BEER + BBQ = HEALTHY!!!!(marinade negates carcinogens)

[HomebrewCraig]

Taubes did advocate Atkins at one point, and then stopped advocating. once he wrote his own "diet" book.

I thoroughly enjoy my lentils, cauliflower, broccoli, mushrooms, leeks, and every other vegetable and fruit out there.

I may indeed live longer, but that's only part of it. The biggest consideration is the quality of life enjoyed for a much longer period of time. Less aches and pains, far fewer medicine prescriptions, no invasive surgeries... So if I can spend years enjoying life in a manner as I have for the last few decades, awesome. You know those surgeries which crack your ribcage open, or inflate balloons in your arteries? They really don't fix anything. The underlying health issues are still there. It's like spray painting the rust on your fenders. Looks better for a short while, but the problems remain.


Enjoy your steak. I never said that it was wrong to to eat meat.. But it is not without it's health risks.

 

[CGVT]

The problem is that none of what you are claiming is proven. None. Zero. Nada.

You read a book and believe it. Good for you, but it does not make it so.

 

[HomebrewCraig]

Then you must have missed the part about hundreds of peer-reviewed studies, thousands of daughter studies, many of which were similarly peer-reviewed.... So you are categorically wrong when you state that none of what I have claimed is proven. Quite to the contrary:

http://www.pcrm.org/health/cancer-resources/diet-cancer/facts/meat-consumption-and-cancer-risk

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/71/3/849.full

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2121650/

http://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ns-raises-cancer-risk-for-middle-aged-people/

So please, don't pretend that it's unproven. It's well-proven.

I read a book, and it challenged the belief system I have been culturally raised in. And then I read more books. Attended lectures. Spoke to certified nutritionists. Watched documentaries. Read some more. Researched the web. And together with my family, we made a choice to change the things we put into our bodies.

So yes, that first book was my paradigm shifting, gateway book. But isn't that how it almost always happens? One book. One documentary. One heart attack...

If you choose to believe some puffy Atkins-clone pseudo-quack non-doctor who has done ZERO clinical research instead of peer-reviewed medical studies supported by volumes of documentation, feel free.

Maybe you don't want to believe that there are health risks associated with eating meat, because you're afraid it may undermine the way you live?

 

[CGVT]

*sigh**

 

[GuldTuborg]

You can both take your simplistic studies and myopic conclusions and shove them. I'm going to eat a steak with a wheat and corn based pilaf on the side tomorrow, in your honor.

 

[chocotaco]

The MOST convincing thing I had ever seen was the simple "death rate" chart from countries where nazis had confuscated all the animals.

People seemed to just stop dying after being vegetarian for a year or so.

Or, maybe it was because the Nazis also killed all the old and sick people.

Correlation =/= causation. There are always cofactors.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Moderation. The UNFAILING truth. No extreme is ever the best. 1 meal a day including MEAT, and I bet I outlive and out HEALTH a vegetarian.

That, and the healthiest vegetarian, tincture making, intelligent guy I ever met, was killed four wheeling way too young on the organic farm where he worked while writing his book.

A fluke to be sure, but a lesson nonetheless.

 

[HomebrewCraig]

Ah... The 'argumentum ad temperantiam' logical fallacy. Except, compromise is not always the best answer.

How about for smoking? Is smoking in moderation the healthiest option?

 

[CGVT]

Really, Dude?

Take you anti meat stance to a vegetarian thread.

Maybe you can go to an IPA thread and rail on about the evils of hops.

Troll.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Dangerous like corn.

 

[CGVT]

Elevated insulin levels. Much worse for you than saturated fat.

We did not evolve to eat wheat and corn. Agriculture is a blip in the evolutionary history of man. We evolved to eat meat, vegetables and the occasional seasonal fruit. That is what our bodies thrive on.

Believe what you want.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Yawn. Nothing special about grains in that regard. Fruit, beer, and lots of other foods do the same. Silly paleo reasoning is bogus.

We're weak ass scavengers. We evolved to eat most anything we could get our hands on.

Believe what you want.

I will.

 

[krackin]

Dangerous like corn.

I had a guffaw over that one myself. Actually the grain and corn compilation. Corn is grain fer cry sake.

 

[krackin]

Or, maybe it was because the Nazis also killed all the old and sick people.

Correlation =/= causation. There are always cofactors.

Yep, the Nazis were progressive socialists. They had a final solution for every problem.

 

[CGVT]

Do some reading before you scoff.

FWIW, I do not follow a paleo (or Atkins) diet. I think it is rather silly, but I do try to control my insulin levels and swings by avoiding grains and sugars as much as possible.

As I said above, eat what you want. I really don't care and it is not my concern, but if you start an I love corn thread rest assured that I won't come into it and post about the evils of eating corn. Insufferable activism is not attractive.

