Enhancing My Altbier: Feedback and Future Brews - Bronze Winning Recipe

[wildturkey]

Enhancing My Altbier: Feedback and Future Brews
I recently received some valuable feedback from judges about my beer, particularly regarding its body and malt complexity. It’s becoming clear to me just how different the competition experience can be, especially since my beer is often judged in 2-4 oz pours. With such small samples, judges only have 1-2 sips to form their impressions, which may contribute to my beers sometimes lacking the perceived body they deserve.

In response, I’ve crafted a new Altbier recipe that I’ll be brewing tomorrow. This version aims to enhance the body and introduce more subtle complexities in the grain bill, along with a focus on water chemistry.

I’d love to hear your thoughts on creating a delicious Altbier! Your feedback will help me refine my approach and continue improving this beloved style. Cheers to brewing better beers!


2024 Southern California Homebrew Championship

Award: Bronze, 3rd Place

Judge #1 Score: 36
Judge #2 Score: 36

Recipe - 5 Gallons

Water: soft spring water

Grist:

Hops & Finings:

Brewing Schedule

Fermentation
German Ale 1007 - 1.5L starter 1.038
58F until desired gravity is reached
50F 3-4 weeks in secondary

Style Comparison (Beersmith)

Brew Notes:
1.5qt/lb mash thickness
.593 ibu/sg

 

[rmr9]

I’ve been considering returning to an altbier sometime in the near future with some tweaks to a previous recipe I had.

Here’s my take on your recipe:
Swap the pale malt for a good German pilsner malt. I would drop the crystal malt and make up for it with more of the 10L Munich malt - here again I’d make sure to go with a German maltster. I’m in between whether you should leave the Vienna malt in or exchange it for pils or Munich, probably would be fine any of the ways. Could add a couple oz of carafa special ii or blackprinz or similar for a darker color.

Hops I would go German the whole way, bitter with magnum then flavor/aroma with mittelfruh. I think saaz is fine, but myself I’d use mittelfruh instead. Aim for the same ibus I think you’re in a good spot there.

My experience is that competitions can be a bit of a crap shoot. One judge may say “too much yeast character” the next will say “super clean yeast” so brew it the way that will taste best to you.

Regardless congrats on the bronze!

 

[Bobby_M]

Feedback is good, but don't put too much weight on a single competition and completely change your beer. This is especially true if you like it as is. A good example is my Alt below. By the numbers, it's a little low on the bitterness. About half the time, a judge will remark that it should be more bitter while the other half of the time it does very well. It's because the beer tastes great and has a good balance. It really just depends on what commercial alts any given judge has ever had, if ever.

I'll say that I think your hopping schedule is unnecessarily complex and heavy handed for the style. I'd stick to a couple noble varieties.

 

[dmtaylor]

The protein rest is killing your body and head retention. For the love of all that is holy, SKIP THE PROTEIN REST!!

Also ditch the crystal malt.

Beyond that... your recipe is otherwise good. Enjoy.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

As is already written, use German pils malt, get rid of the protein rest, reduce the crystal and/or change with midnight wheat. I'd do a lower infusion temp 149, a 90-minute boil and raise the ferm temp a bit to 60-62.

 

[MaxStout]

If you like the beer, your work is done.

If you want something closer to authentic, ditch the crystal, use German Pilsner malt--Weyermann or Bestmalz. A touch of Carafa if you want some color. Simplify the hop schedule. A neutral bittering hop and a noble hop for flavor/aroma are all you need. And a single-infusion mash is fine for this. Altbier is really a very simple beer.

 

[jdauria]

You need to enter a beer in at least three comps to really get a take on how it's really being judged. Saying that, you also have to keep in mind that judging is very subjective, and if your beer is early in a flight, judges sometimes in the back of their mind, don't want to score a beer too high, thinking that what if there are better beers coming up. But 36 is a really good score. Well done!

As for the recipe, as others have said, dump the Pale malt for a good Pilsner malt, for me, that would be Weyermann Barke Pils. But I would also drop 1-2 pounds of the Pilsner malt and replace it with Cologne malt for a little more complexity. Friend of mine killed it on the comp circuit before coming a pro, with his Alt and he swore by Cologne malt. Lose the crystal, if you need to adjust color, maybe an ounce or 2 of Carafa Special I or II instead.

As for hops, you are on the high side for gravity, but low side for IBU's and an Altbier should have more balance. The style guideline says "A moderately colored, well-attenuated, bitter beer with a rich maltiness balancing a strong bitterness", so if it were me, I would push the IBUs up to 40-45. I would replace the Centennial with a German Magnum hop and target at least 20-25 IBUs in that 60 min addition, and then the rest in the 30 and 15 additions.

Zero need for a protein rest with the grain bill you had, or with any suggested substitutes. Style guideline calls for medium dry to dry finish. So I would do a single infusion mash at 148-149F.

