Bare minimum for water analysis/modification?

[O-Ale-Yeah]

I don't want to ignore water analysis and modification but I also don't want to spend $20 a few times per year to see a snapshot of how my water chemistries are at a given time and day and then balance that given time and day with modification knowledge (that I don't have) and chemicals (that I don't want to buy and use).

I'm not opposed to doing something to improve the chances that I'm not using bad water for brewing but if the alternative is to spend $20 for intermittent analysis and learn about additives for adjustment -I'm going to stick with being oblivious.

What solution allows for the minimum time, money, and effort to improve the chances of using good water for brewing?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Installing an RO unit under your sink.

 

[dmtaylor]

What solution allows for the minimum time, money, and effort to improve the chances of using good water for brewing?

1) Determine whether your water is chlorinated, or has any problems with iron or sulfur (i.e., it tastes bad).

2) If iron or sulfur, buy your water somewhere else. You can use a 50/50 mix of distilled/spring water for pretty much any style.

3) If chlorinated, remove chlorine by adding 1 crushed Campden tablet per 10 gallons.

4) Don't worry about anything else. The beer will turn out great without worrying about anything else.

 

[mongoose33]

RO water. I don't know where you're getting water analysis done for $20 a pop (please share with the rest of us), but if it changes that often, you have no idea in between analyses what you have anyway.

The water additions are not all that expensive, and they last a long time. Further, there are water spreadsheets that help you figure out what to add to the water, so you don't have to be a chemist to figure it out. Brunwater and EZWater are just two of them.

My last brew had a little gypsum (CaSO4), some calcium chloride (CaCL2), some epsom salt (MgSO4), and 3 ml of Lactic Acid. Generally it's about 6 grams or less of each, in some cases as with gypsum maybe just a gram or two. This for 8 gallons strike water, the calculators let you figure this all out.

From Ritebrew, 1 pound of Calcium Chloride is $2.69; 1 pound of Epsom Salts is $2.59; 1 pound of Gypsum is $1.59.

A 2-ounce bottle of Lactic Acid (88%) is $1.89. You can get plastic pipettes from Amazon or maybe your local farm store if you have one--or even an eyedropper if it's graduated in milliliters.

You might also want some pickling lime, baking soda, and (maybe) chalk to raise the pH; I've never needed to, but I don't brew stouts and such dark beers that require it.


So--you can get the necessary salts and such for the $20 you'd spend on an analysis. All you need then is RO water, which you can buy. Or you can get an RO system to make your own, which is not only cheaper but more convenient than schlepping 7 or 8 gallons of RO water from the store every time you brew.

I have sink in my garage; I bought an RO filter from Buckeye Hydro, connected it to the faucet with a hose adapter, and voila! RO water. I emptied it into a 7-gallon aquatainer and that's my source of RO water every time I brew.



I've since permanently installed the filter (which you see hanging on the wall) underneath the sink, and installed a line to feed it so I don't tie up the faucet. Originally I wanted to be able to take that filter in the house if the garage dropped to freezing temps, so it's portable. You could also mount it on a wooden stand and store it in a closet between uses.

Takes about 4-5 hours to get 7 gallons, depends on how warm the water is--warmer works faster. I fill my kettle with RO water then set it to filling again.

 

[Soulshine2]

I don't want to ignore water analysis and modification but I also don't want to spend $20 a few times per year to see a snapshot of how my water chemistries are at a given time and day and then balance that given time and day with modification knowledge (that I don't have) and chemicals (that I don't want to buy and use).

I'm not opposed to doing something to improve the chances that I'm not using bad water for brewing but if the alternative is to spend $20 for intermittent analysis and learn about additives for adjustment -I'm going to stick with being oblivious.

