Bayou classic steamer baskets

[petrolSpice]

I've done 5 BIAB batches and consistently get 65-70% mash efficiency doing full volume mash, squeezing the bag, and stirring every 15 mins. I use a Bayou Classic 44qt pot.

To improve my efficiency I'm thinking of using the Bayou Classic steamer basket insert. I'll put the bag in the basket and both into the water to mash. Then lift out the basket and pour sparge water through the grains. Seems like this would work well.

My question is, can the steamer basket be left in the pot during the mash? Does the top still fit with it in there?

If I go this route, how should I split the water volume between mash and sparge? I do 5.5gal batches so my sparge is typically 7.5 gallons, any anywhere from 10-18lb of grain.

 

[enkamania]

I have a 60 qt pot and it has a lip for the basket. I would ask if your model will work with a steamer basket.

 

[cannman]

I've done 5 BIAB batches and consistently get 65-70% mash efficiency doing full volume mash, squeezing the bag, and stirring every 15 mins. I use a Bayou Classic 44qt pot.

To improve my efficiency I'm thinking of using the Bayou Classic steamer basket insert. I'll put the bag in the basket and both into the water to mash. Then lift out the basket and pour sparge water through the grains. Seems like this would work well.

My question is, can the steamer basket be left in the pot during the mash? Does the top still fit with it in there?

If I go this route, how should I split the water volume between mash and sparge? I do 5.5gal batches so my sparge is typically 7.5 gallons, any anywhere from 10-18lb of grain.

There's nothing wrong with that efficiency. Stop trying to fix what ain't broke. It's not necessarily going to make your beer taste better infact it might taste off. 100% can only be achieved in the lab and it makes TERRIBLE beer. Stick with what you have going on, don't change your process if you enjoy the quality of your beer.

But back to your questions, if you stick with BIAB, see about the false bottoms they make for Bayou Classic. I have the 14 gallon pot (maybe its bigger, but something like that) and it has a steamer basket that sits on the bottom with legs. I BIAB about 80-90% of the water and rinse the grains with the other 20% after mash is over. There's a big "no squeeze your bag" thread here somewhere. Check it out

 

[RM-MN]

I've done 5 BIAB batches and consistently get 65-70% mash efficiency doing full volume mash, squeezing the bag, and stirring every 15 mins. I use a Bayou Classic 44qt pot.

To improve my efficiency I'm thinking of using the Bayou Classic steamer basket insert. I'll put the bag in the basket and both into the water to mash. Then lift out the basket and pour sparge water through the grains. Seems like this would work well.

My question is, can the steamer basket be left in the pot during the mash? Does the top still fit with it in there?

If I go this route, how should I split the water volume between mash and sparge? I do 5.5gal batches so my sparge is typically 7.5 gallons, any anywhere from 10-18lb of grain.

Increases in efficiency come from finer crush and adding a sparge, not different equipment purchases. Adding the steamer basket may make your efficiency go down if there is a significant amount of water outside the basket.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I BIAB with the basket every brew.
My setup:
Basket rests on a false bottom to keep it over the element(cheap pizza rack works too)
Bag gets cloths pinned to the basket rim
At end of mash I hoist basket,let drain,sparge to pre boil levels,squish with pot lid to get the juices out.
I like having the bag open through out the mash for stirring,sparging directly over the grain and sqishing...Lots say none of that matters and a closed bag throughout gives the same results but my way works for me.
The lid does not fit with the false bottom on my setup.If the false bottom you choose is a little lower it might fit.My basket rim is over the pot rim by about 3/4" of an inch and my false bottom is around 2 1/2" tall.
Also if you recirculate it doesn't work this way.Between the grain,bag and basket the water will fill the bag faster than it drains through and will overflow

 

[TexasWine]

I've done 5 BIAB batches and consistently get 65-70% mash efficiency doing full volume mash, squeezing the bag, and stirring every 15 mins. I use a Bayou Classic 44qt pot.

To improve my efficiency I'm thinking of using the Bayou Classic steamer basket insert. I'll put the bag in the basket and both into the water to mash. Then lift out the basket and pour sparge water through the grains. Seems like this would work well.

My question is, can the steamer basket be left in the pot during the mash? Does the top still fit with it in there?

If I go this route, how should I split the water volume between mash and sparge? I do 5.5gal batches so my sparge is typically 7.5 gallons, any anywhere from 10-18lb of grain.

