Beer and blood pressure/cholesterol meds - feedback appreciated

[Rev2010]

If this is the wrong place to post Mods please move - I didn't know where else to post this.

I'll state right off this thread is NOT meant to give any form of medical advice whatsoever that supersedes any doctor or pharmacological information!

I have high blood pressure and high cholesterol and have had it for many years no matter how healthy I've tried to be. It's time I go on some meds. My doctor prescribed me Losartan for blood pressure control. I told him I drink often, when I get home from work, and that I have 4 pints or so. He shrugged it off saying it's ok and Losartan is well tested and tolerated. He also said it's ok so long as one drinks in moderation. Well obviously 4 pints or so a night is not moderate and on the weekends I drink most of the day. I don't get toasted or anything and I am NOT a hard liquor guy. I did some Googling and Losartan seems to be an ok drug for one that drinks as I do. However, I looked up Cholesterol meds and almost all seem to say drinking is very bad as the drugs work in the liver and drinking while on them can damage the liver.

So, my reason for posting is to see who here might be on blood pressure or cholesterol meds and continuing their routine drinking without any serious adverse side effects. I am really hoping to just get some feedback here and I will say it again - I am not meaning any info provided to be of advice that supersedes doctor/pharmacological information. I am merely looking for real world beer drinkers that unfortunately have to take these medications and their experiences with them. Thank you!


Rev.

 

[evrose]

This type thread is a REALLY bad idea. All it's going to do is fill with anecdotal experiences which are statistically meaningless and are only likely to show a tiny portion of an individuals medical history and relevant health issues. There are other reasons why it's not a good idea. For example, it can take many years for negative consequences of drinking and cholesterol medications to appear. Just because your liver has survived 5 or 10 years of chemical trauma doesn't mean you're in the clear.

Full disclosure: I'm a doctor.

 

[Rev2010]

I realize all that but what is a person to do? I'm a beer connoisseur and a home brewer. I can either do zero about my issue or I can ask others for their experiences. Doctors always have pre-programmed responses and always play the side of "everything in moderation and eat healthy and exercise" - things that I won't realistically do. I have a stressful job and simply can not currently make the time to exercise when I get home. I am however eating very healthy, and it hasn't made a lick of difference.

I already stated several times that any feedback given will not be held to any sort of "factual" basis. I know everyone is different and time makes a huge difference. Rather than negativity, a few responses from people of our sort that are on such meds would be more helpful.


Rev.

 

[BWN]

I take medicine fror cholesterol and my doctor knows I drink he has never said anything. I have never had a problem and I have been taking it for 10 years. My father has been taking it for as long as I can remember and is a drinker and hasn't had a problem. I am no doctor or any kind of medical professional though.

 

[evrose]

I don't mean to sound too harsh about it, and I do acknowledge that your intentions are good. I'm not trying to be negative. However, in my years of lurking about the depths of the Interwebs, combined with training and experience as a physician can only lead me to conclude that threads like this rarely, if ever, lead to a productive exchange of information.

" Doctors always have pre-programmed responses and always play the side of "everything in moderation and eat healthy and exercise" - things that I won't realistically do."

Maybe there's a reason we all say this, eh? What I'm really hearing you say is that you don't like the advice you've been given and are looking to find other who will give you an answer that is more conducive to continuing the lifestyle you have and like. That way you can justify your decision based on the answers of some random internet, beer brewing forum denizens. Again, I don't mean to sound harsh, I really don't. But I've seen this happen before. Hundreds of times.

Look, you have to make decisions in your life and ultimately take responsibility for those decisions. It's a FACT that taking cholesterol meds in combination with moderate or higher alcohol consumption carries a risk of liver damage. Sorry, but it just is. Doctors aren't telling you that because of some pre-programmed reflex programmed in to them in medical school. It's up to YOU how you react to that information. You may decide it's a risk worth taking. Other's won't. There's no right or wrong answer to something like this. A risk is just that, it's not a guarantee that you'll have problems, but it worsens your odds.

