barleywine extract

[marcagio]

Hi there!

After my vacations I decided to stay off alcohol for 30 days and it's almost over! I kegged a nice raspberry wheat last week and started a batch of a light ale with saffale us-05 which has been fermenting for a week now.

Last night I bought a part mash kit for a barleywine from my supplier, It's a "best case" from "noble grapes" called "zz-tod's barleywine".

It's got a real big load of LME and a big bag of grains (crystal, amber and roasted barley)

(I can't remember the boil hops) with cascade for flavor and finish (Why the hell would I add finish hops for a beer made for ageing?).

anyway, the recipe calls for a single package of nottingham and I shouldn't have any problems fermenting this to 9% in 2 weeks?... Reading about barleywines in forums tells me it can't be that easy so I want YOUR OPINION.

Should I clean my fermenter and follow the instructions or should I transfer my light ale in a carboy and keep the cake of this saffale us-05 and throw in my brew with the nottingham?

 

[urg8rb8]

Hi there!

After my vacations I decided to stay off alcohol for 30 days and it's almost over! I kegged a nice raspberry wheat last week and started a batch of a light ale with saffale us-05 which has been fermenting for a week now.

Last night I bought a part mash kit for a barleywine from my supplier, It's a "best case" from "noble grapes" called "zz-tod's barleywine".

It's got a real big load of LME and a big bag of grains (crystal, amber and roasted barley)

(I can't remember the boil hops) with cascade for flavor and finish (Why the hell would I add finish hops for a beer made for ageing?).

anyway, the recipe calls for a single package of nottingham and I shouldn't have any problems fermenting this to 9% in 2 weeks?... Reading about barleywines in forums tells me it can't be that easy so I want YOUR OPINION.

Should I clean my fermenter and follow the instructions or should I transfer my light ale in a carboy and keep the cake of this saffale us-05 and throw in my brew with the nottingham?

What's the expected OG of the barelywine?

 

[marcagio]

What's the expected OG of the barelywine?

The kit recipe doesn't tell but putting everything in Qbrew gives the following results :

Grains & Exctract :
13.23lbs light malt extract
0.44 lb Crystal 10L
0.77 lb Crystal 120L
0.66 lb Crisp Amber Malt

Hops :
Galena 2.5oz 30min
Cascade 0.71oz 8min
Cascade 2oz 1min

Misc :
Nottingham yeast
Irish moss (Not included in the kit but I use this **** in everything I brew)

OG : 1.111
IBU : 52
Color : 16
ABV : 10.8% (the recipe says approx 9%)

 

[urg8rb8]

I just brewed a 1.140 OG barleywine and I used three packets of rehydrated Nottingham. I don't think your calculator is correct when it says 10.8%. I'll have to plug it into beersmith tomorrow. My 1.143 calculated to around 16%.

 

[marcagio]

At this point, I don't really care to know what % it'll end up with, I just want to make sure that it will ferment properly without underpitching. I think a single pack of nottingham is not a lot and want to know if it would be a bad idea to pour my mash on top of an old cake. I've seen some people do it on youtube, forums, etc... But I don't know if I have a little bit of hops in there is a good thing... Since it's only a very light beer with a very little ammount of hops, I think that I have a lot of useful yeast cells at the bottom of this and it could be an interesting experiment. But I'd like to know from people who have experimented with that kind of stuff before.

I also think there could be sanitary risks as I'd be pouring on top of an old beer without sanitizing... but I think the risk is fairly small cause I'd empty it using the valve with the lid closed only removing my airlock, so the inside would stay fairly untouched until I throw in my mash...

 

[urg8rb8]

At this point, I don't really care to know what % it'll end up with, I just want to make sure that it will ferment properly without underpitching. I think a single pack of nottingham is not a lot and want to know if it would be a bad idea to pour my mash on top of an old cake. I've seen some people do it on youtube, forums, etc... But I don't know if I have a little bit of hops in there is a good thing... Since it's only a very light beer with a very little ammount of hops, I think that I have a lot of useful yeast cells at the bottom of this and it could be an interesting experiment. But I'd like to know from people who have experimented with that kind of stuff before.

