Beer and blood pressure/cholesterol meds - feedback appreciated

[Rev2010]

Krazydave - I just did a quick Google search and the second result was this link that seems to say yes and gives a reason why. However, it's kind of hard to say for sure though since they say it first drops, then raises:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/500114-can-losing-weight-raise-your-cholesterol-temporarily/

Specifically quoted from the article:

"Weight Loss Study

Weight loss can cause a temporary increase in your serum cholesterol levels during the weight loss process, according to "The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition." AJCN notes a study in 1991 during which six obese women, their cholesterol levels and body composition are all taken into consideration. The study shows an initial decline in cholesterol levels, followed by a rise during continued weight loss. Levels declined again once study participants entered weight maintenance.
The Explanation

AJCN offers an explanation for the temporary increase in serum, blood, cholesterol levels with weight loss. Your body has adipose fat stores. The adipose stores begin mobilizing as you lose weight, moving into the blood. This is a possible cause for a late rise in serum cholesterol levels with major weight loss, explains AJCN. As your weight loss stops, so too does the rise in cholesterol levels."

So, it's still a "who knows?" at this point. Again though, this was just a quick search just now. I'm sure poking around the net can lend more info but I'm going to wait and see how things pan out after sticking to my changes for a while.


Rev.

 

[Rev2010]

I'm sorry if the advice given in this thread by evrose rubs you the wrong way, but it's good advice.

Please tell me where I was opposed to his advice. I was never opposed to his advice, just his attitude about posting asking for people's experiences on the matter here. Matter of fact, I already stated in my initial post and several thereafter that cholesterol drugs that work in the liver (statins) are bad to drink while on. Where did I say otherwise?

Most drugs, especially those that function and/or are metabolized in the liver list drinking as a no-no. Some of them they're just being overly cautious. Some of them they are not screwing around.

Yes, I know... I've said that several times already. No argument there.

The problem is that the US public does not want to hear what they are being told.

Nowhere did I say I disagree with the dangers of taking these meds while drinking. Matter of fact, I said my doctor said it was ok in moderation but that the pharmacological info says otherwise and I drink more than moderately. I'm looking for other possible options, maybe like Cholesterol pills that don't work in the liver, of which there are a number.

Don't take Tylenol or statins with alcohol? Psssh, what do those people know anyway?

I know very well how dangerous acetaminophen is to take while drinking or shortly after. I never take it ever.

What you're doing is bad for you. Potentially very bad. If you don't care still, then more power to you. Just don't try to sue someone when your liver shuts down.

Again, for one, I am not currently on any meds. For two, I know drinking at my level is bad for me... so is 98% of everything enjoyable in life.

It still baffles me how people misread things so dramatically.


Rev.

 

[pabloj13]

For two, I know drinking at my level is bad for me... so is 98% of everything enjoyable in life.

It still baffles me how people misread things so dramatically.


Rev.

Maybe you don't have to come right out and say you disagree with those things when, instead of taking the advice of your Dr., the Dr. on here, the FDA, me, etc., you look for other people's anecdotal evidence to the contrary which means as little as "my grandpa smoked 3 packs a day and lived to be 85*".


* True story, and equally meaningless to other people's anecdotal stories.

 

[Rev2010]

Maybe you don't have to come right out and say you disagree with those things when, instead of taking the advice of your Dr., the Dr. on here, the FDA, me, etc.

Again, what advice?? My doctor said being on these medications and drinking is fine so long as it's in moderation. My first post specifically said, "He shrugged it off saying it's ok and Losartan is well tested and tolerated. He also said it's ok so long as one drinks in moderation (in reference to the cholesterol meds). - However, I looked up Cholesterol meds and almost all seem to say drinking is very bad as the drugs work in the liver and drinking while on them can damage the liver."

That seems to say that the doctor is saying to me, "Sure a few beers a night is ok" but the drug data says to avoid alcohol completely.

