Beer line tests & solution to the "plastic" taste

[hukdizzle]

i am intrigued to do a test of bevlex 200 vs the tygon b-44-3 which they claim is "taste free and odor free". The tygon is just a PVC tubing so it would be just as flexible but if it has better taste protection properties I am all for it.

 

[RichBenn]

i am intrigued to do a test of bevlex 200 vs the tygon b-44-3 which they claim is "taste free and odor free". The tygon is just a PVC tubing so it would be just as flexible but if it has better taste protection properties I am all for it.

The b-44-3Edit - it's B-44-4X is a "food and dairy" version of the tygon. It's an upgrade from their regular Tygon beverage tubing. The idea is you can run milk through it, then change to something else. It's so smooth it doesn't harbor bacteria and doesn't deteriorate like other PVC from frequent, harsh cleaning and sterilization. You can get data from the Tygon website.

I haven't used it yet, but it will be what I change to, if I detect any problems with my new setup. In other threads, people that tasted problems with normal PVC said the Tygon didn't.

Rich

 

[spotter]

I would really like to stay with a 3/16" solution to keep the hose clutter to a minimum in my keezer but if I have to go with 1/4" it's not that big of a deal I suppose. Did you order your tubing directly from Better Bottle? Do you know if they would sell it in a 50' section?

I ordered 500' of the bev-seal, used what I needed, and am selling cut to length @$.25/ft + $10 shipping (a bit more if you get over 75'). I think I have about 200' left.

PM me if interested.

 

[Ricand]

The b-44-3 is a "food and dairy" version of the tygon. It's an upgrade from their regular Tygon beverage tubing. The idea is you can run milk through it, then change to something else. It's so smooth it doesn't harbor bacteria and doesn't deteriorate like other PVC from frequent, harsh cleaning and sterilization. You can get data from the Tygon website.

I haven't used it yet, but it will be what I change to, if I detect any problems with my new setup. In other threads, people that tasted problems with normal PVC said the Tygon didn't.

Rich

I'm getting ready to order tubing for an 8 faucet tower. Could we get away with the 1/16th wall tubing? It's half the price of the 1/8th wall, but if it won't hold up then I will have paid too little for my tubing.

 

[hukdizzle]

Looks like Tygon rates that tubing at 45psi Max at 73'F so you should be fine unless you're force carbing the beer on it (Even then I wouldn't think anyone would force carb over 40psi). Might not wanna use this stuff on a nitro setup though.

 

[RichBenn]

I'm getting ready to order tubing for an 8 faucet tower. Could we get away with the 1/16th wall tubing? It's half the price of the 1/8th wall, but if it won't hold up then I will have paid too little for my tubing.

Ouch!

BTW, my mistake, the "food and dairy" one has an X on the end of it:
B-44-4X
Their regular Beverage Tubing is:
B-44-3

Looks like they are priced the same at USPlastics.

I think the problem with all PVC based tubing is the 1/16" thickness doesn't hold it's shape as well, and thus could cause foaming. No direct experience, however.

Rich

 

[tincob]

I switched a few weeks ago from PVC tubing to Tygon B-44-4X.

Plastic taste is gone!

I did have to use the plastic inserts in the corny keg to reduce the flow speed but it was totally worth it to get better tasting beer.

I am using three inserts for 30psi sparkling water setup and 1-2 inserts for the other kegs at 10-12psi.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

I ordered 500' of the bev-seal, used what I needed, and am selling cut to length @$.25/ft + $10 shipping (a bit more if you get over 75'). I think I have about 200' left.

PM me if interested.

How many feet of this do you need for a 12psi tap? I would do it if you didn't have to have extremely long lines to counterbalance the pressure.

 

[RichBenn]

I switched a few weeks ago from PVC tubing to Tygon B-44-4X.

Plastic taste is gone!

I did have to use the plastic inserts in the corny keg to reduce the flow speed but it was totally worth it to get better tasting beer.

I am using three inserts for 30psi sparkling water setup and 1-2 inserts for the other kegs at 10-12psi.

Thanks for giving us all the heads up on the Tygon! I have a couple more questions:
1. For your beer lines, what temperature, line length, and height of tap (above keg)? I was thinking of just getting a 10 ft. section and skipping the inserts.
2. Did you get the 3/16"I.D. -5/16"O.D.(1/16" thick) line?