A discussion of the risks and how people deal with those things can be helpful in some cases. What I think can be dangerous are threads filled with anecdotes like, "my grandpa drank a gallon of Wild Turkey every day, ate 64 ounces of prime rib for lunch, never exercised a day in his life, smoked five cigars before noon, and had sex with Thai hookers he picked up in Bangkok bars for 60 years and he died at the age of 95 in an accident when he was skydiving." :rockin:

 

[GySgtLynn]

Let's leave Thailand hookers outta this LOL..

 

[Rev2010]

Evrose, thanks so much for continuing to try to get my thread shut down. You'll likely succeed. This is the internet, it's a discussion forum. I didn't think it would be such a big deal trying to discuss other people's experiences.


Rev.

 

[evrose]

Evrose, thanks so much for continuing to try to get my thread shut down.

That loud "whoooooshing" noise everyone is hearing is the sound of The Point flying at high speed over the head of the rev.

I tried. Carry on fellow brewers. Carry on.

 

[evrose]

Let's leave Thailand hookers outta this LOL..

I spent two nights in Bangkok at the tail end of honeymoon last year. While walking around at night, looking for tasty street food, the following conversation took place:

Me, "Hey, did you see that honey? That hooker just grabbed my hand and asked if I was doing anything."

Wife, "How much did she want?"

Me, "WHAT? Um, I didn't ask."

Wife, "Go back and ask. I'm curious. Get an hourly rate."

Me, "Are you freakin' serious, or are those fried bugs we ate an hour ago displaying hallucinogenic properties?"

Wife, "I just want to know what a Thai street hooker makes. We'll never have a better chance to find out. Now, are you going to ask, or do I have to?"

Me, "Oh honey, you'll get a different rate than I would, I imagine." I immediately regretted saying that.

Wife, "Challenge Accepted! We meet back here in 10 minutes with prices." And off she went.

True story.

 

[Sithdad]

I spent two nights in Bangkok at the tail end of honeymoon last year. While walking around at night, looking for tasty street food, the following conversation took place:

Me, "Hey, did you see that honey? That hooker just grabbed my hand and asked if I was doing anything."

Wife, "How much did she want?"

Me, "WHAT? Um, I didn't ask."

Wife, "Go back and ask. I'm curious. Get an hourly rate."

Me, "Are you freakin' serious, or are those fried bugs we ate an hour ago displaying hallucinogenic properties?"

Wife, "I just want to know what a Thai street hooker makes. We'll never have a better chance to find out. Now, are you going to ask, or do I have to?"

Me, "Oh honey, you'll get a different rate than I would, I imagine." I immediately regretted saying that.

Wife, "Challenge Accepted! We meet back here in 10 minutes with prices." And off she went.

True story.

You can't leave the story end like that! Where the prices different? Details, man! Details!



In Re: to the OP. I have been taking Simvastatin for 15 years, however, I drink very rarely. There are weeks I'll have 4 beers and there are weeks when I have none. My liver panel comes back good every time. With that being said. This is one of those things where you're just going to have to "suck it up" and change your lifestyle (i.e. drink less). I, too, have had to make a similar difficult decision.
20 years ago I tore my medial meniscus (cartilage) while playing soccer in high school and I stopped playing soccer. Got it repaired & went through therapy and I haven't had a problem since then. That is until February of this year. I decided to play competitive soccer again and sure enough I tore the exact same meniscus in the same knee. Now, I've only got 70% of my meniscus left. I LOVE soccer. I love watching it, coaching my kids, but most of all I love playing. If I want to continue to destroy my knee I can keep playing. If I don't want to have knee replacement I have to stop (which is exactly what I've decided to do). I'm never playing competitive soccer again and it SUCKS.
Adjust your way of life. Ask your doctor how many beers a day is too many and work from there. Make session beers (<4% abv). You'll still be able to drink a lot but since they're low alcohol it might not be as bad for you.