If I were of the mindset you believe me to be I would simply say, "Oh the doctor said it's fine, I only drink a few beers so I'm safe". But I never said that. I admitted right out in the open that I drink more than the medical fields "2 12oz beers a day are ok". As a result I am curious of the options.

Sure I plan to speak to my doctor about this. I already said several times that I do not plan to take any feedback here as "superseding doctor/pharmacological information". Why is it so bad to speak with others on this? I would never take a few posts over scientific medical data. However, there may be some who have been in my position already and have come up with safer options from their doctors that may provide me with some extra info to bring to my doctor and discuss.


Rev.

 

[pabloj13]

Again, what advice?? My doctor said being on these medications and drinking is fine so long as it's in moderation. My first post specifically said, "He shrugged it off saying it's ok and Losartan is well tested and tolerated. He also said it's ok so long as one drinks in moderation (in reference to the cholesterol meds). - However, I looked up Cholesterol meds and almost all seem to say drinking is very bad as the drugs work in the liver and drinking while on them can damage the liver."

That seems to say that the doctor is saying to me, "Sure a few beers a night is ok" but the drug data says to avoid alcohol completely.

If I were of the mindset you believe me to be I would simply say, "Oh the doctor said it's fine, I only drink a few beers so I'm safe". But I never said that. I admitted right out in the open that I drink more than the medical fields "2 12oz beers a day are ok". As a result I am curious of the options.

Sure I plan to speak to my doctor about this. I already said several times that I do not plan to take any feedback here as "superseding doctor/pharmacological information". Why is it so bad to speak with others on this? I would never take a few posts over scientific medical data. However, there may be some who have been in my position already and have come up with safer options from their doctors that may provide me with some extra info to bring to my doctor and discuss.


Rev.

Right. He told you to do one thing, and you are doing another. Zero people are going to come in here with relevant other "options". The other cholesterol medications that are referred to earlier in this thread affect dietary cholesterol uptake. You seem to have mostly addressed that (although chicken still has significant cholesterol). The statins are your most efficacious route to lower your cholesterol. You have a few choices

1. Lower alcohol and keep taking your cholesterol meds - good
2. Keep drinking and taking your cholesterol meds- potentially severly damaging to your liver
3. Keep drinking and stop taking your cholesterol meds - bad choice

 

[CBXBob]

Maybe you don't have to come right out and say you disagree with those things when, instead of taking the advice of your Dr., the Dr. on here, the FDA, me, etc., you look for other people's anecdotal evidence to the contrary which means as little as "my grandpa smoked 3 packs a day and lived to be 85*".


* True story, and equally meaningless to other people's anecdotal stories.

It doesn't seem to me he disagrees with anyone's advice, or is looking for anyone' s anecdotal evidence. He is asking "What is your experience?"
How about we don't pontificate, or prejudge what OP is looking for. If you have experience with blood pressure/ cholesterol meds, and enjoy drinking tell him your experience. Everyone else could kindly STFU. And while I use no meds, I will do the same.

 

[pabloj13]

It doesn't seem to me he ...is looking for anyone' s anecdotal evidence. He is asking "What is your experience?"

 

[krazydave]

I think its just the nature of a public forum. There are always those that want to debate and will always deny that they are.
The OP was asking for experiences from others in the same boat. Not saying that he wants a legit reason to ignore his dr.
I too will likely be in the same boat with cholesterol meds com Monday. So I definitely understand what he's asking. If I need to slow down on the drinking, I get it.
There's nothing wrong with asking for opinions though. He wasn't asking for a "you'll die if you don't stop" preacher. I'm sure that's already a possibility in his mind.

 

[pabloj13]

I think its just the nature of a public forum. There are always those that want to debate and will always deny that they are.
The OP was asking for experiences from others in the same boat. Not saying that he wants a legit reason to ignore his dr.
I too will likely be in the same boat with cholesterol meds com Monday. So I definitely understand what he's asking. If I need to slow down on the drinking, I get it.
There's nothing wrong with asking for opinions though. He wasn't asking for a "you'll die if you don't stop preacher". I'm sure that's already a possibility in his mind.