I also think there could be sanitary risks as I'd be pouring on top of an old beer without sanitizing... but I think the risk is fairly small cause I'd empty it using the valve with the lid closed only removing my airlock, so the inside would stay fairly untouched until I throw in my mash...

Like I said, 1 packet of Nottingham is def not enough. You need at least two packets. At 1.14 OG, I needed 3 packets. So some of the things you want to consider if you're going to reuse a yeast cake: 1) residual flavors of the previous beer on that cake will change the flavor of the new one. 2) like you mentioned hop flavor might change, 3) people do this all the time (I have never done it), and don't have issues with infections.

I think the bottom line here is, it work fine if you use the same cake, but the flavors might change.

 

[marcagio]

I'll go with the cake then. The taste will change but it'll still be a barleywine and I think it's going to be awesome. I'll also add an ounce or two of oak cubes I guess.

 

[Calder]

Using a whole cake is generally considered a huge over-pitch, and you would normally remove about 2/3 rds of it. But, going from 5 gallons of a small beer to 5 gallons of 1.110 beer, it maybe suitable to use the whole cake.

Remove as much liquid as you can from the old beer, but don't worry if some is left. There will not be enough to affect the flavor of the new one. 1 pint diluted into 40 pints will not be noticed.

Any hops in the cake have already given up their flavors.

Use the same day. If you can't, then transfer to a sanitized container, and store in fridge.

You will probably need a blow-off.

 

[marcagio]

thanks, I didn't think about using a blow off but it's obvious that krausen will show up.

 

[urg8rb8]

thanks, I didn't think about using a blow off but it's obvious that krausen will show up.

let us know how it goes!

 

[marcagio]

The light ale has been in there for a week, I'll give it another week or two to settle so I can send it straight into my corny while brewing the barleywine. will keep you guys updated.

 

[urg8rb8]

Btw, I'm putting french oak chips and american cubes in my barleywine... I'm expecting it to be super good!

 

[marcagio]

Hey guys! here's an update and I'm very happy with the results.

Here's what I finaly did :

After emptying the light beer, I cleaned and sanitized a 1cup scoop and scooped 2 cups and a half of the trub/yeast/sediments at the bottom and kept it in a sanitized jar in the fridge. Then cleaned and sanitized the fermenter.

I brewed the barleywine, skipped the finishing hops, brought it down to perfect temp and pitched both the collected s05 from previous beer and the pack of nottingham : OG 1.090

One week passed

Yesterday I checked gravity and it was down at 1.020 and it smelled like a perfect blend of sweet and alcohol.

I had about 2oz of oak chips sitting in a jar of whiskey for 4 days. I poured the cubes and the whiskey (about 4.5 oz) at the bottom of a carboy and transferred the beer on top of that.

So far, everything looks and smells good.

 

[urg8rb8]

Great news! What type of chips did you use? Toast level? How long are you planning to keep it in the beer?

 

[marcagio]

Great news! What type of chips did you use? Toast level? How long are you planning to keep it in the beer?

I bought osk cubes from my hombrew supplies store. it doesn't say anything other than "oak cubes" on the package but I can say they look pretty dark so I guess they're toasted somewhere between medium and a lot. 2 weeks should be enough I guess?

 

[marcagio]

Great news! What type of chips did you use? Toast level? How long are you planning to keep it in the beer?

I bought osk cubes from my hombrew supplies store. it doesn't say anything other than "oak cubes" on the package but I can say they look pretty dark so I guess they're toasted somewhere between medium and a lot. 2 weeks should be enough I guess?

 

[urg8rb8]

I bought osk cubes from my hombrew supplies store. it doesn't say anything other than "oak cubes" on the package but I can say they look pretty dark so I guess they're toasted somewhere between medium and a lot. 2 weeks should be enough I guess?

It's the chips that brewers leave for only a week or two. Cubes, however, should be left for many weeks or months to take advantage of their depth. If you only want to oak for two weeks, I'd say don't waste the cubes and go buy chips instead. Use the cubes for another batch.

 

[marcagio]

I listened to you and waited a month before bottling half the batch and kegged the rest. I took a sample glass, the oak&whiskey is there, it's pretty close to what I was expecting. I took my sample after mixing the bottling sugar so it was kinda hard to tell cause I could taste the dextrose on top of the malts but it looks like it's going to kick @$$.