What solution allows for the minimum time, money, and effort to improve the chances of using good water for brewing?

sounds like me...from day to day whatever any analysis shows can and probably will change.
first question, is it well water or city water? whats the iron content?
Second, do you own a water softener ?
simple and cheapest answer...taste it .
Do you like it , does it have an off taste like chlorine or sulphur? Those are the first obvious reasons I wouldnt use tap water or would prompt me to at least run it through some sort of carbon or RO filter first. i dont get into water chemistry as much as a lot of brewers here do . I like my water out of the tap. So far, my beers have not exhibited any off tastes nor had any huge issues during fermentation as of yet.
I suppose you could go buy a simple water test kit at the hardware store . Simple vial you put your water in and add a drop of this or that and if theres something in it , it will react and show a certain color. Peace of mind ,if nothing else.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

If you're using municipal water you almost definitely need to use campden tablets to make sure the chlorine/chloramines are removed.

Beyond that you don't really need to sweat it, if your beer is turning out good. I got into it because I'm a nerd and like to sweat every detail. Maybe do a batch your normal way and then do a batch with RO or distilled water from the store, and see if there's a big difference. If the one with RO/distilled tastes better investigate further.

The salts aren't expensive. You can buy some gypsum and CaCl for pretty cheap which will last a long time and measure it with teaspoons if you really want to keep it simple. As others have said there are many water calculators on the internet that will calculate the numbers for you.

 

[MaxStout]

Buy bulk RO water from the store, or invest in an RO system (around $100). You can do the basics in additions to build your water, using only two easily-available salts (calcium chloride and gypsum) for a couple bucks at your LHBS. You are controlling what's in your brewing water and not guessing with tap water. Here is a good primer on water additions.

 

[McKnuckle]

Use distilled water from the grocery store ($0.99/gal or less).

Buy bags of calcium chloride, gypsum, and a box of baking soda.

Use one of the several water calculators and do the following:

1) Input your water volumes, grain bill, etc.
2) Input an equal amount of gypsum and CaCl until the Calcium estimate shows at least 50 ppm.
3) Now take a look at the estimated mash pH. If it is less than 5.2, input enough baking soda until it's at 5.3-5.4. If it is greater than 5.5, add acidulated malt to your grain bill until it drops to 5.3-5.4. Alternately, use lactic acid for that.

Brew.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Another suggestion, do some googling and see what reports your water company puts out there. I get an annual water quality report from them, which doesn't provide very much useful info related to brewing. But I was able to dig up a more detailed report they also post online, which they update with monthly readings and shows all the pertinent mineral levels I care about for brewing. I don't know how common that is from water companies but check it out, you may get lucky. You could also just call them, I've heard sometimes they're really helpful

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

Installing an RO unit under your sink.

Would I need to do anything special to the water after installing a reverse osmosis device?

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

1) Determine whether your water is chlorinated, or has any problems with iron or sulfur (i.e., it tastes bad).

2) If iron or sulfur, buy your water somewhere else. You can use a 50/50 mix of distilled/spring water for pretty much any style.

3) If chlorinated, remove chlorine by adding 1 crushed Campden tablet per 10 gallons.

4) Don't worry about anything else. The beer will turn out great without worrying about anything else.

This sounds like an excellent option. Thanks!

 

[maisch]

Water is fairly simple but made complex by all of the hoopla and calculators and BS.

If you're doing all-grain, read this guide:

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/beginners-guide-to-water-treatment.64822/

A salifert alkalinity test kit will suffice or even get a pH meter if you're that into it.

 

[mongoose33]

Would I need to do anything special to the water after installing a reverse osmosis device?

Other than add specific salts and such as recommended by a water calculator/spreadsheet, no.

The purpose of water additions is to help balance the mash pH in the desired range (depending on who you read, from 5.1-5.5, or 5.2-5.6), and to provide minerals that enhance flavor and hop presence.

 

[TheHopfather]

Would I need to do anything special to the water after installing a reverse osmosis device?

RO has basically everything removed from it, its very near pure water. You'll want to add salts back into it (gypsum & calcium chloride being the 2 most important salts). If you want to get fancy you plug the numbers into Bru'N Water or one of the online calculators. If you want to stick to the bare minimum you can follow the water primer and do additions with teaspoons. For pale beers you'll also need to add an acid (lactic is popular or acid malt).