I am assuming your Bayou Classic kettle is like every other Bayou Classic I've seen in that it has a ridge for the steamer basket. If so, yes your lid will still fit on the kettle with the steamer basket in place.

However, I would not recommend using the steamer basket unless you are applying heat during the mash and are afraid of burning your bag. Instead, if you want to introduce a sparge, either slowly pour the water directly onto the bag, or do a dunk sparge in another container (a bucket will work for this).

I've done almost every variation of BIAB sparging you can dream up. The dunk sparge got me the most consistent results.

Concerning volumes, I used to always shoot for 6.5 gallons of water in the mash and the remainder was for sparge.

 

[griffi]

I have an 11 gal BC kettle with an element and it has the ridge and basket. I need to use the basket every time to avoid the bag touching the element. I also have a 10 gal BC kettle with a false bottom. Although the kettles are the same diameter I can't get the fb into the 11 gal kettle because the ridge stops it. To answer OP question, yes the lid fits, and I recirc through the lid - it seems to work fine

 

[cannman]

Increases in efficiency come from finer crush and adding a sparge, not different equipment purchases. Adding the steamer basket may make your efficiency go down if there is a significant amount of water outside the basket.

Also good to mention that finer crush also equals higher astringency, and if OP wants to be a competition brewer, it's something to consider (I've hit 39/50 BJCP using a Victoria style grinder, so, the little things)

 

[TexasWine]

Also good to mention that finer crush also equals higher astringency, and if OP wants to be a competition brewer, it's something to consider (I've hit 39/50 BJCP using a Victoria style grinder, so, the little things)

Not buying this. Astringency comes from tannins, which is a result of high pH and high temp. Can you point us to something, like a study or paper, that would indicate finer crush equals astringency?

 

[petrolSpice]

Thanks everyone for the replies!

To clarify, the ONLY reason for using the basket is so I hoist the grains out of the mash with the bag OPEN, and then I can pour sparge water directly onto the grains and let it pour out into the pot. Right now I am lifting the bag out by the drawstring, so it's a giant tea bag that I cannot pour sparge water onto. I suppose I could dunk sparge, but pouring water through the grain seems more efficient.

I do not heat during mash, so no worry about burning the bag. I made a false bottom but never use it.

 

[cannman]

Not buying this. Astringency comes from tannins, which is a result of high pH and high temp. Can you point us to something, like a study or paper, that would indicate finer crush equals astringency?

As a man of science, I'm more than happy to provide sources for materials! I listen to a lot of The Brewing Network's material, read a lot, so it is hard to pinpoint the overall picture, but this should lead you in the right direction for more self discovered research:

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-4/is-my-beer-ruined/common-off-flavors

These flavors are akin to the astringent flavors produced from the grain husks. These flavors are more evident in all-grain beers due to poor grain crushing or sparging practices. If the grain husks are shredded during crushing by the use of a Corona grain mill for instance, these husk flavors are more likely to be extracted during the sparge. Follow the same procedures recommended to prevent astringency to correct the problem.

I hope this helps!

 

[TexasWine]

Thanks for the link! I did a quick search on my phone for any evidence pointing in the other direction. Found a thread in which Kai and Denny both chimed in to say the opposite. Not a paper or anything, but just the first thing I came across. I'll keep digging in a bit. About to mash in a Schwarzbier.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=134033

 

[wilserbrewer]

I have a BC 44 qt with the steamer basket, I have never used the basket for BIAB brewing, only for low country boils. As TW mentioned, unless you are heating and recirculating, I'm not sure the basket is much value added for brewing....

 

[singybrue]

You haven't given any details about your crush. I would look at that first.
Do you use your own mill? What gap setting?
LHBS mill? Have you tried double crushing?
Sparging can help, but crush is the 1st step.

 

[enkamania]

I have a BC 44 qt with the steamer basket, I have never used the basket for BIAB brewing, only for low country boils. As TW mentioned, unless you are heating and recirculating, I'm not sure the basket is much value added for brewing....

For me, it makes it easier squeezing the bag. I lift the basket up, put a refrigerator shelf on the pot and then pull on the sides of the bag to squeeze it. To get the last drop, I use a pot lid to push down on the mash.

 

[petrolSpice]

You haven't given any details about your crush. I would look at that first.
Do you use your own mill? What gap setting?
LHBS mill? Have you tried double crushing?
Sparging can help, but crush is the 1st step.

