Beer and blood pressure/cholesterol meds - feedback appreciated

[stamandster]

I'll only tell you what worked for me to get my bad cholesterol down (not medical advice). My Tri's were high, 234, six months down to 174 (my HDL went up and my LDL went down but I don't remember what it's at). I cut out all meat (except for seafoods) and milk based products (cheese, milk, etc.). I eat soy based products, nuts, some fruit, mostly green vegetables (leafy ones, not sweet ones), almost no bread/pasta (unless rice). I don't have many sweets, if at all (not a huge fan anyways). I lost a little bit of weight but it was mostly my cholesterol that was affected (I don't exercise like I should). And actually my beer intake has gone up a couple more bottles a month. I don't take any meds and high cholesterol runs in my family (and my Czech roots).

 

[CBXBob]

I found this article in ScienceDaily to be interesting, and hopeful for my situation. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110502174231.htm?

 

[bigljd]

Did some research on red yeast rice - sounds like the US has stripped all the effective stuff from the over the counter pills. I wonder if big pharma had anything to do with that, since it could cut in on their profits if something over the counter works like their prescription stuff?

http://www.medicinenet.com/red_yeast_rice_and_cholesterol/article.htm

I'm on Lipator now, and would love a more natural alternative.

 

[BrettFitz]

- sounds like the US has stripped all the effective stuff from the over the counter pills

Huh... That's interesting. Not exactly encouraging tho.

I buy mine at a little herbal shop around the corner. The brand is "solaray," the owner did tell me that RYR has a lot of variability across brands. I bought his recommendation but to be honest didn't put much stock into his comment about brands because I figured even the little guy has profit bias. (I don't know why I took that negative stance - I buy my home brew supplies through a 'little guy' down the same street and trust his product advice without question. And beer is WAY more important than potentially life saving medicine!)

Anyhow, the bottle I'm looking at says "non-irradiated, citrinin-free, 600mg" and has a few sentences about the quality/purity/effectiveness. It's a little more expensive, comes to about a buck a day.

If the OP doesn't mind I will report in another 30 days on my own numbers (don't mean to hijack his thread). That will be 2 full months. Bear in mind, I've been exercising more and eating better but like I said I started out in pretty good shape. 6-2, 185. Since ramping up the exercise I've lost 4 pounds but I don't see that as any measure. I run 4-5 miles/day and/or do either a P90X workout or a crossfit-style workout 6 days a week. The seventh I kayak and fish or something else more leisure-like. I don't smoke. I adjusted my diet in the ways I suggested to the original OP, plus I forgot to mention dairy - a smidge of low-fat milk in my coffee and maybe a sprinkle of some kind of hard cheese on my egg-white omlet. Honestly, if this doesn't do something to my numbers, I don't know the next step. Move to Tibet and become a monk? Or at least Belgium so I can still brew...

 

[Rev2010]

If the OP doesn't mind I will report in another 30 days on my own numbers (don't mean to hijack his thread).

I don't mind at all! And you're not hijacking here, this thread was just meant to discuss this issue and what people have done or are doing. As I mentioned, my cholesterol appears to be of the genetic variety. Changing my diet, losing weight, taking plant stanol pills and Omega 3 made no difference. Well, it did... my overall cholesterol number went down, but I think that's mostly because my triglycerides went from 250 or something like that down to 70, which is ideal. My HDL stayed the same but somehow, and I have no idea how, my LDL went up close to 10 points And I didn't eat anything bad the night before or anything like that. It was rather disheartening I must say. Some nights I would just have a plain can of white tuna in water (drained). I switched to eating grilled salmon more often, cut out all fried foods and foods heavy in saturated fats etc. Only thing I can wonder is maybe the cholesterol boost came from my body burning my own fat since I was losing weight? I dunno. Anyhow, please do report back. A natural option is something I would always prefer if it's possible.


Rev.