 

[HopSong]

Hey Rev.. I'm in the same position as you are. IF you are looking for someone to say it's OK.. when it's not.. why post? I don't have any issue.. as you.. with the HBP meds.. Mine are simply diuretics. However, I take Simvistatin for cholestrol. Evrose is correct.. no matter what you may WANT to hear. I have one brew per night.. maybe two on a special day. The cumulative effects may NOT show up for years. If you want the whooosh to go over your head.. so be it. You have heard a caution... both from the documentation and from, now, a couple of other people. YMMV until the fuel runs out.

 

[c1377]

I realize all that but what is a person to do? I'm a beer connoisseur and a home brewer. I can either do zero about my issue or I can ask others for their experiences. Doctors always have pre-programmed responses and always play the side of "everything in moderation and eat healthy and exercise" - things that I won't realistically do. I have a stressful job and simply can not currently make the time to exercise when I get home. I am however eating very healthy, and it hasn't made a lick of difference.

I already stated several times that any feedback given will not be held to any sort of "factual" basis. I know everyone is different and time makes a huge difference. Rather than negativity, a few responses from people of our sort that are on such meds would be more helpful.

Rev.

Howdy.
I'd love to offer assistance!

Truth is the medical profession in this country is good at stitching people up but horrible at keeping people healthy!
Sorry Doc. but the stats don't lie.

Advice:
First I would question what you call "healthy" eating.
My general rule of thumb is that if 50% of what you eat is not acquired fresh, frozen, or preserved raw... you are probably not a healthy eater.
If your kitchen contains "diet" or "reduced fat" or soy items, or if you are obese, ditto.
It is hard to live in the USA today and have a healthy diet... but it is possible, and the body is incredibly adept at adjusting to our intake.
With today's proliferation of chemicals and GMO food and general lack of variety (pretty much all preprocessed food is made of corn) is leading to a greater and greater number of nutritional health issues ranging from Diabetes and High Blood Pressure to Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Headaches, etc.
Another good general practice is to complete a food exclusion diet, to help identify any food allergies you might have that your body is silently suffering from.

Tip 2: Anaerobic exercises like weight lifting boosts good cholesterol, aerobic exercises like jogging reduces bad cholesterol.
Make time to get a little of both in every week. 20 min 2x weekly is better than nothing. Also, get plenty of sleep 7+ hours per night.

Last: don't poison yourself to death. Get a few growlers, sip and save for later.

Personally,
About the time I turned 30, I started having moderately high blood pressure (my cystolic blood pressure increased from sub 100 to around 145+).
I too do not have time to excessively exercise, and eat healthy.
I did have to kick caffeine, and re-learn how to breathe properly (Under stress, it is common to hold one's breath...), stop eating store purchased eggs, and get more sleep. A few months later I had successfully gotten my blood pressure under control (115-ish) with no meds.

I hope you are able to address this from multiple angles.
Hope my rant wasn't too preachy....
Health in the US of A is a touchy subject.

 

[Rev2010]

If you want the whooosh to go over your head.. so be it.

There is no "whoosh" going over my head. I explained myself quite clearly in my first post.

I am not looking for any "it's ok" "take this" etc type comments whatsoever. There are however many drugs out there available and many people that have experience with certain ones. Some may be more tolerant to drinking than others. I still cannot see why discussing this is so taboo, I'm merely asking those that might be on such meds for their feedback or experiences.

Evrose signed up here this month and has like 55 posts under his belt so posting to say how such a thread is a "BAD idea" just seems kind of arrogant to me for someone so new here. My original post was not ridiculous and I said nothing as preposterous as "I need the safest drugs out there so I can binge drink! - HAAALLLP!!". I'm merely looking for people's experiences. I have no problem with his first post, I just don't see the need for him to post right after to say basically the same thing to further his point.

