Basic highly drinkable house IPA critiques

[TheMadKing]

So I'm working on developing a house IPA that is flavorful and very drinkable. Moderate to low ABV, with a citrusy hop characteristic that isn't going to remove the enamel from anyone's teeth. I just want a refreshing drinkable beer that's great on a hot day.

The last one I brewed ended up being a little on the sweet side, so I reduced the fermentables and upped the IBU's a little.

Side note: if anyone is on the "simcoe tastes like cat piss" team, this IPA won't be for you. My fiance and I love simcoe hops so those are definitely staying

Here's my recipe:

BIAB 90 minute full volume mash a 152F
Room temp mash pH at 5.3 as calculated by Bru'n water and measured 20 minutes into the mash.
I use RO water and build up my mineral profiles according to the style.

OG 1.052
FG 1.010
ABV 5.5%
SRM 4
IBU 41 (tinseth)


Grains

6 lb 2-row
2 lb white wheat
1.5 lb Vienna

Hop Schedule
0.5 oz Columbus @ 60 min
2 oz Centennial @ 5 min
2 oz Simcoe @ 0 min (whirlpool/steep 30 mins before chilling)

2 oz Simcoe dry hop for 7 days
2 oz Centennial dry hop for 7 days

Yeast

WY1056 in a 1.5 L stir-plate starter

Any critiques would be appreciated, especially on the hop schedule. I'm going for big aroma, citrusy and a little piney, with less intense bitterness.

UPDATED TO ACCOUNT FOR iijakii, yooper, jayhem, m00ps, BigMac, atom, and agrazela's comments

 

[iijakii]

For the hop schedule just remove the 30mins. Get all of your IBUs from your bittering charge and then throw the rest in at big flameout/whirlpools.

My one comment on the grain bill is that doesnt look like a refreshing drinker on a hot day to me. I'd personally start with removing the Munich and getting the FG under 1.010, but I like my pales dry. Up to you.

 

[agrazela]

I'd do something like move the 30min CTZ to add it to the 90min FWH. Then move 0.5oz of the 30min Simcoe to add it to the 5min Simcoe. Then move the other 1oz 30min Simcoe to join the 0min 1oz Centennial. Then I'd add another oz of Simcoe at 0-5min. Then I'd add another 2oz Centennial between 0min and the dry hop. Then I'd add in some more CTZ if needed to get to the IBU you want.

In short: Ditch the 30min add, and increase the late hops.

EDIT: beaten to the punch

 

[TheMadKing]

For the hop schedule just remove the 30mins. Get all of your IBUs from your bittering charge and then throw the rest in at big flameout/whirlpools.

My one comment on the grain bill is that doesnt look like a refreshing drinker on a hot day to me. I'd personally start with removing the Munich and getting the FG under 1.010, but I like my pales dry. Up to you.

What do you think of that? I replaced the munich with vienna, and upped the wheat a bit, and rearranged the hop schedule.

I've been shying away from 30 minute hop additions lately anyway.

 

[iijakii]

Looks tasty to me, I love Vienna. You could cut out the carapils to make it simpler since you have a hefty wheat amount already. Something to experiment with as you repeatedly brew it. Try subbing more vienna in for 2row etc and see what you think. Pales are a lot of fun to mess around with small changes like that.

Im sure you know my feelings on hop amounts if you wanna call this an IPA instead of a pale ale though

 

[TheMadKing]

Looks tasty to me, I love Vienna. You could cut out the carapils to make it simpler since you have a hefty wheat amount already. Something to experiment with as you repeatedly brew it. Try subbing more vienna in for 2row etc and see what you think. Pales are a lot of fun to mess around with small changes like that.

Im sure you know my feelings on hop amounts if you wanna call this an IPA instead of a pale ale though

Oooook.. I upped the late and dry hops to what I'm beginning to suspect is a ludicrous amount but I'll give it a shot

 

[GrogNerd]

been moving away from Simcoe. still love it, but am loving a Citra/Mosaic combo even more

your recipe looks good. I would drink it

 

[Yooper]

I don't understand the hops schedule- are the 90 minute columbus hops FWH, or mash hops?

columbus can be very harsh, and for them in a quaffable beer, I think "less is more" applies.

With an OG of 1.054, I'd probably keep the IBUs under 60 (a .900-.980 SG/IBU ratio).

 

[TheMadKing]

been moving away from Simcoe. still love it, but am loving a Citra/Mosaic combo even more

your recipe looks good. I would drink it

I haven't tried that combo actually, maybe I'll brew a test batch with that combo and see if I like it better. Thanks!

 

[GrogNerd]

I haven't tried that combo actually, maybe I'll brew a test batch with that combo and see if I like it better. Thanks!

where you are, you have to be able to get your hands on some Deschutes Fresh Squeezed.

best example I can think of with that combo

 

[TheMadKing]

I don't understand the hops schedule- are the 90 minute columbus hops FWH, or mash hops?

columbus can be very harsh, and for them in a quaffable beer, I think "less is more" applies.