<sigh> Well if he wants untrained people's opinions, carry on.

 

[CBXBob]

If this is the wrong place to post Mods please move - I didn't know where else to post this.
- I am not meaning any info provided to be of advice that supersedes doctor/pharmacological information. I am merely looking for real world beer drinkers that unfortunately have to take these medications and their experiences with them. Thank you!


Rev.

There it is. Simple as s**t. Read it again, don't get it? I do.

 

[pabloj13]

There it is. Simple as s**t. Read it again, don't get it? I do.

Holy lord. I do get it. My grandpa was a real world smoker. He lived to 85 and was just fine! No cancer!! Smoke away.

 

[Rev2010]

<sigh> Well if he wants untrained people's opinions, carry on.

Does everyone on here brew as a profession? No, yet people still post to get others experiences. Not to mention professional medical findings and opinions are always changing. Perfect example, I was told by my last doctor to take a baby aspirin daily which I'd been doing. Just 3 weeks ago new medical info came out from studies saying NOT to take them unless you've already had a heart attack or stroke due to the possibility of bleeding risks, including in the brain which could lead to stroke in the first place.


Rev.

 

[Toecutter]

Knowledge is power and there is plenty of it out there. Read, Read, Read, and study. Look at your blood test results and understand what the different results mean. I have kept a running spreadsheet for over 10 years. I am fat and take Lisnopril for blood pressure. But hereditarily my family does not have high cholesterol so I am very lucky. Mine routinely runs about 130-140, and I also watch my ALT and AST numbers, those will tell you how your livers doing. My family has a history of being overweight, so I know and except the risks. But I try to balance those risks by working out at the gym 3 times a week, lifting weights and swimming. I take lots of supplements with solid scientific studies done on them. fish oil, COq10, Resveratrol, etc. And i drink about 2 Homebrews a night , mostly my amber ale or my Belgian wheat. The liver is a very forgiving organ, it can take a lot of abuse (I know I will get flamed for this comment). Hell It's Cancer I worry about.

 

[pabloj13]

Does everyone on here brew as a profession? No, yet people still post to get others experiences. Not to mention professional medical findings and opinions are always changing. Perfect example, I was told by my last doctor to take a baby aspirin daily which I'd been doing. Just 3 weeks ago new medical info came out from studies saying NOT to take them unless you've already had a heart attack or stroke due to the possibility of bleeding risks, including in the brain which could lead to stroke in the first place.


Rev.

I'd love to see that study.

 

[Rev2010]

I'd love to see that study.

It was on the news, I didn't read it online but you can use the Googles and I'm sure if you sort by most recent you will find it. I'm on my cell at the moment chilling with the wife.


Rev.

 

[evrose]

Holy lord. I do get it. My grandpa was a real world smoker. He lived to 85 and was just fine! No cancer!! Smoke away.

And... this is exactly why I said these threads are a bad idea...

~sigh~

 

[Rev2010]

And... this is exactly why I said these threads are a bad idea...

~sigh~

You've said your piece and made your points, why not move along now? Continuing to post in a thread you consider pointless just to argue is bordering on trolling.


Rev.

 

[CBXBob]

I believe there are no bad "ideas", but bad conclusions, intentions, advice, intelligence. Yeah, that happens. sigh.

 

[evrose]

You've said your piece and made your points, why not move along now? Continuing to post in a thread you consider pointless just to argue is bordering on trolling.


Rev.

I don't remember asking you for permission to post here.

And I never said it was pointless. I said it was dangerous. Those aren't exactly the same thing.

 

[Rev2010]

I don't remember asking you for permission to post here.