 

[krackin]

FWIW, I'm an omnivore as were my ancestors averaging 90 or so years of age .

I shade back from dairy excepting butter and cheese. I grow sweet corn on a commercial basis. Sweet corn in season is pretty much mandatory with BBQ here.

There are hundreds of varieties of sweet corn available today of which I grow only 2 or 3 as my standard varieties and I trial new ones each year. Part of my job, as I see it, is to inform my customers as to what they are buying. Some of my customers must be very careful of sugar and my hired help is instructed to inform them of the potential sugar content of each variety as it is brought out for sale. It isn't the corn that is problematic so much as an individual's physical condition coupled with a lack of knowledge as to what they are consuming. Triplesweets are about as sugar intense as should be consumed by diabetics and then with caution. There again, we explain sugar contents.

Now, a good triplesweet is a far better cream ale grain than that flaked corn cattle feed that is commonly used. Personally opined , that same cream ale works better for BBQ for throat wash than anything else.

 

[HomebrewCraig]

Elevated insulin levels. Much worse for you than saturated fat.

We did not evolve to eat wheat and corn. Agriculture is a blip in the evolutionary history of man. We evolved to eat meat, vegetables and the occasional seasonal fruit. That is what our bodies thrive on.

Believe what you want.

Incorrect. A carnivore's jaws move up and down with minimal sideways motion. The jaw motion of an omnivore is similar. These are tools that are useful for the tasks of shearing, ripping and tearing flesh and swallowing it whole. Omnivores swallow their food whole and/or with simple crushing. Man's, as well as other herbivore's jaws cannot shear, but have good side to side and back to front motion. These are tools that are useful for extensive chewing, crushing and grinding of grains and other high fiber foods. Animal flesh cannot be crushed, ground and chewed with the tools man has without some degenerating process such as cooking or frying.

A carnivore or omnivore's saliva does not contain digestive enzymes. Man's, as well as other herbivore's saliva is alkaline, containing carbohydrate digestive enzymes.

A carnivore's or omnivore's small intestine is three to six times the length of its trunk. This is a tool designed for rapid elimination of food that rots quickly. Man's, as well as other herbivore's small intestines are 10 to 12 times the length of their body, and winds itself back and forth in random directions. This is a tool designed for keeping food in it for long enough periods of time so that all the valuable nutrients and minerals can be extracted from it before it enters the large intestine.

A carnivore's or omnivore's large intestine is relatively short and simple, like a pipe. This passage is also relatively smooth and runs fairly straight so that fatty wastes high in cholesterol can easily slide out before they start to putrefy. Man's, as well as other herbivore's large intestines, or colons, are puckered and pouched, an apparatus that runs in three directions (ascending, traversing and descending), designed to hold wastes that originally were foods high in water content. This is so that the fluids can be extracted from these wastes, now that all the useful nutrients and minerals have been extracted and the long journey through the small intestine is over. Substances high in fat and cholesterol that have been putrefying for hours during their long stay in the small intestine tend to get stuck in the pockets that line the large intestine.

A carnivore's teeth are long, sharp and pointed. These are tools that are useful for the task of piercing into flesh. Omnivore's (meat and plant eaters) teeth are similar to that of carnivores. Man's, as well as other herbivore's teeth are not pointed, but flat edged. These are useful tools for biting, crushing and grinding.

Animal flesh, composed of the most highly complex type of protein that exists, requires vast amounts of uric acid to process. Uric acid is released into the system in amounts necessary to break proteins down into amino acids. Uric acid is a toxic substance responsible for the aging process and must be flushed out and dealt with. That is one of the jobs of the liver. In relative terms, a carnivore's liver is a tool designed with the capacity to eliminate ten times as much uric acid as the liver of man or other plant eater.


By the way, you'd have no need to monitor insulin levels if you ate right. No soda, processed sugars, HFCS, etc.

 

[CGVT]

By the way, you'd have no need to monitor insulin levels if you ate right. No soda, processed sugars, HFCS, etc.

Hahaha. You see, I don't have to monitor my insulin level because of the way I eat. I made the decision to reject the government's food pyramid and eat the way I do well before I developed any problems.

Now go away, troll.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Ah... The 'argumentum ad temperantiam' logical fallacy. Except, compromise is not always the best answer.

How about for smoking? Is smoking in moderation the healthiest option?

I would honestly argue that smoking a pipe 3 times a week has the same stress relieving BENEFITS of 2 glasses of wine a night.

 

[HomebrewCraig]

Sure, I can totally believe that a pipe alleviates some stress.. But it doesn't benefit your health.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Sure, I can totally believe that a pipe alleviates some stress.. But it doesn't benefit your health.

Aaaaahhhhhhh..you stepped in it brother....