 

[stamandster]

Agree with what others mentioned (BU:GU ratio's, hop choices, mash schedule, loosing crystal, subbing german pilsner malts), two additional things. Consider adjusting your mash pH to around 5.6-5.8. The other is a different yeast that enhanced malt expression such as the Omega Yeast OYL-111 German Bock Lager Yeast, Omega Yeast OYL-107 Oktoberfest, or Wyeast 2308 Munich Lager Yeast.

As much as you'd like to do everything in one fell swoop, do consider only changing 1 or 2 elements so you know which changes do what to enhance or decrease what you are after.

 

[G_robertus]

I disagree with some posters on the protein rest. With American malt you might not need it, but with certain German malts you could. The question is whether it makes your beer better, but I'd say try it out for yourself. Many German and Dutch brewers still perform one with good results, also in competitions. Not all German malts need them, but there are less modified variants out there.

Regarding your ingredients, I'd switch to continental and preferably German. Malt and hops. I've tried a few American(-style) pale malts and they're just plain boring with no character. Not saying they're all like that, but I wasn't impressed personally and wouldn't use them in this style. I can't say anything about the caramel or Munich/Vienna, but I can imagine they're different. Same with hops, make it German and don't overcomplicate. Your yeast should be a solid choice.
I've been to Düsseldorf a few months ago and I've tried nearly all of the major and some minor breweries' alts. There is a LOT of variation between breweries. Most are not toasty/roasty at all and more in the caramel range of flavours. I preferred those as the toast/roast was quite distracting and in my opinion disturbed the balance of the beer. The toast makes beers very dry and sometimes even noticeably chocolaty and that is not what you'd want. Use plenty of Munich and caramel for colour and flavour, adjust with a tiny amount of (late) dehusked malt if you really want it darker, but I saw a post of someone attempting to clone Schumacher who said it was still too roasty and distracting. Hops varied greatly. Some were very bitter, some less. Some have late hops, some don't. Most were assertively bitter (30-40 IBU), but there was one that seemed to be 50+ IBU. Kind of like a German brown IPA, but still quite drinkable when you get used to it. That to me was the key to the style. You should be able to slam glass after glass without getting tired of it and that's pretty much how they drink them there: they just keep on coming. They should still have a lot of character though and never be boring. Be it more malty, more hoppy or balanced where you get both without either distracting from the other, make it inviting to drink.

I got so excited by the style I looked up a bunch of (German) recipes and maybe you could as well. There doesn't seem to be a golden standard, so do what you like best personally. Some use Munich as base, others pilsner. Some use Vienna, others don't. Little caramel, lots of caramel (2-10%). You get the idea. Most still use a protein rest though, albeit a very short one (5-10 minutes). I'd argue you should make what you like whilst staying within guidelines. If judges don't agree, so be it. Chances are they've never been to Düsseldorf and have no idea what a fresh alt should taste like. The style is not that common outside of Düsseldorf at all I believe, so I'm not sure you'll get them across the pond (fresh) that often either. Just remember you're brewing for yourself and you should like it most.

 

[jdauria]

G_Robertus makes excellent points. To the original poster, what you really need to decide is whether you want to brew an authentic altbier or one that will score well in competitions in the US. It's not always the same especially when those judging the beer in the US, for the most part have have never tried the real thing and are judging on the guidelines alone or maybe also their experience with Americanized versions of the style. Like a local brewery near me who made a Kolsch but hopped it with Citra and Cascade. Nope, that's not a Kolsch, that's a hoppy blonde ale or a Pale Ale.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I’d love to hear your thoughts on creating a delicious Altbier!

The style guideline says "A moderately colored, well-attenuated, bitter beer with a rich maltiness balancing a strong bitterness", so if it were me, I would push the IBUs up to 40-45.

This thread may be useful:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/what-is-alt-beer.33694/page-2#post-9185386

It's one of those styles like ESB, where the one that most foreigners have heard of, is actually rather atypical. Uerig is way more bitter than typical alts, the Dusseldorf ones are around 30IBU and the Munster tradition is typically below 20IBU, sometimes as low as 12IBU.

As is typical of many Old world beers the grist of the "real" ones is pretty simple, just pilsner and maybe 10% Munich - but definitely no crystal.

 

[Amahl2442]

My take on a Sticke Alt. For a 20-gallon batch size,

20 lb. Weyermann Munich II
20 lb. BestMalz Vienna
1 lb. BestMalz CaraMunich II
8 oz. Carafa I

5 oz. Magnum, FWH (8.9%)

K97 dry Kolsch yeast, 1 L slurry from a previous batch of Kolsch

RO water with 20 g CaCl

OG: 15P
FG: 2.5P

Strike@175
Mash@148F 20 min, then 152F 40 min. Sparge 163F. Ferm@62F, Diacetyl@65 for 7 days.

I used 3 drops silicone anti foam in the FV because this yeast likes to blow out with volcanic enthusiasm, but it’s a good attenuator—this is a style that needs to be dry yet malty. It’s just very difficult to get K97 to drop out of the beer, so it needs to cold crash a couple of weeks before kegging. I prefer alt beers without the IPA hop punch, but that’s just me.