It really isn't that difficult and it makes a big difference in the quality of the finished beer.

 

[IslandLizard]

If you're not on a private well, call your water company and ask for the minerals we brewers are interested in (Ca++, Mg++, Na+, Cl-, SO4--) as well as alkalinity and hardness.

Also ask about fluctuations from those numbers during the year or seasons. Your water may be very suitable for brewing the way it is, and stable over time.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Learning Water Chemistry is somewhere on my todo list. I have used tap water most of my time brewing, and when I had bad tap water (a well with a water softener) I used store bought and just added "what the book told me to add". I have copies of two different water analysis in my area, but one of them is many years old. They are close enough to give me a snapshot that my water is fairly soft...though I don't really understand the numbers very well.

I do know that my water is treated with chloramines so I use campden tablets. I did a test batch a month or so ago mostly to get some rates for brewing stovetop batches. I planned to dump it so I did not treat the water, but I ended up letting it ferment out. It has a nasty bandaid characteristic that I have to think is from the chloramines. (It could also be from the grains, which were an odd mix of old stuff that were waiting to be added to my compost bit.)

That said, I think I brew some very good beers that are on par with the best commercial beers (edit: on par with decent craft beers). Could they be better with water treatments? Could I get better body in my stouts or more hop crispness in my IPAs? I don't know...yet.

 

[GnenieGone]

I'm a lucky one and have RO kiosk 3min away. $2/5gal. Tried the RO under the sink thing but it's like 100gal of tap for 1gal RO and filters were over the top expensive.

Get some gypsum, Calcium Chloride and lactic acid from your LHBS. I Basicly add .75tsp gypsum and 1tsp Calcium Chloride to a 5.5gal strike. If it's light grains (ipa/pa), 1.5ml LA to get PH down to the 5.3 mark. Same goes for sparge 5.5gal sparge. I omit Lactic acid with darker beers.

You can make it simple or overly academic and still end up with awesome beer. Choice is yours. I use Brew'n Water and dont need to anymore since I noticed a pattern and I like my beers smoother. If you like them with a drier crisp feel, reverse the gypsum/Calcium Chroide.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I will also throw in this link to a stickied thread on the Brew Science forum: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/a-brewing-water-chemistry-primer.198460/

The first post is a simplified view on water treatment from somebody that seems to know what they are talking about. Then there are 40 pages of followup. I only got through the first 2 or 3 pages, so I don't know if the recent post are all "wow this is great and easy!" or "this advice is total crap". Anybody following that thread that can summarize the current state of the advice?

 

[mullet6577]

I will also throw in this link to a stickied thread on the Brew Science forum: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/a-brewing-water-chemistry-primer.198460/

The first post is a simplified view on water treatment from somebody that seems to know what they are talking about. Then there are 40 pages of followup. I only got through the first 2 or 3 pages, so I don't know if the recent post are all "wow this is great and easy!" or "this advice is total crap". Anybody following that thread that can summarize the current state of the advice?

On the (currently) last page/post #1566, it's suggested that the salt additions are more leaning to about half the quantity listed in the first post these days.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...-chemistry-primer.198460/page-40#post-8454299

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

RO water. I don't know where you're getting water analysis done for $20 a pop (please share with the rest of us), but if it changes that often, you have no idea in between analyses what you have anyway.

The water additions are not all that expensive, and they last a long time. Further, there are water spreadsheets that help you figure out what to add to the water, so you don't have to be a chemist to figure it out. Brunwater and EZWater are just two of them.

My last brew had a little gypsum (CaSO4), some calcium chloride (CaCL2), some epsom salt (MgSO4), and 3 ml of Lactic Acid. Generally it's about 6 grams or less of each, in some cases as with gypsum maybe just a gram or two. This for 8 gallons strike water, the calculators let you figure this all out.

From Ritebrew, 1 pound of Calcium Chloride is $2.69; 1 pound of Epsom Salts is $2.59; 1 pound of Gypsum is $1.59.

