Beer myth experiment

[nukebrewer]

For my next brew I would like to divide it up into 2 or more fermenters and test a beer myth by changing the conditions under which each portion of beer ferments. The problem is that I am having trouble finding a myth that needs testing. Is there anything anyone here wants tested?

-AJ

 

[alcibiades]

there a lot of (potential) myths involving yeast preparation:

1) it is necessary to re-hydrate dry yeast
2) high krausen starter is the best
3) pitching on a prior yeast cake is "good"
4) aeration stone is the best (you could try shaking one fermenter and aerating another)

 

[kypher]

I'd like to know...but am too cowardly to try... whether or not pitching your yeast hot but then cooling it into the right zone really messes up your taste too much. It'd be interesting to split up a batch and pitch the same amount of the same strand but start one at like 90F and the other at 65F

 

[Fingers]

Under pitch one and pitch the other correctly. See if there is a flavor difference at the end.

 

[jeffmeh]

Under pitch one and pitch the other correctly. See if there is a flavor difference at the end.

Great idea! Liquid yeast with proper starter on one, same liquid yeast with no starter on the other.

 

[smizak]

I'm torn between an aeration experiment or an under-pitching one.

 

[david_42]

I can't think of any myth that hasn't been tested repeatedly. You might pick a specific yeast and ferment at the top and bottom of the temperature range, just for the comparison.

 

[motobrewer]

what david said, or pitching rate. pitch as much as you can possibly start in one, then pitch maybe 1/2 a smack pack or vial in the other.

 

[brewmonk]

"The problem is that I am having trouble finding a myth that needs testing. Is there anything anyone here wants tested?"

Beer is good.

 

[Coastarine]

You can do this yeast pitching rate experiment if you want to, or you can pick up the latest BYO, where several brewers did several test batches ranging from 1/4 the recommended rate to 4x the recommended rate and compiled their results.

 

[Bobby_M]

Yup, and the results were inconclusive on that one.

I've done some oxygen/aeration experiments before but I limited myself to dry yeasts which I later concluded was stupid. Dry yeast is apparently freeze dried in a state of readiness, which I THINK means adequate glycogen stores for the upcoming ferment. Whatever you do, try to isolate the samples to a single variable.

 

[iamfoamy]

I recently listened to the August 7 2008 podcast on basic brewing radio, and they had a guy who tested three aeration methods (shaking, pumping air, pumping air with aeration stone). Shaking the carboy for 5 minutes was the most effective. The website also has a paper that he prepared.

 

[user 29674]

You can do this yeast pitching rate experiment if you want to, or you can pick up the latest BYO, where several brewers did several test batches ranging from 1/4 the recommended rate to 4x the recommended rate and compiled their results.

From my memory, that only tested how fast the fermentation kicked off and how long it took to reach FG. The posted idea was to see if there was a taste difference in the end product.

 

[smizak]

I recently listened to the August 7 2008 podcast on basic brewing radio, and they had a guy who tested three aeration methods (shaking, pumping air, pumping air with aeration stone). Shaking the carboy for 5 minutes was the most effective. The website also has a paper that he prepared.

There were a lot of inconsistencies with that experiment. I aerate with a scintered stone, and when I watch it the column of bubbles creates some pretty good stirring and currents that fly around in the carboy. I'll see pieces of break material/hops circling up and around in the wort. I just find it really hard to believe that I'm not getting pretty good aeration with that kind of air being pumped around and with that kind of circulation.

 

[nukebrewer]

All right, I think I am going to do the pitch rate experiment. I'll divide the batch up into 3 fermenters and pitch as follows:

1st fermenter - Quarter vial
2nd fermenter - Half vial
3rd fermenter - Starter built up a few times from the remaining yeast

I'll post my results in a new thread when I finish the experiment. Thanks for all the suggestions.

-AJ

 

[motobrewer]

just my opinion, but i think quarter vial and half vial are a bit close.

i'd maybe do half - full? mrmalty recommends 1.8 vials for a 1.048 wort. So, to me, this is what you're doing:

1. (.25/1.8) = 14% recommended rate
2. (0.5/1.8) = 28% recommended rate
3. 100% recommended rate

doing half - full would be 28% / 55% / 100%, which i think is a nicer spread.

again, my opinion

 

[Mongo64]

What about the notion that adding a drop or two of olive oil can be a substitution for aeration? That one always sounded fishy to me.