As sleeping on your back is BEST for your spine!!!!!!!

But sleeping on you back is BAD for your heart.....

Singlemindedness is BAD and we come back to MODERATION.

Stress is the underrated killer. What alleviates stress, but has a 5% chance of causing lethal cancer, seems a good bet to me!

GAWD DAMN!!!! Relieves stress, but doesn't benefit health?????????? You have my pity.

Regardless of what you say, stress management is KEY for ME.

 

[garcia]

Are you all seriously fighting?

 

[HomebrewCraig]

Hahaha. You see, I don't have to monitor my insulin level because of the way I eat. I made the decision to reject the government's food pyramid and eat the way I do well before I developed any problems.

Now go away, troll.

How can you expect me to go away when you keep pitching it straight down the middle for me?

I'd love to see some supporting documentation that says that an elevated insulin level is worse for you than saturated fat. I've not heard that before.

Stooping to name calling during a debate is a sure sign that you're losing it.

By the way, I've managed to keep my statements on the health ramifications of eating animal protein. So my point has not been anti-meat. But I have definitely been very critical of what eating meat does to one's health.

 

[CGVT]

You're right. I'll stop.

All I am doing is giving you a chance to spew your misguided anti-meat propaganda in a thread about BBQ.

I'd love to see some supporting documentation that says that an elevated insulin level is worse for you than saturated fat. I've not heard that before.

Google is your friend. There is a slow but steady change in thinking. Too bad you are embracing the lies, flawed studies and misguided beliefs. Follow the money...

I really don't have time for this. Look it up or don't.

My bacon and eggs are done.

 

[ericbw]

I don't like IPAs in cooking.

Take with that the fact that to me, Stone Ruination is about the perfect IPA, and Bell's 2 hearted is about the perfect beer.

Bitter food does not agree with my palate.

Coffee marinated steak is fantastic, so stout marinated steak would be great, I am sure.

ALSO.......dark, unfiltered homebrew has the most antioxidants......arguably more than red wine, and so the most benefit in regards to this article.......(I assume)

I agree on the bitter beer for cooking. It seems like the flavor cooks off and only bitterness is left. I thought barley cooked in Scotch ale would be good... wrong. It was almost not worth eating.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I agree on the bitter beer for cooking. It seems like the flavor cooks off and only bitterness is left. I thought barley cooked in Scotch ale would be good... wrong. It was almost not worth eating.

Unfortunately, beer in cooking is uncharted territory.

I have seen recipes call for "one bottle of beer"


Or as Emirel says "A bottle of good beer"

WTF?


A stout will be SO much different from a pale ale.

That is like saying "1 tablespoon of a good seasoning"

 

[StonesBally]

I agree that meat is not bad. Saturated fat and cholesterol are not either. It is grain fed meat that is bad. Grass fed meat vegetables and occasional fruit are the best human foods. We evolved to eat these things. Grains legumes and sugar are the worst. They are the source of disease pain and a welling in the body.

Humans have a carnivore digestive tract. We eat high nutrient food (meat) that is digested in our one carnivore stomach. Animals that eat only plants have multiple stomach and or regurgitate food to rechew it such as cows. One animal that should be be carnivore like us (gorillas) eat only plants. They need to eat all day and when they pooh they eat it a second time.

To think that our bodies evolved over millenia to eat meat and veg then when agriculture was developed roughly 10000 years ago we somehow hyper evolved to be able to consume grains is completely naive in my opinion. It is completely unscientific.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Taubes did advocate Atkins at one point, and then stopped advocating. once he wrote his own "diet" book.

I thoroughly enjoy my lentils, cauliflower, broccoli, mushrooms, leeks, and every other vegetable and fruit out there.

I may indeed live longer, but that's only part of it. The biggest consideration is the quality of life enjoyed for a much longer period of time. Less aches and pains, far fewer medicine prescriptions, no invasive surgeries... So if I can spend years enjoying life in a manner as I have for the last few decades, awesome. You know those surgeries which crack your ribcage open, or inflate balloons in your arteries? They really don't fix anything. The underlying health issues are still there. It's like spray painting the rust on your fenders. Looks better for a short while, but the problems remain.


Enjoy your steak. I never said that it was wrong to to eat meat.. But it is not without it's health risks.

I know this is from a bit back in the thread but here is my $0.02, but are you saying that my body is wrong? I eat pretty much anything, large servings of meat along with some veggies and fruit and I have zero health issues. I take no medication, I am 6 foot tall and have been 145-155lbs for the past 15 years. I do not stick by any nutritional eat this/dont eat that/eat this much of this, etc.

