Batch and Fly sparging. Whats the difference?

[bjzelectric]

Kinda ridiculous but Im having trouble figuring out the difference between batch and fly sparging. Can anyone explain it in Leymans terms for a knucklehead like myself?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Fly sparging is a continuous rinsing of the grain, water in equals water out of the mash tun. The tun is drained out the bottom as sparge water is added to the top continuosly w/out stirring the grain.

Batch sparging is where "batches" of sparge water are added to the tun, stirred and drained completely, and then repeated 1 or a few times.

Some argue fly sparging has benifits, but IMHO batching is simpler and less equipment sensitive, yet will also produce acceptable results.

 

[petep1980]

In fly sparging do you keep rinsing with wort, or keep adding new liquor?

 

[Yooper]

In fly sparging do you keep rinsing with wort, or keep adding new liquor?

You add water, generally from the HLT with a hose or other system with a gentle inflow as to not disturb the grainbed or to flow faster than the draining. About an inch of water above the grainbed is sufficient. Usually, a fly sparge (also continuous sparge) takes 40-60 minutes.

 

[Malticulous]

Batch spaging is better!

 

[KayaBrew]

Batch spaging is better!

Right On!

 

[Benjibbad]

I just did my first fly sparge on my last batch, I didn't notice a huge differance in the wort so far but I added another 5% efficiency over my normal 70%. I will try it again this weekend to see if it was a fluke or if it really is better (for me).

 

[ajf]

With the right equipment and done properly, fly sparging can produce a slightly higher efficiency than batch sparging; but with the wrong equipment, or done improperly, fly sparging can be much less efficient because of channeling. It is also very easy to over sparge when fly sparging resulting in excess tannin extraction, while it is virtually impossible to do this with a batch sparge.

-a.

 

[Malticulous]

I can get over 90% batch sparging, averaging 87%. Fly sparging is a waste of my time and money.

 

[The Pol]

Here is a pretty comprehensive run down of both sparge procedures along with some pros and cons... good read.

Batch vs Fly is as rediculous as Aluminum vs Stainless, Pellet vs Leaf, HERMS vs RIMS or Chill vs No Chill. None of them, really matter or make that big of a difference. You will probably screw something up that is simple, that would contribute more to a difference in your final product than any of these differences combined.

People like thier soap boxes... but none of the above make an appreciable difference in your beer. Do what fits your style or your system. After all, this is just a hobby.

Sparging Methods | Brewer's Friend

 

[The Pol]

I can get over 90% batch sparging, averaging 87%. Fly sparging is a waste of my time and money.

How long does it take to do a double batch sparge? Arent you supposed to let the batches rest for 5-10 mins before running off?

I ask, because I an fly sparge in 30 minutes and still get great eff. I have nver understood the idea that batch sparging is that much faster, unless you are single batch sparging perhaps.

 

[BierMuncher]

I can get over 90% batch sparging...

 

[The Pol]

Remember that dude that claimed he got like 96% eff. and attributed it to his extended vorlauf? That was funny.

 

[Malticulous]

I do it, over and over.

 

[Malticulous]

How long does it take to do a double batch sparge? Arent you supposed to let the batches rest for 5-10 mins before running off?

I ask, because I an fly sparge in 30 minutes and still get great eff. I have nver understood the idea that batch sparging is that much faster, unless you are single batch sparging perhaps.

No rest, but stirring is important. I stir until I think it's enough and then stir it over again. The point is to wash the sugars out in the water and agitation is key. Fly sparging has none of that. It expects the watter to do the work I can do better.

I mash thin, 1.4-1.7 qt:lb and I mash out. I like to have the sparge watter volume close to but less than the strike volume. I split the sparge watter into to equal sparges. They are thick sparges.

It still takes less time than fly sparging did. I never had fly sparing down with a proper sparge arm but I got 80% with the bad crush back when I did it. When I got my grian mill I started batch sparging and I will never go back.

 

[davesrose]

Meh....I fly sparge and it works great for me! I get great effeciency, and I hear brewers who batch sparge can get great effeciency too. I guess we're both doing something right!

In the long run, you could ask so many people what is better: batch vs fly...and you'll get the same amount of varying opinion. Due to everyone's results, I wouldn't say one is inherently better then the other. It just boils down to preference. For me, I like fly sparging because I can get some pretty fine crush without getting a stuck sparge. Other people seem to like batch sparging because they think it's easier, quicker, or just plain better. Whatever works for you is the best route to go.

 

[The Pol]

I always use twp ply when I wipe...

 

[WBC]

Read here if the OP has not done so.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/hybrid-fly-sparge-technique-75454/

 

[Denny]

How long does it take to do a double batch sparge? Arent you supposed to let the batches rest for 5-10 mins before running off?

Nope...stir in saprge water, vorlauf, and runoff. And IME and IMO, doing 2 spargesd is more trouble than it's worth 99% of the time.