 

[krazydave]

lol
Apparently there's another thing to add to the list of items not to discuss in a public forum. Cholesterol and beer consumption...
Gather that with politics, religion, and on this forum, the legal acquisition of sankey kegs

 

[Rev2010]

lol
Apparently there's another thing to add to the list of items not to discuss in a public forum. Cholesterol and beer consumption...
Gather that with politics, religion, and on this forum, the legal acquisition of sankey kegs

Tell me about it. Some people have nothing better to do than object it seems.


Rev.

 

[krazydave]

Here's something to ponder... I just got my lab results in from the test this morning. My total cholesterol is at 278 this time (should be less that 200, ideally).
Now, I had a bad week and ate nachos and tacos (amongst a heavy amount of homebrew).
That's a pretty good change in a weeks time, especially considering I drank 3 pints of DIPA the night before.


I guess I'll just have to wait until I see the doctor on Monday and see what he says. I'm baffled at this point.

 

[Rocky71]

Rev this is sort of on and off topic but this is as good a place to post it as any. I'm a Veteran and I go to the VA for medical treatments. They consider the following (you can verify it on their website). I did a cut and paste from their website.

Binge drinking is having:
More than 3 drinks on one occasion for women and adults over age 65.
More than 4 drinks on one occasion for men.

Honestly I about busted out laughing ^ when a friend told me about it. If you are a Veteran and the VA knows you have drank more then 4 beers in the same day they want to send you for treatment. This guidance says same occasion but the docs go by same day. It's a question they ask every veteran every visit. Can you imagine how many people they would try to send for treatment at a beer fest?

I have high cholesterol, more than you can get from a bad diet, so I just started taking meds. I guess I'll know in 6 months if they work along with my diet changes. But I was not warned about limiting alcohol at all.

 

[QsnotPs]

Total cholesterol does not indicate anything IGNORE THIS Total is a sum of HDL and LDL
If your doctor argues with this get a new doctor, hell, have him contact me, I'll put him in his place.
your LDL is what you need to be concerned with. If your LDL is high, then your cholesterol is more than likely exploding in your boold system at your heart. If your LDL is low, you are extremely healthy. HDL carries refuse away from the cells, these in excess is not a problem. The problem is when LDL cholesterol shows up at a cell's doorstep with a pizza, opens the box and it's filled with crisco. The cell says you can take that crap somewhere else. Well this / these cell(s) float around in the blood until too many of them start colliding, and exploding. This happens at the heart. These cross sections of arteries, veins with cholesterol, are not totally cholesterol, they're hydrogenated oils.
Beer does not cause high cholesterol, actually EVERY study done relating health to beer shows the person who drinks 2 beers daily is the healthiest person. The assumption as to why the myth "beer drinkers are unhealthy" exists is because beer drinkers eat unhealthily, therefore correlation vs. causation.
You all spend countless hours educating yourself on the making of beer, do some research on the ingredients list of the food you eat.

 

[pabloj13]

Total cholesterol does not indicate anything IGNORE THIS Total is a sum of HDL and LDL
If your doctor argues with this get a new doctor, hell, have him contact me, I'll put him in his place.
your LDL is what you need to be concerned with. If your LDL is high, then your cholesterol is more than likely exploding in your boold system at your heart. If your LDL is low, you are extremely healthy. HDL carries refuse away from the cells, these in excess is not a problem. The problem is when LDL cholesterol shows up at a cell's doorstep with a pizza, opens the box and it's filled with crisco. The cell says you can take that crap somewhere else. Well this / these cell(s) float around in the blood until too many of them start colliding, and exploding. This happens at the heart. These cross sections of arteries, veins with cholesterol, are not totally cholesterol, they're hydrogenated oils.
Beer does not cause high cholesterol, actually EVERY study done relating health to beer shows the person who drinks 2 beers daily is the healthiest person. The assumption as to why the myth "beer drinkers are unhealthy" exists is because beer drinkers eat unhealthily, therefore correlation vs. causation.
You all spend countless hours educating yourself on the making of beer, do some research on the ingredients list of the food you eat.

