Beer line tests & solution to the "plastic" taste

[McKBrew]

Interesting, maybe I'll have to try that. I always pour out 1-2 oz every time I pull the tap, so that might be why I don't see much of an issue.

Let it sit unpoured for more than an hour for a change!

No, seriously, after letting it sit overnight, pour only a 2oz taster, then pour off another few ounces into a pint glass, then pour another 2oz taster. Do an A/B blind taste test. The last 2oz pour will taste much better than the first.

 

[IrregularPulse]

If not because of the off flavor, why do you pour off the first 1-2 ounces? Temp? Jus curious. Putting final (for now) touches on keezer and putting a keg of apfelwein in tomorrow for New Years. I've drank two kegs (mild and Scottish 60) from it but with just a collar and picnick tap. NowI have the tap box all set I'll post pics after the holidays in the kegerator forum. Been waiting a long time to do that!!

 

[Spine]

Hmm. Glad I came across this thread, as I recently (2-3 weeks ago) got a shipment of some 3/16" tubing from morebeer and replaced the line on two of my three taps and I can definately taste a plastic flavour in the first few ounces. Even worse is that on my lightly hopped lager the chemical smell is really overpowering. It has no name or label on it and I am now wondering if they really got a "bad batch" or if all of the stuff is bad. Does anyone else use the morebeer 3/16 line and have taste/smell issues?

The unchanged tap has the arrow brand of tubing and I can not notice any off flavours from it and I have even tried swapping the kegs around. I can without a doubt say that the morebeer tubing I just bought is giving severe off flavours and smells to my beer compared to my existing line (arrow brand)

 

[IrregularPulse]

Well I am getting off flavors from my keg of apfelwein if I don't pour off the first few ounces. I never noticed it in the 2 kegs of beer I went through before adding the tap box (picnick taps that stayed inside the fridge) I'm wondering if it is just from the line heating up inside the box. I'm on my way out to the garage to start messing with a PC fan I found laying around. Going to push air from the bottom of the fridge up to the box around the lines. Hopefully this fixes everything. Once cold, the apfelwein tastes fine.

 

[Spine]

Update: I e-mailed morebeer a couple nights ago and let them know I was getting some severe chemical smells and tastes from my beer line that I just got from them and this is what they had to say "I am very sorry for the inconvenience. We did get a recent run of tubing that was defective. We have been assured by the supplier that the tubing is not dangerous, it's just causing whatever goes through it to taste bad. " I am currently in the process of tracking down a supplier for the line I am using on the rest of my taps. It's made by ARROW hose and its TYPE 14 PVC with NSF-51 stamped right on it. The morebeer stuff doesn't have anything written on the tubing. I will report back with my findings.

 

[kal]

Update: I e-mailed morebeer a couple nights ago and let them know I was getting some severe chemical smells and tastes from my beer line that I just got from them and this is what they had to say "I am very sorry for the inconvenience. We did get a recent run of tubing that was defective. We have been assured by the supplier that the tubing is not dangerous, it's just causing whatever goes through it to taste bad. "

I started this thread so see my first post for my Arrow vs B3 no-marking tubing findings.

They email they sent you is word for word the same email they sent me when I complained about their tubing a year and a half ago. Right down to the "we have been assured by the supplier that the tubing is not dangerous".

I'm tempted to call bull-sh** on this.

I'm starting to think that they just have some tubing they buy really cheap and simply refund those who complain (maybe 10%?).

Weird since B3 is a good known reputable company but this tubing issue is odd.

Kal

 

[Spine]

Just heard back from morebeer - They are sending me some replacement beer line. It is apparently from a different batch but I have my doubts.

 

[kal]

Yes, please let us know how it works out. I just had them refund me for my line and bought stuff elsewhere.

If you want the Arrow stuff since you're in Ontario call up Simgo.com. You have to call to order (can't order online but you can look up stuff online). Horrible website so you need to know what you want. Their prices are incredibly low. If you're in Canada always look there first and nobody will beat their prices.

Kal

 

[Spine]

Hi Kal,

Too bad I didn't read your message before I went shopping today.. Just bought 40' of the Arrow 14 3/16" line for about $0.49 / foot at brewtime in hamilton. Oh well, at least I wont have stuff that smells and tastes like the morebeer stuff, and for me that is worth the extra price. Also I didn't have to pay shipping for the brewtime stuff as well.