With an OG of 1.054, I'd probably keep the IBUs under 60 (a .900-.980 SG/IBU ratio).

Since I brew in a bag and don't sparge, I was planning to dump the columbus in at the beginning of the 90 minute mash. It's not exactly standard first wort hopping, I know. I didn't know there was a separate "mash hop" term though.

So maybe remove the 60 minute Columbus addition and replace it with centennial?

or would you suggest moving the 60 min columbus addition to a 10 or 5 min addition?

 

[TheMadKing]

where you are, you have to be able to get your hands on some Deschutes Fresh Squeezed.

best example I can think of with that combo

Oh, well then I guess I have had it haha! and I'm apparently guilty of not paying attention

 

[Jayhem]

There is no benefit to using Centennial to bitter with, it usually costs 2 time more than Columbus. Just use all columbus to bitter and add it all at the same time, either FWH or at 60 and run the IBU calcs from there. the most efficient use of hops for bitterness and flavor aroma is bitter up front and then put all the rest of the hops in the last 15 minutes, do a hop stand with a couple ounces and then of course dry hop after it's fully fermented out and mostly clearing up.

88 IBU's in a 1.052 OG beer is going to be very much on the bitter side, basically a session west coast IPA bitterness with a lot more malt body from the Cara and Vienna. For example Sierra Nevada Pale ale is only 35 IBU at 1.051 OG. Once the BU:OG ratio is higher than 1 you are not in the "session summer drinker" territory anymore and it will be super bitter to all but those who drink nothing but west coast IPAs.

 

[TheMadKing]

There is no benefit to using Centennial to bitter with, it usually costs 2 time more than Columbus. Just use all columbus to bitter and add it all at the same time, either FWH or at 60 and run the IBU calcs from there. the most efficient use of hops for bitterness and flavor aroma is bitter up front and then put all the rest of the hops in the last 15 minutes, do a hop stand with a couple ounces and then of course dry hop after it's fully fermented out and mostly clearing up.

88 IBU's in a 1.052 OG beer is going to be very much on the bitter side, basically a session west coast IPA bitterness with a lot more malt body from the Cara and Vienna. For example Sierra Nevada Pale ale is only 35 IBU at 1.051 OG. Once the BU:OG ratio is higher than 1 you are not in the "session summer drinker" territory anymore and it will be super bitter to all but those who drink nothing but west coast IPAs.

Ok, so I just removed the 60 min centennial addition. Which dropped the IBUs to 51

Does the mash hopping that I'm planning to do add a significant amount of bitterness? I was under the impression that it added mostly aroma and character in a slightly different way than late hop additions?

EDIT: after a quick search I now understand yoopers confusion and your suggestions more. Mash hopping is exactly the same as a 60 minute addition in terms of bitterness.

So I removed the 60 minute hop addition and put 1 oz of Columbus in the mash. That should actually be 51 IBUs

 

[GrogNerd]

Oh, well then I guess I have had it haha! and I'm apparently guilty of not paying attention

if you didn't know those were in the beer, it's not that you weren't paying attention, you just didn't know.

now you know, and you know if you like Fresh Squeezed, you might like that combo in your beer.

I love Fresh Squeezed. that's why I'm fermenting a clone as we speak!

 

[Yooper]

Ok, so I just removed the 60 min centennial addition. Which dropped the IBUs to 51

Does the mash hopping that I'm planning to do add a significant amount of bitterness? I was under the impression that it added mostly aroma and character in a slightly different way than late hop additions?

Mash hopping doesn't really add much at all, in my opinion. I do it occasionally, because I have pounds and pounds of homegrown hops.

It's not at all the same as first wort hopping (FWH) when the hops are added to the wort, not the mash, and then steeped in the hot wort and then left in during the boil. FWH provides full IBUs, but the general thought is that it is a "smoother" bitterness.

An ounce of columbus at 60 minutes (or FWH) may be a bit too much for my taste in a "quaffable" lower ABV IPA. I'd use that addition to get around 25-30 IBUs and then load up the late additions to get to 50-55 or so.

 

[m00ps]

I think it looks solid as it stands at the time of posting this.

Are you planning on letting the flameout hops steep? This will let you pull out a good deal of flavor from them and is the secret to making IPAs like this IME

 

[TheMadKing]

Mash hopping doesn't really add much at all, in my opinion. I do it occasionally, because I have pounds and pounds of homegrown hops.

It's not at all the same as first wort hopping (FWH) when the hops are added to the wort, not the mash, and then steeped in the hot wort and then left in during the boil. FWH provides full IBUs, but the general thought is that it is a "smoother" bitterness.

An ounce of columbus at 60 minutes (or FWH) may be a bit too much for my taste in a "quaffable" lower ABV IPA. I'd use that addition to get around 25-30 IBUs and then load up the late additions to get to 50-55 or so.

Thanks for the explanation, I was definitely not clear on that.

So I dropped the mash hopping and stuck in a 60 minute addition of .5 oz of Columbus. That should be 22 IBU right there. My brewing software doesn't add any IBUs for flame out or dry hop additions so I moved the centennial back to 5 minutes.. That gives me a final IBU of 41

Whew! I'm learning a few things about hop schedules right now

 

[TheMadKing]

I think it looks solid as it stands at the time of posting this.

