Beer line tests & solution to the "plastic" taste

[JesseRC]

I'm using Watts vinyl tubing (3/16" ID) sold in 20' rolls at my Home Depot for about 3 bucks a roll. The only issue I have is that it is not as flexible as some of the other tubing out there, but no plastic taste that I've noticed.

I checked out that line and it says its not to be used on Ice makers and its not to be used where constant pressure will be applied. I just ordered some bevlex from Kegconnection

 

[McKBrew]

I checked out that line and it says its not to be used on Ice makers and its not to be used where constant pressure will be applied. I just ordered some bevlex from Kegconnection

Cool. I didn't see pressure warnings on the stuff I bought, but maybe I should keep an eye on it.

 

[McKBrew]

I checked out that line and it says its not to be used on Ice makers and its not to be used where constant pressure will be applied. I just ordered some bevlex from Kegconnection

Can you give me a link to that tubing, couldn't find it on kegconnection?

 

[Diablotastic]

I think they only sell the bevflex stuff...my order is on the way.

When I spoke with Todd this is the same stuff he uses in his own home system

 

[JesseRC]

yes, that's all they sell. I called Ben on Friday and asked him if he still sold Bevlex , he said that's all they sell. I few months ago my gas line was not Bevlex, he said they sold some other brand for a month but went back to Bevlex. The other brand from my online purchase (which taste like liquid plastic on tap), they say is from Sapo Plastics. I couldnt find anything about it.

 

[McKBrew]

Is that the stuff they are selling for .49 a foot?

 

[JesseRC]

yes, in the picture you can see it says bevlex and I confirmed on Friday.

 

[McKBrew]

yes, in the picture you can see it says bevlex and I confirmed on Friday.

Thanks. ,,,,,,,

 

[kal]

FYI. Bevlex hose from kegconnection is what I used in my original tests (see the first post of this thread, vinyl hose #6).

It had too much taint for me.

Kal

 

[JesseRC]

FYI. Bevlex hose from kegconnection is what I used in my original tests (see the first post of this thread, vinyl hose #6).

It had too much taint for me.

Kal

Yeah i read your post, but honestly I can't taste it. I have 2 lines with Bevlex and 2 with this sapo line. I already cleaned the Sapo lines with BLC and nothing. I tried my best to drink it up , but honestly it is just unbearable. Its in the nose and taste. Thanks for you test though. Oh and can I really get the 3/16 poly on the 1/4" barb? It seems like it'd be a bitch!

 

[McKBrew]

You can get 3/16" tubing on a 1/4" barb with a bit of work (soak it in hot water and it's a lot easier). Getting it off is a PITA, although maybe a hair dryer would warm it up enough to pull it off.

 

[Diablotastic]

FYI. Bevlex hose from kegconnection is what I used in my original tests (see the first post of this thread, vinyl hose #6).

It had too much taint for me.

Kal

yeah i noticed that you did a taste comparison....I'm going to give it a shot and see if I can pick it up

If it's full of "TAINT" then I'm gonna try to go back to the PET 1/4" stuff I got but add some resistance to my liquid dip tube

 

[McKBrew]

Since I'm getting ready to place a large order from ChiCompany, I think I might give this stuff a shot. Hose & Tubing : CHI Company ball lock kegs for sale, Home brewing and vending, beer kegs, Pepsi vending machines, flavor strips and vending labels

 

[JesseRC]

By chance , did any of you clean your lines with BLC prior to testing? The vendor said I needed to do so, I did , but still have the taste.

 

[ftlstrings]

Nice bit of home-brew-ed research going on here! Thanks for the well presented info.

 

[noisy123]

I too am looking at beer lines and have a couple of questions. First I would like to know if anyone has found a US distributor of Kai's recommended lines. Also, I would like to know if anyone has found a 3/16" solution to this problem. I have posted a page from the McMaster-Carr catalog for FEP-lined tubing. They claim:
Material Type

Features
PVC: Flexible, economical, and versatile.
PVC (FEP-Lined): Inert FEP lining provides higher chemical resistance while maintaining clarity and flexibility. Won't impart odors or taste, or taint food or beverage.

The catalog page:

I have read elsewhere on this board that the OD should be 7/16" though I do not understand why (besides structural considerations). So I guess none of the 5/16" OD tubing will work.


Not to get too off topic, but if we mean by resistance: a boundary interaction with the fluid and the walls moderated by viscosity, then I don't see what the outer diameter has to do with it. - edit -> The hose expands with pressure.
[end of off topic]

Item:
Chemical Resistant PVC: 5231K962 at 0.66/ft
seems like it might work but man that stuff is pricey. There is Tygon that also seems like the stuff but its really pricey.

 

[conpewter]

BetterBottle.com sold me whatever length of 1/4" ID Bev-Seal tubing for 45 cents a foot. Not a bad price really. If 1/4" ID is too big for you just buy some of the plastic inserts from McMaster to put in your dip tubes to balance the lines.

 

[kal]

You can also do what I did: Call up the manufacturer and work backwards - Ask who distributes in the US and then call them up and ask who sells...

Good luck!

Kal

 

[conpewter]

Oh you don't know how many companies I went through.... I have at least 5 I called that will gladly sell me a 500 ft roll.... but nothing less

 

[kal]

Yup. I had the same issue. 500' would last me longer than I'd ever care to imagine.

Another option is to call up some of the local places that do beer installation setups. They'll often give you scraps for free. You don't necessarily need the exact brand I mention: As long as it's poly tubing with some sort of glass-like lining meant for beverage you're all set.

Kal

 

[conpewter]

Yup. I had the same issue. 500' would last me longer than I'd ever care to imagine.

