Batch and Fly sparging. Whats the difference?

[Malticulous]

A mash out can do more than stop beta-amylase, it can increase conversion efficiency. I believe the added stir can expose starches that were not easily reached during the mash. With alpha amylase in hyper drive they get converted in the short rest. That's not a lautering efficiency increase, it's the good stuff.

As far a fermentability goes I've had better luck adjusting the grain bill than using mash temps. It may be because I use a thiner mash that makes more fermentable wort anyway.

Using both a mash out and double batch sparge may be worth 6-8 points. Is it worth the extra 20-30 minutes? I don't know I guess that depends on how much grain and time I have on hand, but what is worth it is being able to hit my predicted gravity within three points.

 

[ajf]

I'm not going to debate fly vs batch they are both fine ways of making beer. But please be so kind as to tell me how one way of rinsing grains makes "better" beer than another??

Try thinking from the other side. Is there anything that could make a beer worse? I can think of oversparging, sparging too hot, changing the conversion profile during an extended sparge etc.

I have no doubt that I could have screwed up somewhere with my batch sparge attempts, and that adversely affected the quality of the brews.
As it happened repeatedly I gave up on batch sparging, and went back to fly.

Doesn't mean that others will be affected in the same way, which I said in my original post.

-a.

 

[wildwest450]

Try thinking from the other side. Is there anything that could make a beer worse? I can think of oversparging, sparging too hot, changing the conversion profile during an extended sparge etc.

I have no doubt that I could have screwed up somewhere with my batch sparge attempts, and that adversely affected the quality of the brews.
As it happened repeatedly I gave up on batch sparging, and went back to fly.

Doesn't mean that others will be affected in the same way, which I said in my original post.

-a.

Wow, some brewing software will take care of all those problems. It's not as hard as you make it out to be. Also all the above mentioned problems can be made with fly sparging.

 

[ajf]

I don't disagree, but why should I change? I've had about 5 batches with a batch sparge, and over 300 batches fly sparging. I find fly sparging to be easier and gives better results; and with my current equipment it only takes a few minutes longer.
I don't think I said that batch sparging was particularly hard, just that I probably screwed up somewhere.
I also never said that the potential problems that can affect wort quality were specific to batch sparging. I was just answering your question. Oversparging and extended sparge times are much more likely to occur with a fly sparge as I'm sure you know.

-a.

 

[The Pol]

Rob,

Great link! Lots of good tools and info there. Thanks.

Rob (also)

No problem, I knew that piece was there, because I wrote it.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

A mash out can do more than stop beta-amylase, it can increase conversion efficiency. I believe the added stir can expose starches that were not easily reached during the mash. With alpha amylase in hyper drive they get converted in the short rest. That's not a lautering efficiency increase, it's the good stuff.

As far a fermentability goes I've had better luck adjusting the grain bill than using mash temps. It may be because I use a thiner mash that makes more fermentable wort anyway.

Using both a mash out and double batch sparge may be worth 6-8 points. Is it worth the extra 20-30 minutes? I don't know I guess that depends on how much grain and time I have on hand, but what is worth it is being able to hit my predicted gravity within three points.

This came up in another thread and in digging for info I found a post by Kaiser regarding this. I think Kaiser did experiments with cold-water sparges and his efficiency didn't take nearly the hit you would expect. Here's a comment he made in this thread basically agreeing with what you just said, just in a different context:

Just to clarify my claim: It (the sparge water temp) should not affect your efficiency if all the conversion is done in the mash. But especially when mashing thick you may not convert all the starches in the mash and subsequent conversion happens during lautering. This is when you see the sparge temp affecting efficiency. The hotter the faster and more complete that conversion will be.

Totally agree on hitting the OG @ volume.

 

[Denny]

By heating the sparge water to 185° (or whatever it takes to get the grainbed to 168°), a batch sparger is, in effect, conducting a mashout with the sparge infusion.

It's not even that, really. You;d need to hold the temp at 170ish for 20 min. in order to truly denature enzymes. I dunno about you, but I've never done that. The reason that there's less need for batch spargers to denature enzymes is becasue batch sparging goes so much more quickly than your average fly sparge, you bring the wort to a boil much more quickly, which obviously will denature enzymes.

 

[Yambor44]

Dude this thread is not about the virtues of fly or batch sparging, please re-read the op. He simply asked the difference between the two.

Isn't his statement stating a difference?