Beer Judging Rant

[ghpeel]

They should be within 5 points of eachother, but some competitions allow up to 7 points of difference if they simply can't agree.

Now goshdarn it, someone else told me this too. But my English IPA got scores of 41/42/27 recently. I was SUPREMELY pissed because the 41/42 scores came from judges with BJCP numbers and the 27 came from a guy without a number who was listed as a "professional brewer."

I have no idea what the winner's score for that category was. Is it too late for me to protest this huge difference in scores? The contest was done about 4 weeks ago.

 

[mklawz]

This is a timely thread for me, as I just received an annoying scoresheet in the mail. I will preface by saying I enter a good share of local comps, and for the most part I have been impressed by the efforts and comments of the judges.

This one has me annoyed at the lack of effort and the failure of responsibility of his part. Very few comments, and barely legible at that.

Aroma - Slight xxxx xxxx very clean no hop ok.

Appearance - good color and clarity small xxxx

Flavor - Light malt hop level is correct. Im picking up something a little xxxx in the finish

Mouthfeel - Good body carbonation a little on the low side

Overall - A very xxxxx beer

that is all. No other checkmarks in the faults or area for stylistic accuracy, technical merit, intangibles. That is all. I plan on emailing the person and politely telling him that if he wants to be a beer judge he needs to make a better effort and if he has any questions or doesnt understand something, then to ask questions. That is why they put you with a Nationally ranked judge.

 

[Beerrific]

This is a timely thread for me...

You should e-mail the competition organizer too. If they do not know it, most people enter comps. for feedback on their beer, not win awards. Score sheets like that are simple not acceptable.

from http://www.bjcp.org/judgeprocman.php

As a judge, the product of your work is the scoresheet that is returned to the entrant. Entrants trust you to provide legible, accurate, and thorough evaluations of their entries. They have paid entry fees and possibly shipping costs to submit their entries. Keep in mind that your comments will not only affect the entrants’ impressions of you, but also of the competition and the competition organizers. Fill out scoresheets as you would have other judges fill out scoresheets for your own homebrew.

Judges’ comments must include:

* Evaluations of the sensory aspects of the entry and how those aspects relate to the Style Guidelines.
* Comments that are constructive and reflect knowledge of the brewing, fermenting, bottling, and handling processes.
* Information on how to improve the entry as warranted.
* Constructive feedback and encouragement for the entrant in all cases.

Judges’ comments must NOT include:

* Assumptions about the brewing process or ingredients without qualifying statements such as “If you used…” or “Did you…?”
* Derogatory, rude, and/or snide comments.

 

[StunnedMonkey]

This beer is 10.1% and I tried it while reading the score sheets and can't taste or smell any of the things they are saying....

It's always possible that your beer may have gotten swapped with another entry. I don't know how various events handle the bottles but it certainly seems reasonable that occasionally some may get inadvertently mixed up.

A score of 16 suggests serious faults. Hard to imagine your whole club would miss it.

 

[DBbrewing]

It's always possible that your beer may have gotten swapped with another entry. I don't know how various events handle the bottles but it certainly seems reasonable that occasionally some may get inadvertently mixed up.

A score of 16 suggests serious faults. Hard to imagine your whole club would miss it.

That is what I am saying, I don't understand it. I am taking some to the next meeting and see if anyone picks any of the flaws, this time.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I recently entered a local comp and got an e-mail saying (practically begging) they needed judges to complete the first round and they wanted me to come judge. I've never judged in my life and I don't even drink commercial beer...only what I brew. So it def appears that there is a huge shortage of judges. I do intend to become a BJCP cert judge...maybe this thread will light a fire under my ass.

I also think that sometimes the judges don't fully fill out the sheets. If there are obvious flaws, something in that left column should be checked, no?

Earlier this year my lone entry to the NHC averaged a 26 and both suggested slight infection. Not happy (I could taste it about a week after I shipped it).

This recent local comp the lone brew I entered I averaged another 26 but both judges raved about how much they loved the beer and would drink a ton of it, just that it was a little out-of-style. I'm happy with that. But I can see where some might be confused that a crappy beer and an excellent one both scored the same.

 

[Sigafoos]

Now goshdarn it, someone else told me this too. But my English IPA got scores of 41/42/27 recently. I was SUPREMELY pissed because the 41/42 scores came from judges with BJCP numbers and the 27 came from a guy without a number who was listed as a "professional brewer."

I have no idea what the winner's score for that category was. Is it too late for me to protest this huge difference in scores? The contest was done about 4 weeks ago.

Yeah, that's simply not right. Even if it's too late to protest, you need to let them know what happened. I can't believe the other judges didn't catch that, or a steward or someone.

 

[FlyGuy]

As a BJCP judge and a competition organizer, it makes me cringe to hear such horror stories. I only hope that for every horrible scoresheet out there, there are also some really good scoresheets to balance.