 

[QsnotPs]

The first 2 things that come to mind are Hydrogenated Oils, and Vitamin K, make sure neither are in your diet. Hydrogenated oils are everywhere, so odds are your diet needs to be completely changed, if you need recipes let me know. Vitamin K is what the liver naturally produces, but for some reason it is in the cheaper vitamins for the past 8 or so years. It makes you drunk quick and nasty hangovers.

I would also suggest to not drink in excess, add oatmeal to your diet, even if it is the literal definition of add.

Best of Luck.

 

[Beer-lord]

I tried for years to keep my high cholesterol down...it was about 240 when I was 36 years old. I exercised, ate very well (seems like I ate cardboard all the time) but nothing made much of a difference and my doc told me it was hereditary and there's only so much that can be done short of exchanging DNA. So, I got on meds for it. No high BP thank goodness. But, he told me just to drink lite beer in moderation........NOT! I exercise 5 days a week but basically cardio and light weights. My numbers with meds are where they should be but I don't drink each day, maybe 2 nights a week and lightly.
But, I jam every now and then and slam some down but I compensate for that by more exercise the next day. Everyone is different and only you, with your doctors advice, can make the right decision.

 

[QsnotPs]

this whole cut sugars and eat real butter, meats, etc. is getting rid of hydrogenated oils.
Correlation vs. Causation

 

[QsnotPs]

and i refuse to believe that, my entire family has high BP, obese, etc. NOT ME, I eat right, I excersize, I'm 6'3" and still wear 36 waist jeans at 30 years of age, so never give in.

 

[Rev2010]

and i refuse to believe that, my entire family has high BP, obese, etc. NOT ME, I eat right, I excersize, I'm 6'3" and still wear 36 waist jeans at 30 years of age, so never give in.

I'm 38, 6' 2" and I still wear size 36 as well. I used to be even thinner though, many called it unhealthy skinny. I'm glad I'm not that slim anymore, I honestly do feel I look way better at a normal weight. But now I'm looking to get under 200 and I'm very close.

One thing I don't consume often is high fructose corn syrup. I don't drink soda, and I don't really eat swing things - which is interesting since as a kid I was crazy about candy and sugar. I figure since I drink beer frequently and it contains sugars that may be why I no longer care for sweets?, who knows.


Rev.

 

[gstrawn]

Straight from facts and comparisons, a popular drug facts resource for pharmacists. This is for simvastatin, a common entry level drug for high cholesterol. "simvastatin is contraindicated for heavy users of alcohol or history of liver disease." take that as you will, but my opinion is 4 beers isn't heavy. Hopefully that's concise and helpful

 

[Rev2010]

This is for simvastatin, a common entry level drug for high cholesterol. "simvastatin is contraindicated for heavy users of alcohol or history of liver disease."

Yeah pretty much ever statin drug I've seen advises against alcohol consumption since they work in the liver. There are some other cholesterol lowering drugs however that work in different ways rather than in the liver. Will have to speak with my doctor about those options.


Rev.

 

[cbmikey]

Straight from facts and comparisons, a popular drug facts resource for pharmacists. This is for simvastatin, a common entry level drug for high cholesterol. "simvastatin is contraindicated for heavy users of alcohol or history of liver disease." take that as you will, but my opinion is 4 beers isn't heavy. Hopefully that's concise and helpful

Again, this is just anecdotal evidence but my doctor told me that anything more than 20 beers a week (every day) is considered heavy. I don't consider that heavy either but when my doctor says it is, I believe her! I take Simvastatin (for chol) Lisinopril (for BP, plus it's a diuretic) and Allopurinol to reduce uric acid (gout). I can tell you that for the first 4-6 weeks I felt "funny" a lot. My heart would flutter and beat irregularly and I would often just have a weird fluttery-pressure-pain in my chest but my doc said that was somewhat normal and that it would go away after 4-6 weeks, which it did. Since then I no longer have those feelings but at first, it really sucked.

