Basic electric burner

[brewprint]

I've browsed this forum and I just cannot find the absolute basic thing that I would need.

I've seen electric burners before but what would I need to get 6.5-12 gallons of wort boiling? Let's say a 20 gallon pot?

I'm not really interested in buying one of these pre made rigs. Just interested in doing BIAB without having to refill my 20lb propane tank ever 4-5 brews. Also thinking about eventually doing this indoors.

Any help would be appreciated on the basics.

 

[stlbeer]

What do you consider to be basic? How closely do you want to hold temps?

You can learn how much energy is needed by finding a spreadsheet called "electricheat.xls". Google it.

 

[brewprint]

I just want to get to a full volume mash temp and check it every 20-30 minutes. Then heat as necessary.

I don't do a sparge so I probably need more heat to get to the mash temp.

Then get to a boil with the full volume.

 

[brewprint]

Wow looks like I'm wanting >4000 watts.

 

[TexasWine]

This is about as basic as you can get.

http://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotrod.htm

Heat the water, dough in, insulate the kettle, after a while pull the bag, drop the Hot Rod in and get to boiling.

 

[brewprint]

This is about as basic as you can get.

http://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotrod.htm

Heat the water, dough in, insulate the kettle, after a while pull the bag, drop the Hot Rod in and get to boiling.

Okay here's the issue I see.

I do not do a sparge and sticking a heat stick or using an electric water heater element may scorch the wort. The other issue I think I'll have is ripping the bag.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016Y1CZIS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I see that's not cheap but it looks really convenient.

 

[TexasWine]

Okay here's the issue I see.

I do not do a sparge and sticking a heat stick or using an electric water heater element may scorch the wort. The other issue I think I'll have is ripping the bag.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016Y1CZIS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I see that's not cheap but it looks really convenient.

Can't figure out if you're trolling or serious....

Scorching the wort has nothing to do with your method for mashing, full volume or otherwise. It has everything to do with the wattage density of the element you use, and sometimes random stuff like stopping the boil and restarting it which causes proteins to settle on the element, or if you're recirculating and you suck the space beneath your false bottom dry.

Second, the Hot Rod should not be in the kettle during the mash. That is unless you're using a controller and pump to maintain mash temps, which I'm assuming you aren't because you stated you wanted a simple set up.

 

[brewprint]

Can't figure out if you're trolling or serious....

Scorching the wort has nothing to do with your method for mashing, full volume or otherwise. It has everything to do with the wattage density of the element you use, and sometimes random stuff like stopping the boil and restarting it which causes proteins to settle on the element, or if you're recirculating and you suck the space beneath your false bottom dry.

Second, the Hot Rod should not be in the kettle during the mash. That is unless you're using a controller and pump to maintain mash temps, which I'm assuming you aren't because you stated you wanted a simple set up.

Trolling? Some people think when others ask legitimate questions it's trolling I guess.

Perhaps I could've phrased my question better to help you understand. An element would have to be in the kettle during the mash in order to maintain mash temp. By the element staying in the kettle I could obviously rip the bag when stirring the mash...every 20-30 minutes.

I use a simple pot. No false bottoms and have no plans for one.

I'm thinking that induction is the way to go for the type of setup that I'm wanting to do.

 

[TexasWine]

An element would have to be in the kettle during the mash in order to maintain mash temp. By the element staying in the kettle I could obviously rip the bag when stirring the mash...every 20-30 minutes.

I'm thinking that induction is the way to go for the type of setup that I'm wanting to do.

Sorry, honestly couldn't tell. The statement about scorching the wort made me wonder if you were just trying to get a rise out of the electric brewers here that use submerged elements.

You don't have to leave the element in the kettle to maintain mash temps. Just insulate the kettle with a sleeping bag, towels, old ski jacket, anything really. Temp should barely budge, and your mash will most likely be done in 30 minutes time if you crush finely. This was the method I used before switching to a circulating BIAB system, 30 minute mash and all.

If simple is your goal, then this is a good route to go. An induction burner would work, but not as cheaply as what I've suggested.

 

[2trout]

I BIAB simply, as you are trying to do. Electric heat from a source outside the pot is not easy. Induction is the only option for full batch boils. While not cheap, if you have 220 outlet in a convenient place, the induction cook top would be awesome.

It does however require an induction compatible pot. So aluminum is out. You'll need stainless or a stainless sandwich construction i believe. Consider a 3000w 220 burner such as this http://www.amazon.com/6530-ProChef-3000-Watt-Commercial-Induction/dp/B0037Z7HQ0 .There are a few threads surrounding this burner i think?

trout

 

[brewprint]

This is the pot that I have in the 50 quart model.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CONCORD-Pol...hash=item20fd189049:m:mpPuevxvxy2IzMuXj4gs9ow

The seller (Concord) said that it is induction compatible. I want to upgrade to the 20 gallon model and still continue to do no a sparge full volume mash.

It sounds like an induction burner is the way to fly.

I believe that the 3500 watt burner would be the best bang for the buck. Moving up to 5000 watts would begin to double the cost but would achieve a faster boil.

