Bavarian Hefeweizen water profile

[Silver_Is_Money]

I should have stated earlier that Martin Brungard brought the zinc deficiency issue with regard to brewing with RO water to my attention, and that he is to be credited for my awareness of this. I merely discovered the zinc sulfate product seen in my post #23 above. Most yeast nutrients do not contain zinc, and to my knowledge only Servomyces yeast nutrient contains zinc. Since I use Fermaid K as my yeast nutrient, I add 3-4 drops of the weak zinc sulfate solution found in the link I provided in post #23 above. There are many similar zinc sulfate nutritional products to the one I linked which would be just as good.

 

[Smellyglove]

1.5 mg per drop x 4 drops = 6 mg

6 mg / (10 Gal. * 3.7854 L/Gal.) = 0.159 mg/L

If most yeast strains require 0.1 - 0.2 mg/L, then 4 drops is rather nicely splitting the difference.

3 drops would be 0.12 mg/L

If you answered my question before I edited it you are correct and I read that yeast want 1-2 mg, not 0.1-0.2 mg as i noticed my error later.

But also. I found a product which ships to me, liquid zink. It says it contains zink from sulfate. and that it contains "ultra pure water". So is this heptahydrate? ZnSO4.7H2O? I also read that if using a heptahydrate one needs to bump it by 4x. I'm confused if the info for the product you linked to takes this into account? That one drop is actually what it states when it comes to pure zinc content.

I don't brew with RO water, but after starting using Seromyces in my hefes a few years ago they have improved very much.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

But also. I found a product which ships to me, liquid zink. It says it contains zink from sulfate. and that it contains "ultra pure water". So is this heptahydrate? ZnSO4.7H2O? I also read that if using a heptahydrate one needs to bump it by 4x. I'm confused if the info for the product you linked to takes this into account? That one drop is actually what it states when it comes to pure zinc content.

I don't brew with RO water, but after starting using Seromyces in my hefes a few years ago they have improved very much.

All I can say as to the zinc content is that one would hope that the manufacturer is capable of getting the zinc concentration correct for their product. That it contains zinc at some level is evident from the many reviewers who professed a complaint that they couldn't tolerate the strong zinc taste when adding the recommended 10 drops to a cup of water or fruit juice. Another good reason to not exceed 4 drops in 10 gallons.

 

[mabrungard]

Using those zinc drops is probably a better option for homebrew dosing since the dose when using solid zinc chloride or zinc sulfate is incredibly small. Those diluted drops should make it much easier. Good find, Larry.

 

[cactusgarrett]

@LLBeanJ, have you had any luck getting the malty flavors and orange-gold colors seen in commercial examples? In my experience there is no combination of wheat + pils that adds up to the color of a Paulaner. Even adding a little bit of specialty malt doesn't do it.

Decoction!

 

[LLBeanJ]

Decoction!

That too!

 

[rakader]

While weizen yeasts do tend to drive beer pH down better than some other yeasts, you don't want to handicap them too much with an overly high wort pH. One factor that may not have been mentioned is that many German brewers mash at a slightly higher pH and carry that pH through most of the boil. However, most then add saurergut to the wort at the end of boil to bring the pre-fermentation wort pH into a proper range. For the typical homebrewer, targeting a slightly lower mashing pH in the 5.2 to 5.4 range is an easier and surer way to produce a great hefeweizen.

If clove notes are missing in your hefe's, the most important components in achieving that are to: 1) perform a ferrulic acid rest, 2) limit the wheat content to about 50%. The biggest fault I find in judging commercial American-made craft hefe's is that they lack the clove note due to their single-step mashing. You will have a very difficult time creating clove without that low temp ferrulic rest. The other aspect that is worth explaining is that barley contains more of the clove precursors than wheat does. That's the reason behind limiting wheat percentage. In my opinion, executing these factors is more successful in producing a great weizen than performing the elevated mashing pH and end of boil pH reduction.

Yes and no.
for the original taste of German wheat beer, do not add acid. Acid destroys the banana flavor.