 

[Ricand]

Inserts in the Corny kegs to reduce flow rate? Where does one get them and how are they installed? I was just about to pull the trigger on this Tygon tubing. Is it because it's so smooth on the interior that there is a flow rate/foam issue without the inserts?

 

[tincob]

Thanks for giving us all the heads up on the Tygon! I have a couple more questions:
1. For your beer lines, what temperature, line length, and height of tap (above keg)? I was thinking of just getting a 10 ft. section and skipping the inserts.
2. Did you get the 3/16"I.D. -5/16"O.D.(1/16" thick) line?

I got the 3/16" ID, 5/16" OD line. My keezer is set at 40 deg F with 10' for 12 psi and 20' for 30 psi. I would say the tap is about 1.5' above the keg. The Tygon tubing definitely had higher flow than the regular PVC tubing (which had the thicker wall).

Another good thing about the Tygon tubing is that it coils tighter than the PVC tubing so even if you went with a 12' or a 15' run length, it wouldn't be any messier than a 10' coil.

Inserts in the Corny kegs to reduce flow rate? Where does one get them and how are they installed? I was just about to pull the trigger on this Tygon tubing. Is it because it's so smooth on the interior that there is a flow rate/foam issue without the inserts?

Check this thread for info on the insert and how to install them: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/cure-your-short-hose-troubles-100151/

I believe the lining contributes to the higher flow. The thinner wall may also be a contributer to the foaming. With the inserts, I am very satisfied with the pours.

The higher cost (for the Tygon tubing and inserts) was definitely worth it for me as the plastic taste was definitely a job-stopper if I couldn't get rid of it. I didn't want to throw out a pint of beer every time I pulled a pint. Moreover, the plastic taste was still there just 15-20 minutes later. I know some people do not taste the plastic but I did and this solution worked for me. YMMV.

 

[RichBenn]

Thanks. Sounds like if you have to do 10 ft. AND the inserts, it really is smooth inside!

Nice setup, BTW.

 

[Ricand]

I'm ordering the 3/16" X 5/16" OD Tygon B-44-4X from US Plastics for my keezer. Since taste really isn't an issue with gas, is there a cheaper solution from US Plastics for our gas lines? I'm thinking I'd like to go with 5/16th ID on the gas.

 

[whoneedsabeer]

Thanks guys for all the great info, I'm building a keezer, and this has definitely helped me choose beer lines.

I found this link on eBay if anyone is interested. Linky

Looks like that guy really liked your reviews too, Kal. You should get royalties!

 

[Scut_Monkey]

Thanks guys for all the great info, I'm building a keezer, and this has definitely helped me choose beer lines.

I found this link on eBay if anyone is interested.

Linky

Looks like that guy really liked your reviews too, Kal. You should get royalties!

I wonder if he is a member here or simply was browsing around and stumbled upon this thread through google. Funny none the less and shows how popular HBT is.

 

[earlytimes]

Does no one else still notice a plastic taste with Tygon B-44-4x? Every review on homebrewtalk that I could find said "zero" plastic taste, so I bit the bullet and dropped ~$60 for 60ft. of it, but the plastic taste is still there for me. Granted, it's better, maybe even much better, but I still have to pour out the first few ounces on the first pour of the night if I don't want to drink plastic beer.

I thought maybe I got a defective reel of the stuff, so I contacted Saint Gobain plastics (the manufacturer of tygon tubing) about it and the guy said B-44-4x isn't recommended for beer and could leech off flavors. He recommended Tygon Silver instead. Of course this is much more expensive (~$1.60/ft.) than the already expensive B-44-4x (~$0.90/ft.).

In summary, I'm very disappointed in Tygon B-44-4x and am still looking for a good solution to replace my beer lines.

 

[RichBenn]

For all you that "taste" the beer line, what kinds of beer do you taste it with? And this "taste" is compared to what?

I didn't buy the tygon as I don't detect anything in two different "beer lines" I purchased. But I make hoppy beers (40 IBUs or more) and have no "control" to compare against.

 

[kal]

For all you that "taste" the beer line, what kinds of beer do you taste it with? And this "taste" is compared to what?