 

[McKnuckle]

As a fellow cheapskate and believer in the KISS principle, I believe you've reached the right conclusion.

I've been doing BIAB with a 1500W 120V element and a Hot Rod heat stick in an insulated 6 gallon aluminum kettle. For temperature control, I have a simple non-intelligent interval timer that switches the heat stick on for 10 seconds every 15 minutes (or any other interval - I've experimented to figure this out). The setup absolutely works and is dirt simple.

However, it's piss poor at boiling any more than 3.5 gallons. And you can't recirculate the mash. I've been doing 2-3 gallon batches with this setup indoors, saving my outdoor propane rig for bigger batches in nice weather.

I just bought an Avantco 3500W induction cooktop, and insulated one of my 8 gal More Beer stainless kettles. I got a cheap US Solar pump as well to recirc the mash. Electrician is coming literally today to install a 220V outlet in my brew space! Can't wait. But I gave the simple/cheap system an honest go for a pretty long time, and can't complain. As long as you have reasonable expectations, you will be fine.

 

[brewprint]

As a fellow cheapskate and believer in the KISS principle, I believe you've reached the right conclusion.

I've been doing BIAB with a 1500W 120V element and a Hot Rod heat stick in an insulated 6 gallon aluminum kettle. For temperature control, I have a simple non-intelligent interval timer that switches the heat stick on for 10 seconds every 15 minutes (or any other interval - I've experimented to figure this out). The setup absolutely works and is dirt simple.

However, it's piss poor at boiling any more than 3.5 gallons. And you can't recirculate the mash. I've been doing 2-3 gallon batches with this setup indoors, saving my outdoor propane rig for bigger batches in nice weather.

I just bought an Avantco 3500W induction cooktop, and insulated one of my 8 gal More Beer stainless kettles. I got a cheap US Solar pump as well to recirc the mash. Electrician is coming literally today to install a 220V outlet in my brew space! Can't wait. But I gave the simple/cheap system an honest go for a pretty long time, and can't complain. As long as you have reasonable expectations, you will be fine.

Report your success back!

How much do you think he's going to charge to install that 220 plug?

 

[MrShake]

The obvious answer to me is to put a water heater element in your kettle. Its not hard to do, and its inexpensive. From there its up to you how you want to proceed. Be it a PID or something more advanced like a BrewTroller to set and control temps and such.

 

[brewprint]

The obvious answer to me is to put a water heater element in your kettle. Its not hard to do, and its inexpensive. From there its up to you how you want to proceed. Be it a PID or something more advanced like a BrewTroller to set and control temps and such.

I don't see how that is practical for my application. I brew outside sometimes and to maintain a mash temp when it's <30F is near impossible for 1 hour. That would surely melt/rip my bag.

 

[MrShake]

I don't see how that is practical for my application. I brew outside sometimes and to maintain a mash temp when it's <30F is near impossible for 1 hour. That would surely melt/rip my bag.

Certainly not. An immersed element will not melt or rip a bag. I use nylon paint strainer bags as hop bags for EVERY brew. Not a scorch, melt, or rip on them.

 

[brewprint]

Certainly not. An immersed element will not melt or rip a bag. I use nylon paint strainer bags as hop bags for EVERY brew. Not a scorch, melt, or rip on them.

That's a little different than a giant bag laying over the entire element. At least that's how I see it.

I also use hop bags during the boil but I make sure that they don't touch the bottom of the pot where the direct heat is either.

 

[MrShake]

That's a little different than a giant bag laying over the entire element. At least that's how I see it.

I also use hop bags during the boil but I make sure that they don't touch the bottom of the pot where the direct heat is either.

I've also used BIAB bags and have friends who do the same thing. My hop bags sit ON the element. I can assure you there is NO ISSUE with a bag sitting on the element. The surface of the element will not be much higher than the boiling water around it. Those elements are very efficient at transferring energy to the water around it. They are not just red hot glowing sticks of metal sitting at a thousand degrees in the water.

 

[MrShake]

Also note, there are plenty of BIAB brewers using elements like this in their electric rigs. If you can get the element mounted low enough, you could put a false bottom over the top if your that worried about it. Or suspend your bag so the entire weight of the bag isn't pressing on it... but its very dooable, and burning/melting the bag is not really a concern.

 

[Snicklefritz]

As a fellow cheapskate and believer in the KISS principle, I believe you've reached the right conclusion.

I've been doing BIAB with a 1500W 120V element and a Hot Rod heat stick in an insulated 6 gallon aluminum kettle. For temperature control, I have a simple non-intelligent interval timer that switches the heat stick on for 10 seconds every 15 minutes (or any other interval - I've experimented to figure this out). The setup absolutely works and is dirt simple.

However, it's piss poor at boiling any more than 3.5 gallons. And you can't recirculate the mash. I've been doing 2-3 gallon batches with this setup indoors, saving my outdoor propane rig for bigger batches in nice weather.