Anyhow, thanks to those of you that have posted actual responses to my original post. I'm not looking to make this some silly argument, nor am I asking any sort of medical advice - a point which seems to be whoosing over some other posters heads. I'm merely asking those of you currently taking such meds your experiences, whether it be positive or negative.


Rev.

 

[Mongrel]

I spent two nights in Bangkok at the tail end of honeymoon last year. While walking around at night, looking for tasty street food, the following conversation took place:

Me, "Hey, did you see that honey? That hooker just grabbed my hand and asked if I was doing anything."

Wife, "How much did she want?"

Me, "WHAT? Um, I didn't ask."

Wife, "Go back and ask. I'm curious. Get an hourly rate."

Me, "Are you freakin' serious, or are those fried bugs we ate an hour ago displaying hallucinogenic properties?"

Wife, "I just want to know what a Thai street hooker makes. We'll never have a better chance to find out. Now, are you going to ask, or do I have to?"

Me, "Oh honey, you'll get a different rate than I would, I imagine." I immediately regretted saying that.

Wife, "Challenge Accepted! We meet back here in 10 minutes with prices." And off she went.

True story.

lol, TIT (This Is Thailand)!

 

[evrose]

Howdy... blah blah blah blah...
Health in the US of A is a touchy subject.

What a load of @#*#.

Just about every word of it... congrats, that's not easy to do.

 

[evrose]

Evrose signed up here this month and has like 55 posts under his belt so posting to say how such a thread is a "BAD idea" just seems kind of arrogant to me for someone so new here.

I didn't just sign up for the Internet this month. I've been dealing with message boards since the late 80's, long before 99% of the country was online. I'm new here, but this isn't my first forum - nor my first public discussion on this topic.

 

[estricklin]

I'm not going to pretend like I have an answer for you like a lot of people here would. Instead, let me point out that your DOCTOR would probably be the one to talk to about this. If you don't feel like he answered your question with enough detail then get another one. There are plenty of e'm out there. They have all been to Medical School...unlike me or most anyone else who is going to post here. Whether you have a lot of faith in modern medicine or not you have to admit even the worst doctor still knows 100 times more about this than you or I would right?

If I have questions about homebrewing, I would ask other homebrewers. If I needed my truck worked on I would take it to a mechanic. If I needed a divorce I would go to a lawyer. See where I'm going with this?

I don't mean to upset you and I can appreciate your situation. You have health concerns and sometimes it's good to hear the experiences of others.

 

[biochemedic]

Truth is the medical profession in this country is good at stitching people up but horrible at keeping people healthy!
Sorry Doc. but the stats don't lie.

Warning:

I think this could be best rephrased as: "The people in this country are horrible at keeping themselves healthy." Doctors have little chance at "keeping people healthy" when patients don't want to listen to advice or make the necessary lifestyle choices. Health is largely the responsibility of the individual, not their doctor.

They have all been to Medical School...unlike me or most anyone else who is going to post here.

You've already had two post...and I agree with everything evrose has said...

 

[Zamial]

I am not a Dr. nor do I pretend to have stellar advice for you Rev. I did a "diabetic friendly" beer with testing and have my own thread on that subject.

If you are not going to listen to your Dr. OR you do not like what they advise; test it on yourself in moderation and report back. Maybe you need to have 1-2 Imperial beers vs. 4 standard beers. (I am convinced that the liver filters on volume not % strength for anything wine strength or less but I can't prove that in anyway...)

Also I would cut out all known sources of cholesterol in foods, where possible. No eggs, Blah, blah, ect, ect. (I am sure you know this stuff or can find out.)

I hate exercising and recently found a game that tricks me into doing it. So my advise is find something active that you like to do no matter how dumb it may seem to everyone else.