The bottom line is that a lousy judge might end up around the judging table no matter how hard a competition organizer plans. If you are displeased with your OVERALL experience, there are only two things that will ever change things (and they both depend on the BREWER, not the BJCP or the competition organizer):

1. Be sure to make a complaint to the competition organizer. The organizer doesn't have time to inspect EVERY scoresheet, so tell them if some judge didn't pull their weight. This is very valuable feedback to an organizer, and helps to improve future competitions. For example, judges that need a little coaching can be paired with a senior judge and mentor. (I also know that based on the last two competitions I organized, a couple of judges simply WON'T be invited back.)

2. There ARE strong competitions out there with first-rate judges. If you know a good competition, let others know (e.g., speak out on these forums). I won't suggest the reverse, which would be to publicly condemn a competition just because you received a bad scoresheet, but I do also know that some competitions develop a bad reputation all on their own. The bottom line is that quality varies, and a little 'consumer choice' would go a lot further to help eliminate poorly run competitions than any BJCP policing ever could.

 

[user 22118]

I just got scored by a BJCP and a Pro Brewer. BJCP gave me a 37 and Pro gave me a 30. I was surprised because the comments were so different. It was a Belgian and the pro said it was carbed very well but that there was astringency from the carbonation. That was in the same section too, not in visual and overall. I was slightly surprised because either there is carbonation or there isn't.

I am taking the notes and going to refigure the recipe. I just wish they were more consistent in their comments.

 

[bierhaus15]

I ranted earlier in the thread, but having just recieved this score sheet in the mail yesterday, I am pretty furious. This was scored by a BJCP certified judge in a pretty big competition. (Knickerbocker Battle of Brews)

Aroma: Nice malty nose

Appearance: Good color

Flavor: Nice malty taste

Mouthfeel: Good body & creaminess

Overall Imp: A little too sweet for style

I would almost expect something like this from a non-BJCP judge, but this is pretty freaking ridiculous. This tells me nothing about the beer that I didn't already know! It seems like a lot of judges think their duties go only so far as to give the beer a score and let the brewer figure out whats wrong. For this comp the score sheets I received were all pretty terrible - ineligible scribbling and two word sentences that tell me nothing about what I could do to improve. That's 18 bucks wasted.

 

[FlyGuy]

...For this comp the score sheets I received were all pretty terrible - ineligible scribbling and two word sentences that tell me nothing about what I could do to improve. That's 18 bucks wasted.

I would contact the competition organizer and ask for your entry fee back. Even if they say no, you will send a strong message to them.

And if you don't get an acceptable response from the competition directory, you are always entitled to file a complaint with the BJCP ([email protected]). They do take such things seriously, especially if you provide them with a copy of the poorly completed scoresheets. At one point, they used to send comments to the judge in question, but I don't know if that is still the current practice.

 

[Glasfeena]

A) Most judges will score an out of style, hoppy beer better than an in-style malty beer.

This is good to know. Last week, I got the score sheets from my first ever competition. My entries scored decently at best. The one beer I was most proud of, a partial mash variant of Orfy's Hobgoblin clone didn't do so well, even though everyone who tried it said it was amazing. It was a bit higher alcohol content and I entered it into the "Old Ale" category. I lost a bunch of points in the "Aroma" section because a particular judge said "sweet and malty, but no hop aromas." According to the BJCP style guidelines, in Old Ales “Hop aromas not usually present.” Am I missing something? I scored 4/12 points in Aromas from that particular judge.

The experienced judges gave much more constructive feedback than the amateurs on my score sheets, but scores were generally within a few points of each other. The coolest part was that Randy Mosher judged one of my beers and gave very constructive criticism.

 

[smizak]

The coolest part was that Randy Mosher judged one of my beers and gave very constructive criticism.

That is awesome.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

A) Most judges will score an out of style, hoppy beer better than an in-style malty beer.

That was the biggest ding on my recent Oktoberfest that scored low (26) but the judges were raving about. Too hoppy. Then they said that my Oktoberfest should have been entered as a Dusseldorf or Northern German Alt. If I had known that that was what an Alt was 'supposed' to taste like I would have been making them a LOT more often (actually...at all). So I did learn something which was the whole idea.

 

[jkarp]

You gotta take competitions with a BIG grain of salt. I still get gasps and chuckles when I tell friends my raspberry cider only scored a 17 at the state fair this year. It's by far and away the thing my friends most ask me to brew for them.

Even though I clearly marked the entry as petillant and sweet and put in the description that there was only a hint of raspberry by design, they clobbered it. All judges were BJCP certified and I got comments like "under carbonated", "under attenuated" and "no fruit - entered in wrong category". I just laughed it off as BJCP or not, they clearly didn't know how to judge cider and most likely, mine was judged at the end of the flight when their taste buds were blown.

Competitions can be fun but don't expect too much from them - even usable feedback at times.

 

[McKBrew]

I wish I could judge all of your beers. Send them my way.