 

[Diablotastic]

So I got in the PET barrier Bev-Seal tubing 1/4" Id stuff in from Better Bottle and I've kegged my 1st batch.

I'm not picking up any plastic taint whatsoever

Although I'm having to really fiddle with the system to get it to balance. Being my 1st time I'm sure there's some learning curves but I'm currently @ 12-14 PSI (have played with it a bit) with 15+ feet of tubing and I'm getting a pretty foamy result with what I thought was a minimal amount of carbination...little over a week in the fridge.

I'm assuming it's my line length becasue since the Foam is present but the desired amounts of bubbles are not.

I wonder if it's partly in fact that i have coiled my serving lin up fairly compact like with bread ties and just reach in and pull oft he picnic tap? This stuff is pretty stiff so it seems like the best way to control the serpent

 

[kal]

Doesn't matter how you coil it up. It won't do anything. I do the same thing. I use the same stuff as you (close to the same lengths) and I think your PSI is too high. Turn it down to 5-8 PSI and leave it for a good 2-3 weeks in the fridge. Then try again. 1 week isn't enough to carb up the beer unless you shake it once and a while.

I leave my PSI at around 5 and simply wait 2-3 weeks for the beer to carb up to that amount. This also helps with initial aging and settling. It's a nice, perfectly carb'ed pub style beer like you typically get on tap. Not quite as fizzy as bottled stuff but then I find most bottled stuff too fizzy but that's just me.

You'll ALWAYS get a pour no matter how low the PSI is, it'll just be slower at lower PSI's. So set your PSI to the carb level you want and then play with the length of hose to compensate. This PET-lined bev seal stuff is super slippery inside so there's very little resistance, which in turn means you'd probably need 50-70' of it to get a good (slower) pour rate at 12-14 PSI.

Since you probably don't want to start messing around with different lengths, do it the opposite way: Turn it down to 5-8 PSI now (you'll have to pop your regulator safety valve a few times as you do this to get it to register correctly at the lower pressure), then wait a few hours and then see if you like the pour rate. You should notice no more foam. If that works ok, wait a couple of weeks to let the beer carb up see if you also like the carb level. If you find it's too flat your only option is to turn up the PSI and also increase the line length if the pour starts to get too fast.

Kal

 

[Diablotastic]

Thanks for the tips.....I'll give that a shot

 

[Diablotastic]

I wonder if I could go with more of a force carb method as apposed to a set it and forget it method.

Maybe I could jack up the PSI and shake around a bit and then eventually purge the excess pressure and turn it down to a better serving pressure if I'm desiring a little more carb in the beer.

Rather not have to scarp the lines and go with longer ones if I don't have to

 

[Coastarine]

I just hooked up 3/16 vinyl tubing from NB and I'm getting no plastic taste at all. It is Perlick tubing.

 

[kal]

I just hooked up 3/16 vinyl tubing from NB and I'm getting no plastic taste at all. It is Perlick tubing.

How long are you letting the beer sit in the tubing before sampling the first 1-2 oz?

Kal

 

[Coastarine]

I'm not just pulling an ounce or two, I'm pouring a 12oz beer from 6' lines after about 24 hours.

 

[kal]

To see if there's any taint, wait overnight and try just pulling 2 oz and taste it. On my tests I found that pulling a full 12 oz diluted the plastic taste quite a bit as you're diluting the beer that was sitting in the line (2 oz or so) with 10 oz of beer that's coming straight from the keg.

Lesson learned: If you always pull a full 12 oz then don't worry about it.

Kal

 

[Spine]

To see if there's any taint, wait overnight and try just pulling 2 oz and taste it. On my tests I found that pulling a full 12 oz diluted the plastic taste quite a bit as you're diluting the beer that was sitting in the line (2 oz or so) with 10 oz of beer that's coming straight from the keg.

Lesson learned: If you always pull a full 12 oz then don't worry about it.

Kal

Just an update - got the "replacement" tubing from morebeer and it had the exact same problems as the first one. Put in my arrow PVC line and the taint was greatly reduced, although still present in the first 1-2oz like you mention. Now I know what the smell is like (from the morebeer stuff) it seems I have heightened smell towards this. At least with the arrow stuff it doesn't make you want to barf upon smelling it like the morebeer stuff.

Thanks for the experiments you did on the subject, hopefully this will alert people to the issue.