A 2-ounce bottle of Lactic Acid (88%) is $1.89. You can get plastic pipettes from Amazon or maybe your local farm store if you have one--or even an eyedropper if it's graduated in milliliters.

You might also want some pickling lime, baking soda, and (maybe) chalk to raise the pH; I've never needed to, but I don't brew stouts and such dark beers that require it.


So--you can get the necessary salts and such for the $20 you'd spend on an analysis. All you need then is RO water, which you can buy. Or you can get an RO system to make your own, which is not only cheaper but more convenient than schlepping 7 or 8 gallons of RO water from the store every time you brew.

I have sink in my garage; I bought an RO filter from Buckeye Hydro, connected it to the faucet with a hose adapter, and voila! RO water. I emptied it into a 7-gallon aquatainer and that's my source of RO water every time I brew.

View attachment 607653 View attachment 607654

I've since permanently installed the filter (which you see hanging on the wall) underneath the sink, and installed a line to feed it so I don't tie up the faucet. Originally I wanted to be able to take that filter in the house if the garage dropped to freezing temps, so it's portable. You could also mount it on a wooden stand and store it in a closet between uses.

Takes about 4-5 hours to get 7 gallons, depends on how warm the water is--warmer works faster. I fill my kettle with RO water then set it to filling again.

Thanks Mongoose, I may tackle something like that in the distant future.

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

sounds like me...from day to day whatever any analysis shows can and probably will change.
first question, is it well water or city water? whats the iron content?
Second, do you own a water softener ?
simple and cheapest answer...taste it .
Do you like it , does it have an off taste like chlorine or sulphur? Those are the first obvious reasons I wouldnt use tap water or would prompt me to at least run it through some sort of carbon or RO filter first. i dont get into water chemistry as much as a lot of brewers here do . I like my water out of the tap. So far, my beers have not exhibited any off tastes nor had any huge issues during fermentation as of yet.
I suppose you could go buy a simple water test kit at the hardware store . Simple vial you put your water in and add a drop of this or that and if theres something in it , it will react and show a certain color. Peace of mind ,if nothing else.

It's city tap water with no filter. Thanks, I'll take a look at the hardware store to see if they something that checks for the bigger issues.

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

If you're using municipal water you almost definitely need to use campden tablets to make sure the chlorine/chloramines are removed.

Beyond that you don't really need to sweat it, if your beer is turning out good. I got into it because I'm a nerd and like to sweat every detail. Maybe do a batch your normal way and then do a batch with RO or distilled water from the store, and see if there's a big difference. If the one with RO/distilled tastes better investigate further.

The salts aren't expensive. You can buy some gypsum and CaCl for pretty cheap which will last a long time and measure it with teaspoons if you really want to keep it simple. As others have said there are many water calculators on the internet that will calculate the numbers for you.

Ok so maybe pay for a test once and use the tablets for every brew if the test shows chlorine? I could do that .

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

Buy bulk RO water from the store, or invest in an RO system (around $100). You can do the basics in additions to build your water, using only two easily-available salts (calcium chloride and gypsum) for a couple bucks at your LHBS. You are controlling what's in your brewing water and not guessing with tap water. Here is a good primer on water additions.

That sounds easy, $100 for a filter and then toss in the same measure of 2 additives each brew? That is something I could go for.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Ok so maybe pay for a test once and use the tablets for every brew if the test shows chlorine? I could do that .

You should be able to get a water quality report from your water provider. The one that my local water company puts out (it is on their web site) does not have the detail on minerals for brewing, but I think they should at least mention the type of disinfectant that they use. If not, I am sure you can call them and ask. Chlorine will gas off by letting the water sit overnight, but Chloramine (which I believe is very common because it does not gas out and is more stable) requires a good filter or Campden. My understanding is that Campden will remove both Chloramine and Chlorine.

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

Another suggestion, do some googling and see what reports your water company puts out there. I get an annual water quality report from them, which doesn't provide very much useful info related to brewing. But I was able to dig up a more detailed report they also post online, which they update with monthly readings and shows all the pertinent mineral levels I care about for brewing. I don't know how common that is from water companies but check it out, you may get lucky. You could also just call them, I've heard sometimes they're really helpful

Thanks, I looked online but couldn't find anything. IllI definitely give them a call.