Ugh. What exactly are you basing the first part off of? While the ratio may be a better predictor, that does not mean total cholesterol is a scam.

 

[evrose]

Total cholesterol does not indicate anything IGNORE THIS Total is a sum of HDL and LDL
If your doctor argues with this get a new doctor, hell, have him contact me, I'll put him in his place.
your LDL is what you need to be concerned with. If your LDL is high, then your cholesterol is more than likely exploding in your boold system at your heart. If your LDL is low, you are extremely healthy. HDL carries refuse away from the cells, these in excess is not a problem.

Actually, it's a lot more complicated than that.

HDL doesn't "carry refuse". It functions by a mechanism called reverse cholesterol transport where it takes peripheral cholesterol and returns it to the liver. The liver then uses it to synthesize cell membranes and other essential hormones. Cholesterol is a vital precursor to a myriad of different endogenous hormones.

While total cholesterol is rarely used by doctors as an indicator of anything, current cholesterol panels don't stop at just LDL vs. HDL. For example, there are sub-categories of LDL, with small dense LDL (sdLDL) being the most associated with cardiovascular risk and plaque formation. New research is pointing to different sub-types of HDL as well. Even crazier are the EPIC and IDEAL studies (long-term prospective research protocols that look at large populations over time) which are showing INCREASED risk of cardiovascular disease associated with elevated HDL levels. This is likely because not all HDL is equal. More needs to be discovered before we have a better picture of what's really happening.

Doctors are well beyond simply saying "if your LDL is low, you are extremely healthy". Nope.

Also, this may be nit-picking, but plaque formation isn't limited to your heart. It can take place anywhere in the body, most commonly in larger, high-pressure vessels. However, it is most noticeable when pieces break off and lodge in small, end arteries. The coronary arteries are the most infamous because there is little collateral circulation. If the LAD (a major coronary artery feeding the left ventricle, often called The Widowmaker) gets jammed up, you're dead. There's nowhere else for the blood to come from. Most other muscles in the body get blood from multiple small arteries. An ischemic stroke is another example of a plaque blocking blood flow to a vital organ (in this case, the brain). (There are other causes of ischemic stroke, plaque rupture is just one.)

Then there's the issue of triglycerides, which are actually the most susceptible to dietary changes. Oh, and I almost forgot to mention VLDL and IDL, both of which are associated with cardiovascular risk.

Anyhow, I'm rambling, and I'm sure you know all of this, considering you can put doctors in their place.

Cheers,

Erich R., MD

 

[Rev2010]

Erich R., MD

Hi Erich. Do you have an online medical profile you can share? I looked up your name and simply can't find a single reference to your professional medical profile, a quite common thing available these days, only your blog. Each and every one of my doctors are locatable by name with a simple Google search, even my current doctor. I've tried Erich Rose and several variants but can't seem to locate any doctors with even your first name. Not doubting you at all, just would be great if you could provide a link your medical background. Thanks


Rev.

 

[pabloj13]

Hi Erich. Do you have an online medical profile you can share? I looked up your name and simply can't find a single reference to your professional medical profile, a quite common thing available these days, only your blog. Each and every one of my doctors are locatable by name with a simple Google search, even my current doctor. I've tried Erich Rose and several variants but can't seem to locate any doctors with even your first name. Not doubting you at all, just would be great if you could provide a link your medical background. Thanks


Rev.

Regardless, I'm not sure what difference it makes. He's not wrong.

 

[Rev2010]

Regardless, I'm not sure what difference it makes. He's not wrong.

I know he's not wrong with what he just said, But, I would prefer to be sure an actual doctor is talking when one signs "MD" and can't be found on any medical profession listing. For all I know he might be a Med student claiming to be a doctor.


Rev.