if we worried about them all we would be overflowing our prisons... oh wait we already are.

 

[TyTanium]

My point was not to debate minor legalities. My point was that gov't/regulators step in when negative externalities resulting from use of private property become sufficiently large. Such may be the case here.

 

[TKOriginal]

Technically you know she paid you back for the drinks with physical favors....

Oh College

Speaking of College

Just like its not against the law to have a cover charge on a party with free give aways of homebrews.

In some communities it is considered Bootlegging and is punishable by fine and jail time. I will tell you this is actively enforced in Cedar Falls Iowa by undercover police officers.

I realize I contributed very little to this discussion. Off to Ebay to buy some "bottles" while i still can.

 

[iambeer]

Oh College

Speaking of College In some communities it is considered Bootlegging and is punishable by fine and jail time. I will tell you this is actively enforced in Cedar Falls Iowa by undercover police officers.

I realize I contributed very little to this discussion. Off to Ebay to buy some "bottles" while i still can.

I will probably never set a foot in Iowa. I'm not sure it really exists.

I feel like I should also go to ebay to buy "bottles".

 

[eastoak]

Many breweries have specific criteria that the retailers they sell their brews to must accommodate, for example Russian River will not sell their beer (it may just be their bottles brews I'm not positive about keged beer) to distributors and retailers who do not agree to both ship and store the beer cold. I realize that your everyday consumer picking up a bottle from the bottle shop won't necessarily accommodate this but the point being a brewery does have some amount of control over how their product is treated, up until it is in the hands of the consumer that is

that is what i was referring to, i would guess they are the people selling on ebay and not a distributor.

 

[zeg]

I'd be extremely surprised if reselling beer to your neighbor were actually legal anywhere in the US. It's a minor violation, so no one is likely to notice, but that doesn't make it legal. (Note: I'm thinking of the case where you buy it, then separately sell it to him. This is probably different from if he gave you the money and you brought it home for him.)

The ebay sales are quite clearly illegal in many or most US places, so the various examples of the unfairness due to the asymmetry are spot on.

Other than this, though, the brewery has no moral right to object to resale of its goods unless it wants to negotiate (or demand) an explicit agreement not to re-sell its products. I have heard of this happeneing, maybe with one of the Pliny beers, and in that case it's different. But if they are selling the product openly, then their only further claim would be a trademark violation. That would only apply if someone were misrepresenting the product---say, refilling the bottle with another product or claiming to be an authorized distributor or reseller.

 

[jerseybrewing]

I think that the breweries that were doing most of the yelling against it may find their "sold out in a day" releases lingering longer. I have bought, sold, and traded beer for years and was happy to have a chance at things i could only get if I bought a plane ticket. To me, I was saving time and money. I dont need to try every beer, I dont even rate them. I do want the opportunity to try the ones i want to try though. Without ebay, that changed the landscape and made it infinitely more difficult to obtain rare beers. Personally i hope that Russian river, hill farmsteads hill, and cantillon find out their beer is not that popular outside the hoarders and the hoarders ability to get the beer to people outside their small distribution network. They may have to come down from their High hill. I know i wont buy another bottle from any of the 3 above thanks to their efforts, sounds childish but so does the whining... I mean efforts these breweries made to stop ebay sales. Hopefully more people will follow and find better breweries to follow. there are plenty!

 

[mforsman]

if someone was brewing beer, putting it in hill farmstead bottles and selling them this brewer would have a legitimate gripe. once the item is sold it belongs to the buyer, maybe he should start leasing the beer?

I never buy or lease beer. I just rent it! In one end, out the other a bit later.

 

[motobrewer]

what about....buying a typed list of rare beers?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAP...27893590&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466#ht_520wt_1395

 

[Lazarous]

that is what i was referring to, i would guess they are the people selling on ebay and not a distributor.

Obviously, I'm just trying to get across that I think any legitimate business owner would be annoyed to find some a$$ illegally selling your product and for the most part selling a product that would be considered inferior

 

[dbennett78]

 

[TimpanogosSlim]

Obviously, I'm just trying to get across that I think any legitimate business owner would be annoyed to find some a$$ illegally selling your product and for the most part selling a product that would be considered inferior

Annoyed, but without genuine legal recourse.

 

[rico567]

For those of you that may have missed it, but many breweries are working towards getting EBay to stop the resale of "hard to get beers":

http://beerpulse.com/2012/07/hill-farmstead-brewery-tackles-reselling-of-its-beers-on-ebay/


*This is not intended to be a debate! It is intended for knowledge only!*

This line has to rank as one of the most disingenuous I've read, and not just on HBT......

(Oh, and I don't really care if they're selling beer or plutonium on eBay.)

 

[motobrewer]

it's because he started a previous thread on the topic, it got political, moved to debate section, and since he's a non-paying member he couldn't view his own thread.