 

[scottab]

I don't mind at all! And you're not hijacking here, this thread was just meant to discuss this issue and what people have done or are doing. As I mentioned, my cholesterol appears to be of the genetic variety. Changing my diet, losing weight, taking plant stanol pills and Omega 3 made no difference. Well, it did... my overall cholesterol number went down, but I think that's mostly because my triglycerides went from 250 or something like that down to 70, which is ideal. My HDL stayed the same but somehow, and I have no idea how, my LDL went up close to 10 points And I didn't eat anything bad the night before or anything like that. It was rather disheartening I must say. Some nights I would just have a plain can of white tuna in water (drained). I switched to eating grilled salmon more often, cut out all fried foods and foods heavy in saturated fats etc. Only thing I can wonder is maybe the cholesterol boost came from my body burning my own fat since I was losing weight? I dunno. Anyhow, please do report back. A natural option is something I would always prefer if it's possible.

Rev.

Rev, if you were overweight to begin with, in the short term some numbers will rise, it takes the body time to adjust to a new diet. Best i can say is not to give up on the changes and see 3mos, 6mos and 9mos down the road what your numbers are like. Cholesterol problems may be genetic for you but you can;t tell anything in 1-3 mos about where your levels will be later.

 

[Rev2010]

Cholesterol problems may be genetic for you but you can;t tell anything in 1-3 mos about where your levels will be later.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. I don't recall if it was in this thread or if I read it somewhere else but somewhere I'd read you need to give it at least 3 months of positive change before you go and check for the results. Except for my recent one week vacation I've been sticking to the healthier diet and weight loss. My weight never went beyond 214 lbs, that is when I said it has to stop, so I've never been large by any degree but that number is still considered overweight by health/medical standards. Heck, even at my current 205 it's still considered overweight.

I'm going to keep at the natural method first for cholesterol and check back in a few months. I will however fill my blood pressure prescription and start on that. Thanks again.


Rev.

 

[scottab]

Heck, even at my current 205 it's still considered overweight.
Rev.

Book textbook weight for someone my height at 6' is 177lbs which would be extremely skinny for me.

 

[Rev2010]

textbook weight for someone my height at 6' is 177lbs which would be extremely skinny for me.

So true. I find a lot of the numbers are really a bit silly. I'd have to lose 10 lbs more to be at the maximum recommended weight for my age and height. Boy, I think if I lost 10 more pounds I'd be doing great, not in a situation where I would need to lose another 15lbs to be considered ideal. While I don't want to go as low as 180 my personal preference right now is between 185-190 but I would simply be happy to get under 200, which will happen soon.


Rev.

 

[krazydave]

Rev, you and I are in very similar boats.
I went to the dr about 3 months ago and had some blood tests done as I hadn't been the dr in years. (unemployed, lack of insurance, etc.).
I weighed in at 219 for that visit and am 6'3" tall also.
My total cholesterol came up from those tests at 293.
So, I've changed my diet entirely, I only eat fish and chicken, no eggs, light cheese (and very little of it) skim milk, whole grains, etc. I basically feel like I eat twigs and berries at this point!
So, in the past three months I've lost over 20lbs just from changing diet alone. "Great" I'm thinking!
Until I went to get my tests done last week for my dr visit on Monday.
My total cholesterol was up at 313 this time!
I just went back today for a second lipid panel since I have a hard time believing it.


However, I think there was something mentioned above that is true.
When you lose weight, your body burns its fat stores, which in fact increase your cholesterol until you level out.
So, I'm going on Monday and will be talking to the Dr. about this. I do drink... much like your habit of 3-4 a night. Sometimes more, sometimes less, sometimes none. Just depends.
I'll let you know what I find out, but in the meantime, think about the whole burning of the fat stores thing. It could just be that.

 

[Rev2010]

Krazydave - thanks so much for your post!! Of course it's not good to hear you having the same issue, but it gives me some hope and I hope the logic is correct. As mentioned, I'm going to keep at it and check again in a few months. Hopefully things will have changed. Please keep me up to date man ;-)


Rev.

 

[pabloj13]

Krazydave - thanks so much for your post!! Of course it's not good to hear you having the same issue, but it gives me some hope and I hope the logic is correct. As mentioned, I'm going to keep at it and check again in a few months. Hopefully things will have changed. Please keep me up to date man ;-)


Rev.