I didn't buy the tygon as I don't detect anything in two different "beer lines" I purchased. But I make hoppy beers (40 IBUs or more) and have no "control" to compare against.

To quote my original post:

Happens with light lagers to heavy IPA's. It's a rubber boot type taste.

I tested multiple types of vinyl hose and poly tubing. Testing was done by leaving water in each hose/tubing (not connected to anything) for 24-48 hours. The water was then tasted and compared to just regular tap water.

Kal

 

[RichBenn]

To quote my original post:

Happens with light lagers to heavy IPA's. It's a rubber boot type taste.

I tested multiple types of vinyl hose and poly tubing. Testing was done by leaving water in each hose/tubing (not connected to anything) for 24-48 hours. The water was then tasted and compared to just regular tap water.

Kal

Well, I'm not getting it with two different beer lines(NSF rated) and beer, not water. I don't think either line is the same as the ones you have in your test, however, although they are clearly PVC. So it could be the lines, it could be different taste buds, or it could be something else....

 

[kal]

Well, I'm not getting it with two different beer lines(NSF rated) and beer, not water. I don't think either line is the same as the ones you have in your test, however, although they are clearly PVC. So it could be the lines, it could be different taste buds, or it could be something else....

If you don't notice any plastic off-flavours then your job is done! Go have a brew!

Kal

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

What about silicone tubing, has anyone tried sanitary silicone tubing for beer lines?

 

[kal]

What about silicone tubing, has anyone tried sanitary silicone tubing for beer lines?

Too soft. They can't take pressure at all.

Kal

 

[jaba]

Here's a great deal on Tygon B-44-4X tubing. A 50ft roll for $27 shipped, 54 cents a foot, less than half of what usplastic.com charges shipped. Just bought a roll, 8 left.

http://cgi.ebay.com/TYGON-B-44-4X-AAA00012-3-16-ID-5-16-OD-Tubing-50-/260597230228

 

[Ricand]

Good find on the Tygon tubing, plus it would be great to buy from someone who doesn't put religious tracts in the delivery box. Keep in mind this stuff is really slick on the inside and the resistance is 1/2 that of regular tubing. I'm finding I need about 10 ft to properly balance 12 psi to the faucet. Be sure to buy smaller clamps too, since the walls are only 1/16th your standard Oeticker clamps won't work.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

Good find on the Tygon tubing, plus it would be great to buy from someone who doesn't put religious tracts in the delivery box. Keep in mind this stuff is really slick on the inside and the resistance is 1/2 that of regular tubing. I'm finding I need about 10 ft to properly balance 12 psi to the faucet. Be sure to buy smaller clamps too, since the walls are only 1/16th your standard Oeticker clamps won't work.

Is that 10 feet plus flow restrictors like the McMaster Carr epoxy mixers? At 10' 12psi is it well balanced? Thought I might finally pull the trigger on some new hose as I'm tired of the wasting the first 4oz of my beer.

I'm thinking I might just take the guess work out and buy 100' for 6-8 taps which gives me 12.5-16 feet per line. I guess this is how lack of experience costs money.

 

[jaba]

Is that 10 feet plus flow restrictors like the McMaster Carr epoxy mixers? At 10' 12psi is it well balanced? Thought I might finally pull the trigger on some new hose as I'm tired of the wasting the first 4oz of my beer.

I'm thinking I might just take the guess work out and buy 100' for 6-8 taps which gives me 12.5-16 feet per line. I guess this is how lack of experience costs money.

I use 10 feet without any epoxy mixers etc. Haven't had any foam issues thus far.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

I use 10 feet without any epoxy mixers etc. Haven't had any foam issues thus far.

What do you typically have the pressure set at? Thanks for posting the ebay link.

 

[jaba]

What do you typically have the pressure set at? Thanks for posting the ebay link.

Usually around 12psi or so, sometimes a bit higher.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

Usually around 12psi or so, sometimes a bit higher.

Good to know. I'm thinking of using 50' for 4 taps (12.5' per line). The problem is I sometimes carb higher than 12psi for Belgians and cider. Perhaps I would need some epoxy mixers to go with the line or save some of my standard 3/16" line for high carbed beers.

 

[Ricand]

Yes, 10' is good for 12 psi. According to the balancing calculations this would give you -6 PSI, but it doesn't suck back in hehe.