Are you planning on letting the flameout hops steep? This will let you pull out a good deal of flavor from them and is the secret to making IPAs like this IME

Yes I usually leave them in during the entire chill, ~30 mins

 

[m00ps]

Yes I usually leave them in during the entire chill, ~30 mins

No, by steeping (aka hopstand / whirlpool additions), I mean waiting BEFORE chilling. If you turn the flameout, put a lid on your kettle, and wait 20-30min before chilling, it will pull a very pungent hop character out without adding appreciable bitterness

 

[BigMack]

Thanks for the explanation, I was definitely not clear on that.

So I dropped the mash hopping and stuck in a 60 minute addition of .5 oz of Columbus. That should be 22 IBU right there. My brewing software doesn't add any IBUs for flame out or dry hop additions so I moved the centennial back to 5 minutes.. That gives me a final IBU of 41

Whew! I'm learning a few things about hop schedules right now

If you're going to let the FO hops steep at all then you need to have them in as steep/whirlpool hops not just a flameout addition. If you're putting them in as just a regular flameout addition then the software most likely thinks you are adding them and immediately getting the beer down to pitching temps. If you make that change you should see the IBUs for the late addition hops.

 

[atom]

Yes I usually leave them in during the entire chill, ~30 mins

you may want to consider letting them steep for 30 min or so before you start your chiller.

 

[TheMadKing]

No, by steeping (aka hopstand / whirlpool additions), I mean waiting BEFORE chilling. If you turn the flameout, put a lid on your kettle, and wait 20-30min before chilling, it will pull a very pungent hop character out without adding appreciable bitterness

Oh ok, I'll do that with the final simcoe addition on this one, thanks for the tip!

 

[chickypad]

Grains

6 lb 2-row
2 lb white wheat
1.5 lb Vienna

Hop Schedule
0.5 oz Columbus @ 60 min
2 oz Centennial @ 5 min
2 oz Simcoe @ 0 min (whirlpool/steep 30 mins before chilling)

2 oz Simcoe dry hop for 7 days
2 oz Centennial dry hop for 7 days

It's really hard to follow the thread when you make multiple changes to the original post, but if this is the final recipe I agree it looks good. Despite all the new great hops out there I keep coming back to Simcoe + (cascade or centennial or amarillo) for my two hop combos.

 

[TheMadKing]

It's really hard to follow the thread when you make multiple changes to the original post, but if this is the final recipe I agree it looks good. Despite all the new great hops out there I keep coming back to Simcoe + (cascade or centennial or amarillo) for my two hop combos.

I realized that after I had already started doing it, so I apologize for that.

The original post is fully updated and has been maintained as the most current version of recipe after each change.

Thanks!

 

[TheMadKing]

Kegged this up on sunday and tasted it last night, its pretty good. There is a nice malt backbone to a juicy and refreshing IPA.

Notes for next time though: the hop bitterness is "soft" and subdued, it doesn't have that tangy, citrusy, resiny sharpness that I was expecting. While that does make it very drinkable, I would almost characterize this as a hoppy APA instead of an IPA. The hop profile is definitely the prominent flavor, but it's missing an aspect.

I think I need to add another ounce or two of Simcoe at 15 minutes to up the actual IBU's a bit, or perhaps a different hop variety would be better to get that sharp citrusy refreshing quality?

 

[curtw]

My take, FWIW: I'm not a fan of CTZ for bittering. I much prefer a more (to me) neutral big alpha bittering hop for a 60min addition or FWH -- usually Warrior or Magnum. When I was looking to brew a "dank" IPA, I found lots of posts to this effect -- so for me limiting the CTZ to flameout + dry hopping gave it the quality I was looking for, without the slap-in-my-face I've gotten from CTZ for bittering.

Also, I prefer a clear beer for an IPA; that much wheat would give me too much haze. I've used up to 5% wheat for my IPAs, but more than that is not my preference.

 

[m00ps]

I would go with a larger whirlpool addition. It will pull out more flavor and a bit of soft bitterness. You could easily triple the whirlpool addition without getting anything too bitter.

 

[TheMadKing]

I would go with a larger whirlpool addition. It will pull out more flavor and a bit of soft bitterness. You could easily triple the whirlpool addition without getting anything too bitter.

Now that i have a pint in my hand, I feel like it almost needs to be more bitter. So maybe I'll add one late addition and more to the steeping addition. I know Simcoe can achieve the character I'm after, but I might be after a touch more tart/grapefruit, so I may throw in an ounce of Citra at steep as well.

I also think I should up the OG just a bit to boost the overall heft and backbone of the beer. It's a little on the lighter/watery side of things, and since I'm a big thirsty guy I like my session beers to be a tad on this side of 6% (not the definition of session, I know).

 

[TheMadKing]

The finished product. I don't mind the haziness, it makes the beer taste thicker when it's cloudy, to me.

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