 

[Homercidal]

As far as aeration, there is only so much O2 that can dissolve into your wort. Once you reach that number it's done. I've seen a couple of experiments that show that shaking is at least as effective as using an O2 stone, but there is always something cited to disprove the experiment. It would be nice to have a few people try using the same amount of the same yeast in the the same wort and see what happens.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

As far as aeration, there is only so much O2 that can dissolve into your wort. Once you reach that number it's done. I've seen a couple of experiments that show that shaking is at least as effective as using an O2 stone, but there is always something cited to disprove the experiment. It would be nice to have a few people try using the same amount of the same yeast in the the same wort and see what happens.

I think it's important to make the distinction between using a stone with air or using a stone with pure O2. Using a stone with O2 is way more effective than either shaking or using a stone with air. It's been shown to my satisfaction that shaking the carboy is just as effective as using a stone with just air. Hell, I can't even get the wort into my carboy without aerating the hell out of it.

Just think for a moment if you had gone to the trouble of sanitizing a stone and blowing air through it into your wort...for years. All the while telling others that the reason you go to all that trouble is to get more O2 in your wort. Now somebody comes along and says that shaking a carboy for a few minutes works just as well. I'd be pissed/embarrassed too.

 

[IrregularPulse]

Ferment half in one of those grocery store water bottles and the other half in bucket or better bottle. See if they really are problematic with oxygen permeability.

 

[johnnyc]

I'd like to see how long oxidation takes to appear. In one rack to secondary/bottling bucket, in the other just pour and splash. From what I understand the "cardboard" flavor doesn't appear immediately, just after the beer ages.

 

[RichBenn]

If you haven't done the experiment yet, here is a good one:

What is the effect on flavor for a primary only, 3 week ferment vs. a two week secondary after a 1 week primary?

If it's a heavier beer, like an IPA or more, make that 4 weeks total.

There is an unhealthy argument going on right now in another thread about this topic. But has anyone ever done a side by side taste test with controlled conditions? I'd taste at different times post fermentation, to see if any problems happen with aging.

The old myth is that one needs to get beer off of the yeast and into secondary quickly, or autolysis happens. Many don't believe this now.

 

[nukebrewer]

BYO actually had a bunch of their readers do this experiment a while back where they left their beer on the yeast for a month or more. Apparently leaving the beer on the yeast that long doesn't affect it much, if at all. But thanks for the suggestion.

-AJ

 

[bwomp313]

You could always do the old liquid vs. dry. Put Wyeast 1056 vs. Safale US-05 or something along those lines.

 

[RichBenn]

BYO actually had a bunch of their readers do this experiment a while back where they left their beer on the yeast for a month or more. Apparently leaving the beer on the yeast that long doesn't affect it much, if at all. But thanks for the suggestion.

-AJ

Yes, but AFAIK, it was against 1 week. The argument is between 2 stage vs. 1 stage.

Edit - Never mind. I just read the BYO article - looks like they did try the combination I suggested.

 

[remilard]

BYO actually had a bunch of their readers do this experiment a while back where they left their beer on the yeast for a month or more. Apparently leaving the beer on the yeast that long doesn't affect it much, if at all. But thanks for the suggestion.

-AJ

That experiment was an absolute clusterfark.

In any case, I think the key to a good experiment is blind tasting where the tasters do not know the nature of the experiment, rejection of results that are not statistically significant and then discipline to not draw conclusions from them.

Alternately comparing numerical parameters, but most home brewers lack the ability to measure anything other than apparent extract and maybe color using crude methods.

 

[RichBenn]

That experiment was an absolute clusterfark.

In any case, I think the key to a good experiment is blind tasting where the tasters do not know the nature of the experiment, rejection of results that are not statistically significant and then discipline to not draw conclusions from them.

Not to mention the poor reporting of the "experiment" done in the article. What's really sick, is they had enough experimenters to get some good data, if they had taken the time to give adequate guidelines. Instead they got no better than the typical anecdotal evidence you see here every day.

 

[mkling]

"The problem is that I am having trouble finding a myth that needs testing. Is there anything anyone here wants tested?"

Beer is good.

This is fact, not myth!

 

[wilserbrewer]

How bout this, rack off the first half of the wort so it is nice and clean and ferment, then ferment the second half the same but with all the trub and kettle hops left in the wort.

 

[hamiltont]

I always wondered how the same wort/beer would taste if half were fermented as an Ale at an Ale temp (65F) and half was fermented as a Lager at Lager temp (50F). There has to be a difference, I just wonder how different...