I ask, because I an fly sparge in 30 minutes and still get great eff. I have nver understood the idea that batch sparging is that much faster, unless you are single batch sparging perhaps.

For about 7.5 gal. of wort, it takes me about 15 min. from the time I start the mash runoff to the time I finish the sparge runoff.

 

[Whiskey]

I always use twp ply when I wipe...

You know you would get better efficency if you used both sides of a single ply. You'd get crap on your hands, but it would more efficient.

 

[bob1852]

Remember that dude that claimed he got like 96% eff. and attributed it to his extended vorlauf? That was funny.

You mean the guy that inspired this:

I double batch sparge and don't rest - just add the sparge water, stir like heck for about 30-60 seconds, vorlauf and run-off. Since I'm running a ghetto single-tier with no pumps, the vast majority of the sparge time for me is transfering water from my HLT to MLT using a gallon jug

 

[Malticulous]

And IME and IMO, doing 2 spargesd is more trouble than it's worth 99% of the time.

From what I've read, I think it was Bobby M, it's worth about another 3%. Not much but I'm consistently getting 85-90% and like that consistency. If I got 75% every time I would be happy too--it's only a few dollars anyway. The beer is good and that is the whole point.

 

[The Pol]

You know you would get better efficency if you used both sides of a single ply. You'd get crap on your hands, but it would more efficient.

Well, efficiency is everything man... thanks for the tip.

Feel free to come over to sample my Hefe and SNPA no chills, used your hops yet?

 

[Bokonon]

How long does it take to do a double batch sparge? Arent you supposed to let the batches rest for 5-10 mins before running off?

I ask, because I an fly sparge in 30 minutes and still get great eff. I have nver understood the idea that batch sparging is that much faster, unless you are single batch sparging perhaps.

Looking over my notes between fly sparge brews and double batch sparge brews the difference is only about 20 minutes. I've only recently switched to fly sparging and this is on new equipment so I suspect I'll be shaving off a little time as I learn the equipment a little better.

 

[beerkrump]

IIRC, if you are getting higher than 85% efficiency you are more than likely extracting some undesirable compounds as the gravities of your runnings thin.

 

[Malticulous]

IIRC, if you are getting higher than 85% efficiency you are more than likely extracting some undesirable compounds as the gravities of your runnings thin.

Have to disagree. I know the taste and when I got it I had less than 85% (and was fly spaging.) I started to mash thiner, adjust pH and keep the mash 168 or less. Not only did the tannins go away my efficiency went up. Big breweries are not producing defective beer either.

 

[ajf]

Have to disagree. I know the taste and when I got it I had less than 85% (and was fly spaging.) I started to mash thiner, adjust pH and keep the mash 168 or less. Not only did the tannins go away my efficiency went up. Big breweries are not producing defective beer either.

That just goes to show that you were not fly sparging correctly, or did not have the right equipment. That means that (in your case) batch sparging correctly is better than fly sparging incorrectly.

The vast majority of the big breweries fly sparge. They do so because it is more efficient and does not produce defective beer (when done correctly).

For me, fly sparging is better because it is easier, gives higher efficiency, produces more consistent results (especially with higher gravity brews), and produces better tasting beer. That doesn't mean it is right for everyone.

-a.

 

[The Pol]

That just goes to show that you were not fly sparging correctly, or did not have the right equipment. That means that (in your case) batch sparging correctly is better than fly sparging incorrectly.

The vast majority of the big breweries fly sparge. They do so because it is more efficient and does not produce defective beer (when done correctly).

For me, fly sparging is better because it is easier, gives higher efficiency, produces more consistent results (especially with higher gravity brews), and produces better tasting beer. That doesn't mean it is right for everyone.

-a.

You fly spargers think you are so cool and perfect... you and your soap boxes!

(I fly sparge)

Oh, sure, your way is BEST...

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

IIRC, if you are getting higher than 85% efficiency you are more than likely extracting some undesirable compounds as the gravities of your runnings thin.

I think it is somewhat dependant on the equipment (and process...but even assuming a 'perfect for the equipment' process the equipment may have limits). Some rigs might be able to exceed 85% with good wort quality where some rigs might not even get to 85% before wort quality suffers.

I fly sparge only because that's what my equipment is better designed for and I'm reluctant to change (don't see a need to). Batch sparging with my existing rig would be foolish imo. But if I had a cooler with a braid I'd def be batch sparging. I intentionally temper efficiency just because I don't feel I can exceed 85% and consistently not have it affect wort quality.

 

[Whiskey]

Well, efficiency is everything man... thanks for the tip.

Feel free to come over to sample my Hefe and SNPA no chills, used your hops yet?

Lol of course.

I will have to do that, my Weizen came out fantastic also, used some of the hops for that batch.

I have not been brewing the last couple of months; my brewing budget has gone to building my rig (%90 complete).

Back on topic, I batch sparge because that is what I know and how my current equipment is set up. Once my in progress rig is complete I could go fly sparge with little equipment modification, I probably won't but the option will be there.