The LHBS crushes it with a roller crusher, and they brew beer themselves in the store nearly everyday so I would certainly hope they have it set correctly. I just got more grains today for my next back and crushed it twice. We'll see if this helps.

 

[cannman]

Thanks for the link! I did a quick search on my phone for any evidence pointing in the other direction. Found a thread in which Kai and Denny both chimed in to say the opposite. Not a paper or anything, but just the first thing I came across. I'll keep digging in a bit. About to mash in a Schwarzbier.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=134033

Excellent!

In my last competition beers (2 beers sent to 2 different events) all beers were judged by different judges and all came back with the astringency. Yes, I was pulverizing to get higher efficiency. So I'm inclined to side with the "it does cause astringency" but as always, I will allow evidence to make my opinion. Cheers to brewing better beer~!

 

[jr72023]

Increases in efficiency come from finer crush and adding a sparge, not different equipment purchases. Adding the steamer basket may make your efficiency go down if there is a significant amount of water outside the basket.

About the finer crush, if this is true, why don't BMC beer makers use that system? Efficiency it what they are all about. Certainly, the "ten minute conversion" you constantly flail, would benefit them by millions of dollars, if it is true. So, why are the people who are only concerned about time and efficiency, instead of quality, not sold on your theories?

One has to wonder....

 

[Yeastieboy]

I've also been using a large Bayou kettle with basket and bag left in throughout the duration of mash. Note that not all Bayou kettles have the lip on the top to accommodate the basket. Anyhow, I've dabbled with fineness of crush and arrived back at the same crush used when I am on my 3-vessel system. I never experienced significantly or consistently better efficiency with a finer crush. You can certainly go too fine, introducing excessive particulate into the wort. I believe there is a point of diminishing returns. In general, I've always hit around 68-70% with BIAB and I'm OK with developing recipes around that. Never experienced astringency issues. I do avoid excessive bag squeezing and always thoroughly enjoying saying that ;-)

 

[TexasWine]

About the finer crush, if this is true, why don't BMC beer makers use that system?

With a crush as fine as what some folks are using with BIAB they'd spend so much time waiting on the mash tun to drain that any cost savings from efficiency would go out the window. Not to mention, sparging would be next to impossible.

Efficiency it what they are all about. Certainly, the "ten minute conversion" you constantly flail, would benefit them by millions of dollars, if it is true. So, why are the people who are only concerned about time and efficiency, instead of quality, not sold on your theories?

Faster conversion with a fine crush has been measured and established by many users on this forum. It's a known fact. However, even @RM-MN will admit that a beer with a 10 minute mash isn't an optimal beer.

And I think you're missing something pretty significant in your statement that the BMCs out there aren't concerned about quality. They are VERY concerned about quality. I'm not saying their quality is high, but by golly it's consistent, and that consistent quality is exactly what keeps them in business. They will do nothing to compromise it and I'm confident they spend millions each year to make sure their quality is exactly where they want it. How they're able to source their ingredients year in and year out, have breweries spread all across this nation/globe, and still make a consistent and reliable product is beyond my comprehension.

 

[doug293cz]

About the finer crush, if this is true, why don't BMC beer makers use that system? Efficiency it what they are all about. Certainly, the "ten minute conversion" you constantly flail, would benefit them by millions of dollars, if it is true. So, why are the people who are only concerned about time and efficiency, instead of quality, not sold on your theories?

One has to wonder....

Read up on High Efficiency Brewing Systems (HEBS.) I know some guys building a 20 bbl brewhouse using this type of system. They will be using a hammer mill to turn the malt to pretty much flour, to do very fast mashes. Commercial brewers are doing very fine crushes and short mashes. Someone like AB Inbev isn't going to dump all their current capital investment, and switch over to this in the short term. Corps will milk their capital investments until it is no longer cost effective to do so.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

Excellent!

In my last competition beers (2 beers sent to 2 different events) all beers were judged by different judges and all came back with the astringency. Yes, I was pulverizing to get higher efficiency. So I'm inclined to side with the "it does cause astringency" but as always, I will allow evidence to make my opinion. Cheers to brewing better beer~!

So, what are your measured mash pH's and end of sparge pH's? If you don't have data for those that are under 6.0 (5.8 would be better.) Then you have no basis to blame the crush. High pH is known to extract astringency from grain husks.

Brew on