beer line and keg o right sanitation question.

[Jako]

I just had two batches go bad. I am 100% sold its yeast autolysis. I made a batch in a older bucket so the chance of infection is possible. Then I repitched the yeast in my conical...


Beer started I out good then started to taste mega rubbery and meaty. So nasty. Beer wouldn't hold a head then in 2-3 days later undrinkable. Also never dropped clear or even remotely close

My question is i don't think it's a sanitation issue but I guess it could be. To be safe how could I sanitize my lines and keg o rings.

Its already new stuff and the idea of redoing it again sounds awful.

 

[Jim R]

It would probably help to know exactly what your workflow is - ie. cleaning, sanitizing, fermenting, transferring, etc..

 

[day_trippr]

Actual autolysis doesn't happen in the normal course of home brewing - one would have to essentially forget about a batch for a long time, and I doubt there was nearly enough time for autolysis to even occur in this case.
This sounds more like infection...

Cheers

 

[Jako]

It would probably help to know exactly what your workflow is - ie. cleaning, sanitizing, fermenting, transferring, etc..

For my conical i will pressure transfer a batch right into the keg that was cleaned with PBW then Starsan.

After the fermenter is empty i take it apart and disassemble the ball valves and each piece i rinse with hot water then place it all into a bucket with hot PBW soak for 30min. Rinse with hot water then soak in Starsan and reassemble.

the fermenter is left this way dry and sealed off with a 3 piece blow off until its time to be used. Once i brew again i will add in new Starsan and shake the fermenter a few times to make sure its covered all over. Then i drain out the racking port and trub dump.


This time, i used a bucket.... I used fresh starsan in the bucket gave it a few good shakes and let it sit until it was time to transfer the wort in. the transfer is done by the pump though my stainless counter flow. this is sanitized by running boiling wort though the chiller the last 10 min.

once it was time to transfer out of the bucket i spayed the exterior with starsan and used my sanitized stainless racking cane. the beer was racked directly into a clean sanitized keg.


the beer i made was a English IPA, it was 10G and i spit the batch. the Ale conical batch didn't go bad. the other half that i pitched Cable car into the bucket is the first keg to go bad. i used the yeast cake from that batch and dumped directly into fresh wort after racking the beer over. this second batch also gone bad.

so the only thing that adds us is the yeast at this point. the beer was 1.075 so very high OG with no starter. i never checked the date on the yeast as my LHBS has very fresh yeast especially anything from Imperial. i tend to see dates a few days old to a week or two at most.

well the bucket could have had some type of infection as well and i sent that to the first batch to the second one. i moved and this was the first time using a bucket again. it sat for a while in my cold storage.

Also i ended up getting slightly lazy with my keg taps and would run starsan out of a keg to "clean" the tap i was going batch to batch assuming it was fine.


I hope i covered everything let me know if i missed something that could be of use. its a lot of scattered brain information but that's how i function.

 

[Jako]

Actual autolysis doesn't happen in the normal course of home brewing - one would have to essentially forget about a batch for a long time, and I doubt there was nearly enough time for autolysis to even occur in this case.
This sounds more like infection...

Cheers

i have had infections almost 2 years ago so i have an idea of what it would taste like. but everything i read sounds exactly like this. i could be wrong and normally am. I have never had beer go bad this fast ever. It took days.

What really points me into this direction as well is it was fine the first few days on tap. super cloudy then suddenly super bad. i would think the cold would slow any infection. but i did read that some infections could stress the yeast and cause autolysis.

This is the worst part of brewing. i remember the last time i had 4 batches go bad i was at a point of quit or spend the money to replace a ton of gear. happy i didn't quit but not happy i lost out on 10 gallons of beer. Empty taps and 10 hours of wasted time on my hands if not more.

 

[Age]

Hi I'm writing an article on homebrew to highlight the weird and wonderful terminology used to describe beer. If you have any coloquial expressions it would be great to hear them - 'hoppy blond, dry & bubbly, rubbery & meaty, any more you can throw my way, please do. I'm loving this amazing venacular community. The more coloquial the better. Thanks, Age.

 

[Age]

For my conical i will pressure transfer a batch right into the keg that was cleaned with PBW then Starsan.

After the fermenter is empty i take it apart and disassemble the ball valves and each piece i rinse with hot water then place it all into a bucket with hot PBW soak for 30min. Rinse with hot water then soak in Starsan and reassemble.

the fermenter is left this way dry and sealed off with a 3 piece blow off until its time to be used. Once i brew again i will add in new Starsan and shake the fermenter a few times to make sure its covered all over. Then i drain out the racking port and trub dump.


This time, i used a bucket.... I used fresh starsan in the bucket gave it a few good shakes and let it sit until it was time to transfer the wort in. the transfer is done by the pump though my stainless counter flow. this is sanitized by running boiling wort though the chiller the last 10 min.

once it was time to transfer out of the bucket i spayed the exterior with starsan and used my sanitized stainless racking cane. the beer was racked directly into a clean sanitized keg.


the beer i made was a English IPA, it was 10G and i spit the batch. the Ale conical batch didn't go bad. the other half that i pitched Cable car into the bucket is the first keg to go bad. i used the yeast cake from that batch and dumped directly into fresh wort after racking the beer over. this second batch also gone bad.

so the only thing that adds us is the yeast at this point. the beer was 1.075 so very high OG with no starter. i never checked the date on the yeast as my LHBS has very fresh yeast especially anything from Imperial. i tend to see dates a few days old to a week or two at most.

well the bucket could have had some type of infection as well and i sent that to the first batch to the second one. i moved and this was the first time using a bucket again. it sat for a while in my cold storage.