I just bought an Avantco 3500W induction cooktop, and insulated one of my 8 gal More Beer stainless kettles. I got a cheap US Solar pump as well to recirc the mash. Electrician is coming literally today to install a 220V outlet in my brew space! Can't wait. But I gave the simple/cheap system an honest go for a pretty long time, and can't complain. As long as you have reasonable expectations, you will be fine.

Are you sure that kettle will work with the induction burner? Not all will.

 

[brewprint]

Also note, there are plenty of BIAB brewers using elements like this in their electric rigs. If you can get the element mounted low enough, you could put a false bottom over the top if your that worried about it. Or suspend your bag so the entire weight of the bag isn't pressing on it... but its very dooable, and burning/melting the bag is not really a concern.

That is definitely an option. I didn't realize this.

 

[TexasWine]

That is definitely an option. I didn't realize this.

Yup, that's what lot of us do. I use the steamer basket in my kettle with a pump and a controller to maintain mash temps. 2 x 1500 watt elements and I'm on standard 120v, 15 amp outlets.

I didn't suggest a false bottom (or basket) because you said you had no plans for a false bottom.

View attachment 1454613229577.jpg

View attachment 1454613249845.jpg

 

[MrShake]

That is definitely an option. I didn't realize this.

I totally get why you would be concerned. Basic logic tell me that the element should be red hot... I thought the same thing until I started using and understanding this!

 

[brewprint]

Yup, that's what lot of us do. I use the steamer basket in my kettle with a pump and a controller to maintain mash temps. 2 x 1500 watt elements and I'm on standard 120v, 15 amp outlets.

I didn't suggest a false bottom (or basket) because you said you had no plans for a false bottom.

I'm not really interested in doing a false bottom.

How much cash do you have wrapped up in those elements and pump? Also I'm assuming that the controller is a bunch more cash?

How fast can you achieve a boil with the two 1500 watt elements with 7 gallons of wort?

 

[TexasWine]

I'm not really interested in doing a false bottom.

How much cash do you have wrapped up in those elements and pump? Also I'm assuming that the controller is a bunch more cash?

How fast can you achieve a boil with the two 1500 watt elements with 7 gallons of wort?

Got my entire set up from Brau Supply for ~$650. Came with everything I needed, minus a chiller. Not sure he still sells the exact controller I have (15 amp PID controller). But he does offer a system with a 15 amp Ranco based controller for $565. Pretty good deal if you ask me.

I can heat at about 3 degrees per minute.

 

[McKnuckle]

Are you sure that kettle will work with the induction burner? Not all will.

Yes, it works fine. I got my Avantco the other day and have conducted (pun!) several boil-off tests. I'll be brewing on it for the first time this weekend. The 8 gallon heavy duty SS pot from More Beer works great with it.

To answer another question in the thread, my electrician charged $350 to reconfigure my panel and run a 220V line/outlet to my workshop. If that seems high to you, I'm in N. NJ, a high cost of living area.

 

[BeardedBrews]

I eBIAB, with the bag and 12-15# of grain sitting directly on a 5500w straight fold-back element. During the mash I keep the power at 3-5% and hold temperature steady, while I recirculate with my pump. No burning. Every 10-15 minutes I open the top and give everything a good stir. No tears.

I wouldn't ever go back to gas, but electric it isn't for everyone.

Gas is the cheapest and easiest option for heat, with the fewest drawbacks. It's cheaper to add a PID to gas, you have fewer considerations in your kettle with gas, it's easier to clean up, it is generally easier to move your brew location around with gas.

Electric is easier to use indoors, it is quiet, and your electric tank doesn't run empty in the middle of a boil. Using an induction plate has these same advantages, and makes your kettle less complicated, but as you've discovered, an equal power plate isn't cheap.

 

[brewprint]

Lots of great options available.

With the cost of these different systems I'm still drawn back to the induction burner.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B016Y1CZIS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

For $370 I have all I need.

TexasWine that is an awesome setup but I'm not sure that's what I want. I'd like more power to do 10 gallon batches.

 

[Bobby_M]

A 5500 watt element installed in the pot with a dirt cheap steamer rack over it to hold the bag off is a viable solution that hundreds of people have success with (I'm only one of them). Yes, you need that much juice to boil 10 gallons without waiting a while.

Yes, you need a PID controller.
You don't HAVE to recirculate with a pump but it allows you to walk away for the whole mash. While not as good, you can also insulate really well and simply let the PID hold the wort under the bag to your desired temp which will delay overall temp collapse.

Many people want to convert to very raw hands-on processes with electric to basically mimick a propane brew but it makes me cringe a little due to how easy and relatively inexpensive it is to just inch a little closer to basic temp automation. It really is great bang for the buck.

 

[cod3ck]

Lots of great options available.



With the cost of these different systems I'm still drawn back to the induction burner.



http://www.amazon.com/dp/B016Y1CZIS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20



For $370 I have all I need.



TexasWine that is an awesome setup but I'm not sure that's what I want. I'd like more power to do 10 gallon batches.

10 gallon batches on that narrow induction burner? Or are you talking about an element option?