Yeah, no. That logic is not correct. I'm sorry if the advice given in this thread by evrose rubs you the wrong way, but it's good advice. Most drugs, especially those that function and/or are metabolized in the liver list drinking as a no-no. Some of them they're just being overly cautious. Some of them they are not screwing around. The problem is that the US public does not want to hear what they are being told. Don't take Tylenol or statins with alcohol? Psssh, what do those people know anyway? Take 1-2 every 6 hours? Well, I am in a lot of pain so I'll take 6.

What you're doing is bad for you. Potentially very bad. If you don't care still, then more power to you. Just don't try to sue someone when your liver shuts down.

 

[Rev2010]

Krazydave - I just did a quick Google search and the second result was this link that seems to say yes and gives a reason why. However, it's kind of hard to say for sure though since they say it first drops, then raises:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/500114-can-losing-weight-raise-your-cholesterol-temporarily/

Specifically quoted from the article:

"Weight Loss Study

Weight loss can cause a temporary increase in your serum cholesterol levels during the weight loss process, according to "The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition." AJCN notes a study in 1991 during which six obese women, their cholesterol levels and body composition are all taken into consideration. The study shows an initial decline in cholesterol levels, followed by a rise during continued weight loss. Levels declined again once study participants entered weight maintenance.
The Explanation

AJCN offers an explanation for the temporary increase in serum, blood, cholesterol levels with weight loss. Your body has adipose fat stores. The adipose stores begin mobilizing as you lose weight, moving into the blood. This is a possible cause for a late rise in serum cholesterol levels with major weight loss, explains AJCN. As your weight loss stops, so too does the rise in cholesterol levels."

So, it's still a "who knows?" at this point. Again though, this was just a quick search just now. I'm sure poking around the net can lend more info but I'm going to wait and see how things pan out after sticking to my changes for a while.


Rev.

 

[Rev2010]

I'm sorry if the advice given in this thread by evrose rubs you the wrong way, but it's good advice.

Please tell me where I was opposed to his advice. I was never opposed to his advice, just his attitude about posting asking for people's experiences on the matter here. Matter of fact, I already stated in my initial post and several thereafter that cholesterol drugs that work in the liver (statins) are bad to drink while on. Where did I say otherwise?

Most drugs, especially those that function and/or are metabolized in the liver list drinking as a no-no. Some of them they're just being overly cautious. Some of them they are not screwing around.

Yes, I know... I've said that several times already. No argument there.

The problem is that the US public does not want to hear what they are being told.

Nowhere did I say I disagree with the dangers of taking these meds while drinking. Matter of fact, I said my doctor said it was ok in moderation but that the pharmacological info says otherwise and I drink more than moderately. I'm looking for other possible options, maybe like Cholesterol pills that don't work in the liver, of which there are a number.

Don't take Tylenol or statins with alcohol? Psssh, what do those people know anyway?

I know very well how dangerous acetaminophen is to take while drinking or shortly after. I never take it ever.

What you're doing is bad for you. Potentially very bad. If you don't care still, then more power to you. Just don't try to sue someone when your liver shuts down.

Again, for one, I am not currently on any meds. For two, I know drinking at my level is bad for me... so is 98% of everything enjoyable in life.

It still baffles me how people misread things so dramatically.


Rev.

 

[pabloj13]

For two, I know drinking at my level is bad for me... so is 98% of everything enjoyable in life.

It still baffles me how people misread things so dramatically.


Rev.

Maybe you don't have to come right out and say you disagree with those things when, instead of taking the advice of your Dr., the Dr. on here, the FDA, me, etc., you look for other people's anecdotal evidence to the contrary which means as little as "my grandpa smoked 3 packs a day and lived to be 85*".


* True story, and equally meaningless to other people's anecdotal stories.

 

[Rev2010]

Maybe you don't have to come right out and say you disagree with those things when, instead of taking the advice of your Dr., the Dr. on here, the FDA, me, etc.