Another option is to call up some of the local places that do beer installation setups. They'll often give you scraps for free. You don't necessarily need the exact brand I mention: As long as it's poly tubing with some sort of glass-like lining meant for beverage you're all set.

Kal

Very good point. I did actually see 18' of bundled tubing on sale on ebay for like 40 bucks, unfortunately it was 9 3/8" lines, no 1/4" lines. I'll keep you all up to date on how my tubing works out. I'm doing about 13-15' runs up to my kitchen to have taps up there. I think I was getting oxidation using 10' of LLDPE tubing, PET is a much better barrier.

 

[jwright]

Bump................

I was hoping to hear where people ended up with thier tubing solutions?
Conpewter, Diablotastic, noisy123?
Has anyone had luck with the tygon - if so were you using the chem resistant or the Ultra? Any good US sources for the Bev-seal?

I also wanted to ask opinions about gas lines. I am using the standard red pvc lines. I actually pbw and star san'd them initially. I have a new 2 keg set up with about 1 keg thru each side and don't remember checking them for any odor/taste. I just bought some additional red line and WOW - the stuff reeks - taking a suck off the end of that is nasty - pure rubber. I can't believe that something that strong would not impart some of that flavor to the beer. I'll check the new line after an overnight soak, but I am now thinking of also changing out my gas lines. I know this sounds like overkill - way overboard, but I need to get rid of the rubber taste. Maybe the bevlex would be OK for gas?

thanks
jason

 

[kal]

I have the red rubber gas lines too (BevLex 204 by Kuriyama) and have always used them. Your beer doesn't pass through them so no issues. The gas doesn't pick up any flavour on the way through.

As the original author of this thread, believe me, if there was any off-taste due to the gas lines I would have replaced them a long time ago too...

Kal

 

[jwright]

Kal, I'm still curious.
First I'm not sure if my new gas line is bevlex. It is just stamped with keg connection PVC, so I may have more of a problem.
So today, even after an overnight soak in pbw then starsan, there is still a pronounced rubber "taste" if I breathe in through this tube. My thinking is if air passing through this tube can pick up a noticable flavor, why wouldn't the CO2 also be able to do this. If the Co2 is able to pick up the 'off flavor' and is then diffused and retained within a liquid (beer), wouldn't the molecules (?pvc off-gassing?) responsible for the "taste" also be suspended within the beer and able to impart some flavor? (i.e. would farting in the bathtub make the bathwater taste bad?)
I know this is a complex issue. It has been a while since I had to look at gas difusion physics/chemisty. I also realize that a lot goes into the perception of taste and I really may be working a problem that doesn't exist. I only started thinking about it again since this piece of hose really had quite a noticable odor.

I am still looking to hear what others ended up with for thier beverage lines as I am sure this is an actual problem for some.
Thanks all (especially kal),
Jason

 

[kal]

Kal, I'm still curious.
First I'm not sure if my new gas line is bevlex. It is just stamped with keg connection PVC, so I may have more of a problem.
So today, even after an overnight soak in pbw then starsan, there is still a pronounced rubber "taste" if I breathe in through this tube. My thinking is if air passing through this tube can pick up a noticable flavor, why wouldn't the CO2 also be able to do this.

That's a good question! All I can say is that I don't notice any plastic off-flavours and I'm really fussy about it (most people and other brewers think I'm absolutely nuts for the amount of work I put into this).

Let me know what you find out though - if you do end up doing tests with different gas lines make sure to post your findings back here. Gas line's cheap. I'll replace mine if it makes a difference.

Kal

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

Kal, I want to thank for this thread, I am very happy with my current keggerator and a lot of it has to do with this thread convincing me not go cheap on the beer line.
I got a high quality line and I now enjoy being able to pour a half pint from an unused line and drink it with no off taste that I can notice. Was it worth spending a few (or more) pennies per foot. YES.
I have enough replacement lines to last me a many years and I clean the lines out every three months or so, and still there is no problems at all.

 

[Hotspur]

I bought "Tygon® Food, Milk, & Dairy Tubing B-44-4X" from McMaster-Carr and I've been very happy with it. I don't perceive off tastes, even when drawing 2-4oz of a pale ale. The one thing I noticed with this is that I think there is substantially less ID resistance. I have 10' per tap, and 12psi was pretty strong, and seems to overproduce the head a bit. US Plastics sells it at this link. Though, they appear to be out of stock at the moment.

It also remains very supple, even when the kegerator is set to 45*. I just do a quick rinse with PBW, Water, then StarSan before hooking them up. I don't believe I bought anything super fancy for gas line, just decent quality line from MMC.

 

[kal]

Glad you're happy guys!

Some comments:

- The barrier tubing has a glass-like lining in it so you'll find that you probably don't have to clean the lines as often. The stuff (beerstone) doesn't really accumulate. In fact, I don't have any after 2 years! I flush the lines once a year with hot oxyclean but it doesn't even seem to be needed.

- Line resistance is also reduced. That glass-like lining lets you set your regulator at a much lower setting and still get a good pour rate. An extra bonus for me when it comes to balancing the lines as I tend to like my beers on the lower end of carbination so I don't need to use much line.

Kal

 

[Hotspur]

I haven't had mine hooked up long enough to tell anything about beerstone yet, but I'm starting to suspect that the Tygon is more or less a different brand with the same properties as Bevlex.

I don't recall if I posted this or not, but I chatted with a guy on a different forum (Warcraft based), and he works at a plant for "the biggest brewing company". He said they're permitted to use Stainless Steel, or that model of Tygon. I may not like their product, but given the consistency they shoot for, and the alternative product, the Tygon seemed like a good choice.

 

[jwright]

Thanks to everyone who has chimed in.
Kauai - What line are you using that is working out so well?
Jason