 

[SharonaZamboni]

* Anecdotal Evidence * My husband recently lost 30 pounds and reduced his (borderline high) total cholesterol level by 30 points in the past few months. The only change he made was to drastically reduce his carbohydrate intake. We watched the documentary Fat Head, which tries to explain carbohydrate metabolism, so he decided to do his own diet experiment.

 

[CGVT]

* Anecdotal Evidence * My husband recently lost 30 pounds and reduced his (borderline high) total cholesterol level by 30 points in the past few months. The only change he made was to drastically reduce his carbohydrate intake. We watched the documentary Fat Head, which tries to explain carbohydrate metabolism, so he decided to do his own diet experiment.

+1 The problem we have is that our beer (almost all beer) is very high in carbs

FWIW, my two cents...

Cut out SUGAR, bread, pasta potatoes, rice and corn. Don't eat anything that says low fat on it(they add sugar to replace the fat). Read labels and make sure you are not taking in added sugar.

Eat protein and veggies, real butter, full fat cheeses, mayo and salad dressings (don't fear fat, it's not the problem)

Cut the beer out for a few weeks and then drink in moderation and you will *most likely* see those numbers (and your weight) come down.

You need to try to make your beer a treat, not an all day every day thing.

 

[onthekeg]

To live a long and healthy life, you have to give up all worth living for.

 

[aubiecat]

+1 The problem we have is that our beer (almost all beer) is very high in carbs

FWIW, my two cents...

Cut out SUGAR, bread, pasta potatoes, rice and corn. Don't eat anything that says low fat on it(they add sugar to replace the fat). Read labels and make sure you are not taking in added sugar.

Eat protein and veggies, real butter, full fat cheeses, mayo and salad dressings (don't fear fat, it's not the problem)

Cut the beer out for a few weeks and then drink in moderation and you will *most likely* see those numbers (and your weight) come down.

You need to try to make your beer a treat, not an all day every day thing.

Believe me, I am living proof this method works.
5 weeks ago I went on a low carb diet and completely cut out beer for 2 1/2 weeks. I'm no a big drinker so it wasn't a big deal to me.
I have lost 15lbs. so far. I drink a few beers here and there, sometimes 1-2 a day but more often none. I feel better and have more energy to boot.

 

[SharonaZamboni]

The low carb thing keeps the Mr. out of my keg. I try to save my carbohydrate quota for beer, LOL. I've been making a brew that seems to come in at 16 grams/12 oz.

 

[cbmikey]

+1 The problem we have is that our beer (almost all beer) is very high in carbs

FWIW, my two cents...

Cut out SUGAR, bread, pasta potatoes, rice and corn. Don't eat anything that says low fat on it(they add sugar to replace the fat). Read labels and make sure you are not taking in added sugar.

Eat protein and veggies, real butter, full fat cheeses, mayo and salad dressings (don't fear fat, it's not the problem)

Cut the beer out for a few weeks and then drink in moderation and you will *most likely* see those numbers (and your weight) come down.

You need to try to make your beer a treat, not an all day every day thing.

<anecdotal evidence>

I have also done this over the last 18 months or so. But if I may modify this list a little, you don't need to cut out all carbs. Just look at the labels and keep track of your servings. No more than 20 grams of carbs for breakfast, no more than 40 for lunch and 40 or less for supper. A good rule of thumb is that if it's white (sugar/bread/rice) then don't eat it. Go for wheat (or rye) bread. Get brown and wild rice instead of white. Use brown sugar or honey to sweeten things a bit. Doing this combined with a little exercise (20 minutes or so with 10lb dumb bells and walking a couple miles twice a week) and some cholesterol and BP pills (and gout prevention but that's another story) has helped me drop close to 40 lbs, my cholesterol dropped over 100 points and my blood pressure went from 150/100 to 120/80. Plus drinking only lighter beers has helped me keep my liver happy.

Oh and one other thing: drink LOTS of water! It's amazing how your body can flush the toxins/crap out if you drink plenty of water!