Again, what advice?? My doctor said being on these medications and drinking is fine so long as it's in moderation. My first post specifically said, "He shrugged it off saying it's ok and Losartan is well tested and tolerated. He also said it's ok so long as one drinks in moderation (in reference to the cholesterol meds). - However, I looked up Cholesterol meds and almost all seem to say drinking is very bad as the drugs work in the liver and drinking while on them can damage the liver."

That seems to say that the doctor is saying to me, "Sure a few beers a night is ok" but the drug data says to avoid alcohol completely.

If I were of the mindset you believe me to be I would simply say, "Oh the doctor said it's fine, I only drink a few beers so I'm safe". But I never said that. I admitted right out in the open that I drink more than the medical fields "2 12oz beers a day are ok". As a result I am curious of the options.

Sure I plan to speak to my doctor about this. I already said several times that I do not plan to take any feedback here as "superseding doctor/pharmacological information". Why is it so bad to speak with others on this? I would never take a few posts over scientific medical data. However, there may be some who have been in my position already and have come up with safer options from their doctors that may provide me with some extra info to bring to my doctor and discuss.


Rev.

 

[pabloj13]

Again, what advice?? My doctor said being on these medications and drinking is fine so long as it's in moderation. My first post specifically said, "He shrugged it off saying it's ok and Losartan is well tested and tolerated. He also said it's ok so long as one drinks in moderation (in reference to the cholesterol meds). - However, I looked up Cholesterol meds and almost all seem to say drinking is very bad as the drugs work in the liver and drinking while on them can damage the liver."

That seems to say that the doctor is saying to me, "Sure a few beers a night is ok" but the drug data says to avoid alcohol completely.

If I were of the mindset you believe me to be I would simply say, "Oh the doctor said it's fine, I only drink a few beers so I'm safe". But I never said that. I admitted right out in the open that I drink more than the medical fields "2 12oz beers a day are ok". As a result I am curious of the options.

Sure I plan to speak to my doctor about this. I already said several times that I do not plan to take any feedback here as "superseding doctor/pharmacological information". Why is it so bad to speak with others on this? I would never take a few posts over scientific medical data. However, there may be some who have been in my position already and have come up with safer options from their doctors that may provide me with some extra info to bring to my doctor and discuss.


Rev.

Right. He told you to do one thing, and you are doing another. Zero people are going to come in here with relevant other "options". The other cholesterol medications that are referred to earlier in this thread affect dietary cholesterol uptake. You seem to have mostly addressed that (although chicken still has significant cholesterol). The statins are your most efficacious route to lower your cholesterol. You have a few choices

1. Lower alcohol and keep taking your cholesterol meds - good
2. Keep drinking and taking your cholesterol meds- potentially severly damaging to your liver
3. Keep drinking and stop taking your cholesterol meds - bad choice

 

[CBXBob]

Maybe you don't have to come right out and say you disagree with those things when, instead of taking the advice of your Dr., the Dr. on here, the FDA, me, etc., you look for other people's anecdotal evidence to the contrary which means as little as "my grandpa smoked 3 packs a day and lived to be 85*".


* True story, and equally meaningless to other people's anecdotal stories.

It doesn't seem to me he disagrees with anyone's advice, or is looking for anyone' s anecdotal evidence. He is asking "What is your experience?"
How about we don't pontificate, or prejudge what OP is looking for. If you have experience with blood pressure/ cholesterol meds, and enjoy drinking tell him your experience. Everyone else could kindly STFU. And while I use no meds, I will do the same.

 

[pabloj13]

It doesn't seem to me he ...is looking for anyone' s anecdotal evidence. He is asking "What is your experience?"

 

[krazydave]

I think its just the nature of a public forum. There are always those that want to debate and will always deny that they are.
The OP was asking for experiences from others in the same boat. Not saying that he wants a legit reason to ignore his dr.
I too will likely be in the same boat with cholesterol meds com Monday. So I definitely understand what he's asking. If I need to slow down on the drinking, I get it.
There's nothing wrong with asking for opinions though. He wasn't asking for a "you'll die if you don't stop" preacher. I'm sure that's already a possibility in his mind.