Mike

 

[kal]

Just an update - got the "replacement" tubing from morebeer and it had the exact same problems as the first one. Put in my arrow PVC line and the taint was greatly reduced, although still present in the first 1-2oz like you mention. Now I know what the smell is like (from the morebeer stuff) it seems I have heightened smell towards this. At least with the arrow stuff it doesn't make you want to barf upon smelling it like the morebeer stuff.

Call them and ask for a refund on the item plus shipping costs, and tell them to stop lying.

Kal

 

[malnutriton]

Hey Diablotastic,

I have had a similar issue in my new build and have found that if you do "hypercarb" ie shake under high pressure and then back the psi down to 12-14 for 2 days the carbinaton wil be just fine. The trick to a good pour is to turn the psi down to ~5 and vent the keg before pouring. Just remember to turn it back up when done for the night or youll have some undercarbed beer.

 

[Diablotastic]

Yeah I think the PET lined 1/4" stuff I have is more for longer commercial runs....I'm going to try some 3/16 Bevflex 200 PVC stuff from Keg Connection and see how this works...If I get any taint then I'm going to consider those inserts that were talked about here........https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/cure-your-short-hose-troubles-100151/

Todd from Kegconnection said the bevflex 200 stuff he's getting he hasn't had any issues and also uses this in his home like the kuritek engineer that Kal had spoke with

 

[JesseRC]

OK, I'm not understanding why this is such a big issue, I mean establishments have been serving beer for ages using beer line, and when I bought my first two cheap faucets and line from keg connection , I never thought twice about. I've seen your post, but didnt have anything to comment cuz I havnt experienced it. So last week I upgrade to 4 faucets, I added 2 perlicks (these are awesome , the pour is awesome) with 10 ft of line each. Well i take a sip and blahhhhh. I cant even drink it. It's horrible.... and only on the 2 newly upgraded line. I throw it out and pour another pint. It taste great again. Ok maybe it will go away. Come back a few days later. Try it and blahhh....I pour it out and its fine. Come back 30 minutes later and again its crap. What's up with this.

I mean I know some of us have sensitive taste, but come on.. we talk about beer head to give us those special notes , and all I get is this crappy smell and taste. I only drink a pint a day... I think throwing out the 1st pint sucks. Thats half of my keg down the drain. I know what I am gonna do , order from keg connection. But what about where I bought this recent line from? Shouldnt they be selling the good stuff. I wont' mention their name, I like the place, and moderators always shut down every thread with there name in it, so I just want answers.

Will this taste go away eventually?
I ran 3 gallons of starsan followend by 3 gallons of hot water through it . Did I do something wrong?

 

[JesseRC]

One more note: I let the starsan sit in there for about 10 minutes. Should I have left it in there longer?

 

[McKBrew]

Maybe it's just me, but I've been running cheap home depot beverage line from day one and have not had these plastic issues that seem common. I always pour off an ounce or two if I haven't opened the tap in a few days, but I'm not even sure that is needed with my system.

It sucks that you all are having issues with more expensive line.

 

[JesseRC]

So home depot huh. I guess I've never seen it. What's it called? I guess my issue is , this place I bought it from is reputable, I just can't believe others havn't ranted about it. This thread is only 6 pages long, so I'm wondering if the taste just goes away or what?

 

[McKBrew]

I'm using Watts vinyl tubing (3/16" ID) sold in 20' rolls at my Home Depot for about 3 bucks a roll. The only issue I have is that it is not as flexible as some of the other tubing out there, but no plastic taste that I've noticed.

 

[JesseRC]

THanks McBrew, I'll have to try it for being that cheap.

 

[McKBrew]

THanks McBrew, I'll have to try it for being that cheap.

Worst case, if it doesn't work out for you, you aren't out a bunch of cash.

 

[kal]

OK, I'm not understanding why this is such a big issue, I mean establishments have been serving beer for ages using beer line

It does subside over time (the flavours leech out into the beer) and bars serve beers every few minutes not just once or twice a day like many of our bars.

It`s not uncommon for a bartender to pull a beer from each tap at the start of the day and pour it out either.

Kal

 

[JesseRC]

Yeah, except yesterday I pulled a pint out. THen poured a pint and drank it. Came back to pour a pint 15-20 minutes later and the plastic taste is back. That's pretty quick. The online store I bought it from said I really need to use BLC to clean the line first. Does anyone really do this. I have BLC, but its caustic and I didn't really want to use it unless I had deposit (beerstone).