Nutritionists do not know what your body needs. They are just guessing much like weather people do. Its all an educated guess. They cannot explain how someone can live off of only french fries and chicken nuggets where others who eat a 'balanced' diet get sick. Everones body is different. My grandmother pan fried up bacon and eggs every morning, ate a lot of fats and lived to 90. I know other people who eat mainly veggies with small servings of meats and have all sorts of health issues. Maybe plants are bad for us?

And for the arguments about how our systems are built, why has our appendix shrunk away to almost nothing and cause us health issues now?

If man was not created to be an omnivore all of our teeth would be like our molars. We would not have kanine teeth or our front chopping teeth. Man is actually more of a forager/scavenger like dogs. We are made to eat meat if it is available. We are made to eat veggies as well when thats available. If we were desgned for all veggies we would be ruminates or at least have more efficient digestive systems to actually be able to digest plants.

I am going to wait for iron clad evidence that says man must eat this. This being through thoroughly tested scientific means without the added "Buy My Book" BS attached.

And if you are talking high quality protein sources, you really should be eating bugs. They are the most renewable, high quality source of protein on earth. And they do not injure the environment as much as the chemicals and other stuff sprayed on our farmland.

 

[HomebrewCraig]

I've posted many links which show the links between animal protein and cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc. But here's a true story about a doctor who, after years of clinical research approached his hospital for a very telling nutritional experiment on 24 of the sickest patients the hospital was seeing for recurrent heart disease issues.

The study was initiated in 1985 with the premise that patients who were seriously ill with triple vessel coronary artery disease could arrest and possibly reverse their disease through plant-based nutrition. The goal was to maintain total serum cholesterol below 150mg/dl and an LDL below 80mg/dl. Six of 24 patients who were noncompliant were released from the study during the first 6-12 months and returned to their expert cardiologists.

When reviewed at 12 years of follow up, 17 of the 18 patients had no further coronary events. One patient became noncompliant at 6 years (He was still eating plant based but was eating the NO-FAT sugar, white-flour-filled products) and developed recurrent disease necessitating by-pass surgery. It is of interest that those same 18 patients during the 8 years prior to study onset had experienced 49 coronary events while in the care of expert cardiologists. All compliant patients are doing well over 20 years later, including those who had been told by expert cardiologists at study onset that they had less than one year to live.

And then there's a diet study conducted by James D. Anderson, M.D., of 50 patients—25 with Type I diabetes and 25 with Type II diabetes—who were taking insulin to control their blood glucose concentrations. The authors reported that after these patients switched from the American-style diet recommended by the American Diabetes Association to a high-fiber, low-fat, plant-based diet, the patients with Type I diabetes were able to reduce their insulin by an average of 40 percent within three weeks of changing their diet, and 24 of the 25 patients with Type II diabetes were able to stop taking their insulin altogether within weeks.

http://books.google.com/books?id=KgRR12F0RPAC&pg=PA151#v=onepage&q&f=false


Eating right isn't just to maintain health.. It's able to reverse disease, as seen in the two examples I've quoted above.

 

[HomebrewCraig]

I know this is from a bit back in the thread but here is my $0.02, but are you saying that my body is wrong? I eat pretty much anything, large servings of meat along with some veggies and fruit and I have zero health issues. I take no medication, I am 6 foot tall and have been 145-155lbs for the past 15 years. I do not stick by any nutritional eat this/dont eat that/eat this much of this, etc.

And if you are talking high quality protein sources, you really should be eating bugs. They are the most renewable, high quality source of protein on earth. And they do not injure the environment as much as the chemicals and other stuff sprayed on our farmland.

I'm saying that your body may not have yet reached the point where it speaks loudly to you that it is in need of attention. There's no manual that says if you eat X amount of animal protein calories for Y period of time, you will experience Z health effects by age W. Each of us are different. Each of us have differing abilities to absorb the bad things. Each of us ingest different amounts, at different times, in different conditions, of different quality. Some get sick quick, and others may never get sick.

The body is an amazing organism.. The heart can self-repair. As one artery clogs with plaque and begins to close off, other arteries will widen to allow blood flow. Problems arise when people exert themselves, have surgeries, binge diet/binge eat, because then the plaque peels off and travels, resulting in catastrophic injury.

Some people may never know that they have heart disease until their first (and potentially fatal) heart attack. And someone gets to that point, only immediate and serious changes will save the person from repeated cardiovascular events and death.



I totally agree with you about pesticides. There are many studies linking pesticides with Colony Collapse Disorder (wiping out native bee populations), autism, cancer, brain disorders, and a long laundry list of other health issues. My family grows as much as our lot can give us, and eat organic what we cannot.

Speaking of eating bugs.. I have eaten a few different kinds and enjoyed the taste. For me, it's a bit of a mental exercise to put that first fork full in my mouth.. ITS BUGS! and all that. But once you get over that, the taste is not unenjoyable.