This makes it difficult to get into the right pH range. Munich water is really only suitable for dark beers. That is why it is treated.
The optimal residual alkalinity for a wheat beer is between 0 - 5 dH, corresponding to 0 - 89 ppm CaCO3.

Probably the best water for a wheat beer is taken by the monks of Weltenburg Abbey on the Danube in Bavaria. The monastery is the oldest brewery in the world.

pH 7.5
Ca 116
Mg 28
Na 7
SO₄ 35
Cl 28


Total hardness 20.9 dH = 3,89 mmol/L

The high magnesium value should be noted.

A German Hefeweizen also works with a higher pH. pH 5.6 should almost never be reached without additives. That's why a wheat beer also works with hard Munich water.
German brewing scientists Kai Tröster and Prof. Narziß state pH 6.0 as the optimum value for a wheat.

However, one reason why Hefeweizen also works with hard water could be that the mash contains only 50% husks and thus fewer tannins can be dissolved from it.

Quote
"Furthermore, even with pure osmosis water, the pH value does not fall far below 6.0 (+/- measurement tolerance)."

This I can confirm.

 

[mabrungard]

Yes and no.
for the original taste of German wheat beer, do not add acid. Acid destroys the banana flavor.

Hmm, this is sounding like a ‘tomatoe’ ‘tomata’ argument. All brewing requires acid. The question is how it gets there and when in the process.

German brewers employ several options including acid rests, saurergut, and acid malt. You are correct that traditional German brewers do not use liquid acids such as lactic. But they do still employ acid in their brewing.

In my opinion, the worst thing a Weizen brewer can do, is fail to properly acidify their wort or beer. I’ve had hundreds of pro and home brewed Weizens and their dull flavors, darker color, and lack of brightness are dead giveaways.

Weizen brings a multitude of flavors to the taster: banana, vanilla, clove, etc. I don’t find that most German Weizens have much banana notes since that overwhelms the other flavors and is a mark of poor brewing.

I can guarantee that pH has far less impact on banana than fermentation temperature. However, keeping mashing pH in the high 5 range does enhance ferrulic acid production which enhances clove flavor and aroma. So this does suggest that pH can be high early in the brewing process, but an important fact is that wort pH is brought down to a lower range later. It’s never left high, since that’s a great way to produce that lackluster result I mentioned above.

 

[Bassman2003]

I would agree. The late boil sauergut or lactic addition down to the 5.1 range (or lower) is the key. I do not think one wants to put pH 6 wort in the fermenter and expect the yeast to be happy.

I have been employing low oxygen techniques over the past two years and my hefeweizen brews are night and day better. I would encourage all who are chasing this style to give some serious consideration to this approach. Low oxygen on the hot side, use of sauergut I made myself, keg purging and spunding all add up to keeping the flavors and aromas of this style of beer in tact all the way through the process.

 

[ChuckS1]

Martin, at what point during the mashing should I add any required acid? After the ferulic acid rest?

 

[Horseflesh]

I have been employing low oxygen techniques over the past two years and my hefeweizen brews are night and day better.

I've tried everything short of low oxygen and my hefeweizen still sucks... pale, flabby and tasteless. I'm afraid you might be right, haha.

 

[mabrungard]

Keeping the wort pH in the mid 5 range throughout most of the boil does help with DMS conversion and removal. Drop the pH at the end of the boil.

 

[Bassman2003]

I have always enjoyed all of the beers I have made over the last 18 years. We tend to be biased about our own homebrews. But, the last few years have seen huge increases for me. The LODO techniques are largely sound brewing practices along with some steps to limit O2 exposure. It is just better process in the end imho. I do not know why there is such resistance by so many or a stigma.

As far as I my hefes now, they are bright, fruity, funky and have a great nose. I attribute this to the lower amount of O2 exposure that would have normally dulled these attributes. But, many like their beer at all stages, so one size does not fit all. It is up to everybody to experiment or pursue based upon their own interests.