Also i ended up getting slightly lazy with my keg taps and would run starsan out of a keg to "clean" the tap i was going batch to batch assuming it was fine.


I hope i covered everything let me know if i missed something that could be of use. its a lot of scattered brain information but that's how i function.

 

[Age]

Hi I'm writing an article on homebrew to highlight the weird and wonderful terminology used to describe beer. If you have any coloquial expressions it would be great to hear them - 'hoppy blond, dry & bubbly, rubbery & meaty, any more you can throw my way, please do. I'm loving this amazing venacular community. The more coloquial the better. Thanks, Age.

 

[Jako]

Hi I'm writing an article on homebrew to highlight the weird and wonderful terminology used to describe beer. If you have any coloquial expressions it would be great to hear them - 'hoppy blond, dry & bubbly, rubbery & meaty, any more you can throw my way, please do. I'm loving this amazing venacular community. The more coloquial the better. Thanks, Age.

For me it only gets super strange once someone tries to describe something wrong or a infection. For example goaty or weat gym socks to describe a sour beer. Not what I am into but some find it great

 

[Age]

haha great!

 

[Jim R]

I think that if I had 6 total batches go bad as you mentioned, I would probably bag this hobby. I would sure like to know what is happening. It sounds like you clean and sanitize well.

I would probably start making yeast starters from now on. That is easy to do and can only help.

I would also now clean everything with a diluted bleach solution followed by the PBW / Starsan steps including the fermenter, keg, etc.. I would take the keg apart and clean and scrub it. You can also put everything other than the seals in hot water (190 degrees) to sanitize well. If you have silicone hoses, you can soak them in the hot water also. I would even take apart the black and grey ball locks and clean and sanitize them well. I would probably just replace the seals and maybe even start with new hoses. I wouldn't leave any stone unturned.

 

[Jako]

I think that if I had 6 total batches go bad as you mentioned, I would probably bag this hobby. I would sure like to know what is happening. It sounds like you clean and sanitize well.

I would probably start making yeast starters from now on. That is easy to do and can only help.

I would also now clean everything with a diluted bleach solution followed by the PBW / Starsan steps including the fermenter, keg, etc.. I would take the keg apart and clean and scrub it. You can also put everything other than the seals in hot water (190 degrees) to sanitize well. If you have silicone hoses, you can soak them in the hot water also. I would even take apart the black and grey ball locks and clean and sanitize them well. I would probably just replace the seals and maybe even start with new hoses. I wouldn't leave any stone unturned.

Hah yeah 6 batches is a insane amount of beers to go bad.

Thinking the same thing at this point as well. I would probably cry if I deep clean everything again and had another issue.

What raito of bleach to hot water do you use?

I have a batch in the fermenter now that I use iodine followed by a strong Starsan solution.

 

[Jim R]

I think I have read 1-2 oz of unscented bleach per gallon of water with contact time of 10-20 min with scrubbing i the nooks and crannies (ie. toothbrush, etc.). Then follow with thorough rinsing and then probably PBW in very hot water and Starsan.

 

[Jako]

Do you know anything about using TSP and how it would help or if it would?

 

[Transamguy77]

Infections suck! I’ve been down that road also I ended up dumping close to 10 10 gallon batches. My issue was where I was fermenting not my practice.

It sounds like your issue was in batch number 1 and was than was transferred to batch number 2 so I would look at that first batch. I would not jump to just replacing everything just yet, I would take everything apart and rinse, then strong bleach solution, rinse, then PBW and rinse again. I would boil anything that can be boiled and then starsan before use.

I would then brew something light and quick and see how it goes after that, it is frustrating trying to deal with an infection.

 

[Jako]

Infections suck! I’ve been down that road also I ended up dumping close to 10 10 gallon batches. My issue was where I was fermenting not my practice.

It sounds like your issue was in batch number 1 and was than was transferred to batch number 2 so I would look at that first batch. I would not jump to just replacing everything just yet, I would take everything apart and rinse, then strong bleach solution, rinse, then PBW and rinse again. I would boil anything that can be boiled and then starsan before use.

I would then brew something light and quick and see how it goes after that, it is frustrating trying to deal with an infection.

I might give that a go i have everything in order to do it. If it doesn't work out well I go on vacation soon and would replace it all after.

 

[Jim R]

Maybe your pump is contaminated and the source of infection. I have heard of that before. I remember someone saying once to always first look at anything plastic, rubber or silicone on the cold side as the most likely source.

 

[Jako]

i started to take it all apart. as much as possible. hot nonsented dish soap soak. then diluted bleach for all stainless parts, then PBW soak for all and i will finish with strong starsan soak as well.

also going into a keep clean on my taps

i will tackle pump and brew system tomorrow. going to boil my tubes etc and deep clean.