 

[MaxStout]

That sounds easy, $100 for a filter and then toss in the same measure of 2 additives each brew? That is something I could go for.

If you're interested in a good RO system, Buckeye Hydro has excellent gear. I have a 75 gallon per day "Premium RO" system and it's worked great. Russ is very knowledgeable and can help you get the right system.

 

[WaltG]

Most of those 35 cent/gallon dispensers at stores are RO.

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

I found a report on my local water.

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

I found a 2017 water report for my local water with a little more detail.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I found a 2017 water report for my local water with a little more detail.

You shouldn't have much trouble brewing with that water. You will only need to address the alkalinity. The rest looks pretty good to me.

 

[dmtaylor]

Looks like pretty hard water, but not terrible. Mine here is much the same. Good for deep amber to black color beers. Needs augmentation with distilled for many light color beers.

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

Looks like pretty hard water, but not terrible. Mine here is much the same. Good for deep amber to black color beers. Needs augmentation with distilled for many light color beers.

Oh, thanks, so I may be safe to skip the modifications?

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

You shouldn't have much trouble brewing with that water. You will only need to address the alkalinity. The rest looks pretty good to me.

Ok, great! What do I do?

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

I know it was mentioned, but is this always the case, city water is to basic for brewing? So, bare minimum, I need to add a crushed campden tablet and use a water calculator to see how much lactic acid I need to add?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Ok, great! What do I do?

It rather highly variably depends upon your recipe, its grist weight, your intended mineralization, and how much water you intend to mash it in.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I know it was mentioned, but is this always the case, city water is to basic for brewing? So, bare minimum, I need to add a crushed campden tablet and use a water calculator to see how much lactic acid I need to add?

It's not a matter of the water being basic (which is highly irrelevant), but rather it is a matter of your waters alkalinity.

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

It's not a matter of the water being basic (which is highly irrelevant), but rather it is a matter of your waters alkalinity.

Oh, dang, I thought basic and alkaline were the same thing...

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Oh, dang, I thought basic and alkaline were the same thing...

They are not. At pH 7.2, my well water is quite close to pH neutral, but it has 436 ppm alkalinity.

 

[mongoose33]

It rather highly variably depends upon your recipe, its grist weight, your intended mineralization, and how much water you intend to mash it in.

I'm quoting this just so it appears twice.

Several variables interact in all this, as S-I-M says, the recipe, grain weight, what you're aiming for, how much water you're going to use, and what's in that water to begin with.

The water calculators let you put in the details of your water as a place to start. Then you can define how much would be that water and how much would be RO water. As an example, I almost always use 1 gallon of my tap water (which is very hard/alkaline), then the rest is RO water.

Grain differs as to its inherent acidity. What helped me understand water was learning why certain styles of beer are associated with certain regions. In the UK, where the water is often very hard, the only way pH could be brought down to acceptable levels was to use very dark (acidic) grain. Think stouts and porters.

Why is Pilsen known for light lagers? Their water is soft, and thus only light malts would work in not bringing down the pH too far.

In other words, traditional brewing had to account for the local water, and only certain recipes worked well with that water. This was back in the day before people understood things like pH and such.

So if you have a lot of dark malt in your recipe, you need alkalinity to balance that (or the other way around depending on how you think of it). If it's a light recipe (light lager, say), then that alkalinity is not your friend, thus people turn to RO water.

My local water is really only suitable, as-is, for brewing stouts. Anything lighter and I'm cutting it with RO water to reduce the alkalinity. And mostly cutting it a lot.

 

[IslandLizard]

In layman's terms alkalinity is buffering capacity, the ability to resist change in pH. By adding acid the alkalinity is neutralized so you can achieve your mash, kettle, and fermentation pH range. Sparge water alkalinity (and thus pH) is especially of interest as high pH (over 5.8) may extract tannins.