Let me also say that I used to be a skeptic of the low-carb diet and everything but I have become a believer.

</anecdote>

 

[cbmikey]

The low carb thing keeps the Mr. out of my keg. I try to save my carbohydrate quota for beer, LOL. I've been making a brew that seems to come in at 16 grams/12 oz.

Any chance of sharing that recipe?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Lipitor and Lisinopril. I am not a moderate or beyond drinker tho'.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

If your doctor told you it's ok in moderation and you know you drink more than moderately, it seems like you have a fairly clear direction to go. Add to that your concern about drinking and cholesterol meds as a whole and it seems like you have a very clear choice.

 

[eastoak]

If this is the wrong place to post Mods please move - I didn't know where else to post this.

I'll state right off this thread is NOT meant to give any form of medical advice whatsoever that supersedes any doctor or pharmacological information!

I have high blood pressure and high cholesterol and have had it for many years no matter how healthy I've tried to be. It's time I go on some meds. My doctor prescribed me Losartan for blood pressure control. I told him I drink often, when I get home from work, and that I have 4 pints or so. He shrugged it off saying it's ok and Losartan is well tested and tolerated. He also said it's ok so long as one drinks in moderation. Well obviously 4 pints or so a night is not moderate and on the weekends I drink most of the day. I don't get toasted or anything and I am NOT a hard liquor guy. I did some Googling and it seems to be an ok drug for one that drinks as I do. However, I looked up Cholesterol meds and almost all seem to say drinking is very bad as the drugs work in the liver and drinking while on them can damage the liver.

So, my reason for posting is to see who here might be on blood pressure or cholesterol meds and continuing their routine drinking without any serious adverse side effects. I am really hoping to just get some feedback here and I will say it again - I am not meaning any info provided to be of advice that supersedes doctor/pharmacological information. I am merely looking for real world beer drinkers that unfortunately have to take these medications and their experiences with them. Thank you!


Rev.

high blood pressure + high cholesterol + alcohol + meds that jack up my liver = stop drinking alcohol - is the equation i would see if i was in that situation.

or you can continue and see what happens there really is no way to know what will happen which is why i would just stop. drinking beer is not near as fun as having a healthy, say, liver.

 

[evrose]

Warning:

I think this could be best rephrased as: "The people in this country are horrible at keeping themselves healthy." Doctors have little chance at "keeping people healthy" when patients don't want to listen to advice or make the necessary lifestyle choices. Health is largely the responsibility of the individual, not their doctor.

Thank you for saying this. I'd love to invite people (in this case c1377) who level that criticism to sit in my professional shoes for a week. I can only hand out advice and give people the information. What they choose to DO with that information is up to them. Preventative medicine is insanely difficult as it is completely reliant on the patient making changes in their lifestyle. Those changes are often difficult and not fun.

People seek the path of least resistance. And although doctors can be criticized (rightly in many cases) for pushing pills as a solution, I wish I had a dollar for every patient who came to me and said something like, "Just give me a pill doc, I don't want to change my diet or drinking, but I will probably take a prescription med - as long as it doesn't have too many side effects." UGH! Look at the OP of this thread. He got advice from a doctor that he didn't like. He has excuses for not exercising, and refuses to cut back on the alcohol. So instead of sitting down and having a serious look at his behavior, he comes here seeking validation of his lifestyle from others. I see this EVERY DAY at work. At what point is his health no longer the responsibility of his doctor?

I can't be in your living room every night. I can only guide and advise regarding the risks and benefits of different behaviors. Ultimately, it's up to the individual to decide what is best for them. That's what I was trying to express in my first posts on this thread.

I'm going to largely bow out of this conversation at this point. If anyone has a specific question for me, I'll lurk about and try to answer it, but otherwise, I'll try to leave it be.

And for the record, the Thai hooker quoted me a higher price than my wife. About a 20% premium. We passed...