 

[pabloj13]

I think its just the nature of a public forum. There are always those that want to debate and will always deny that they are.
The OP was asking for experiences from others in the same boat. Not saying that he wants a legit reason to ignore his dr.
I too will likely be in the same boat with cholesterol meds com Monday. So I definitely understand what he's asking. If I need to slow down on the drinking, I get it.
There's nothing wrong with asking for opinions though. He wasn't asking for a "you'll die if you don't stop preacher". I'm sure that's already a possibility in his mind.

<sigh> Well if he wants untrained people's opinions, carry on.

 

[CBXBob]

If this is the wrong place to post Mods please move - I didn't know where else to post this.
- I am not meaning any info provided to be of advice that supersedes doctor/pharmacological information. I am merely looking for real world beer drinkers that unfortunately have to take these medications and their experiences with them. Thank you!


Rev.

There it is. Simple as s**t. Read it again, don't get it? I do.

 

[pabloj13]

There it is. Simple as s**t. Read it again, don't get it? I do.

Holy lord. I do get it. My grandpa was a real world smoker. He lived to 85 and was just fine! No cancer!! Smoke away.

 

[Rev2010]

<sigh> Well if he wants untrained people's opinions, carry on.

Does everyone on here brew as a profession? No, yet people still post to get others experiences. Not to mention professional medical findings and opinions are always changing. Perfect example, I was told by my last doctor to take a baby aspirin daily which I'd been doing. Just 3 weeks ago new medical info came out from studies saying NOT to take them unless you've already had a heart attack or stroke due to the possibility of bleeding risks, including in the brain which could lead to stroke in the first place.


Rev.

 

[Toecutter]

Knowledge is power and there is plenty of it out there. Read, Read, Read, and study. Look at your blood test results and understand what the different results mean. I have kept a running spreadsheet for over 10 years. I am fat and take Lisnopril for blood pressure. But hereditarily my family does not have high cholesterol so I am very lucky. Mine routinely runs about 130-140, and I also watch my ALT and AST numbers, those will tell you how your livers doing. My family has a history of being overweight, so I know and except the risks. But I try to balance those risks by working out at the gym 3 times a week, lifting weights and swimming. I take lots of supplements with solid scientific studies done on them. fish oil, COq10, Resveratrol, etc. And i drink about 2 Homebrews a night , mostly my amber ale or my Belgian wheat. The liver is a very forgiving organ, it can take a lot of abuse (I know I will get flamed for this comment). Hell It's Cancer I worry about.

 

[pabloj13]

Does everyone on here brew as a profession? No, yet people still post to get others experiences. Not to mention professional medical findings and opinions are always changing. Perfect example, I was told by my last doctor to take a baby aspirin daily which I'd been doing. Just 3 weeks ago new medical info came out from studies saying NOT to take them unless you've already had a heart attack or stroke due to the possibility of bleeding risks, including in the brain which could lead to stroke in the first place.


Rev.

I'd love to see that study.

 

[Rev2010]

I'd love to see that study.

It was on the news, I didn't read it online but you can use the Googles and I'm sure if you sort by most recent you will find it. I'm on my cell at the moment chilling with the wife.


Rev.

 

[evrose]

Holy lord. I do get it. My grandpa was a real world smoker. He lived to 85 and was just fine! No cancer!! Smoke away.

And... this is exactly why I said these threads are a bad idea...

~sigh~

 

[Rev2010]

And... this is exactly why I said these threads are a bad idea...

~sigh~

You've said your piece and made your points, why not move along now? Continuing to post in a thread you consider pointless just to argue is bordering on trolling.


Rev.

 

[CBXBob]

I believe there are no bad "ideas", but bad conclusions, intentions, advice, intelligence. Yeah, that happens. sigh.

 

[evrose]

You've said your piece and made your points, why not move along now? Continuing to post in a thread you consider pointless just to argue is bordering on trolling.


Rev.

I don't remember asking you for permission to post here.

And I never said it was pointless. I said it was dangerous. Those aren't exactly the same thing.

 

[Rev2010]

I don't remember asking you for permission to post here.