Bare minimum for water analysis/modification?

[IslandLizard]

I found a report on my local water.

Where did you dig that up?
Also the differences between the 2018 and 2017 reports suggests there are some variables at play, while some minerals aren't reported. I looked at Alkalinity and Sodium.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Oh, dang, I thought basic and alkaline were the same thing...

I did too! If you look up the definition of Alkaline, one of them is "having a pH greater than 7".

This article which seems to be at a Chemistry 101 level reminds me how I can just not understand the basics of chemistry/organic chemistry: https://sciencing.com/alkaline-vs-basic-6132782.html

 

[CascadesBrewer]

What helped me understand water was learning why certain styles of beer are associated with certain regions. In the UK, where the water is often very hard, the only way pH could be brought down to acceptable levels was to use very dark (acidic) grain. Think stouts and porters.

I have never put much weight into this logic. There are 100 reasons that brewers might brew darker beers in a place like the UK. I suspect that the type of grain they could grow and their malting technology had much more impact than water. It could be because people enjoy more stout beers during the cool overcast winter, so brewers made that type of beer since that is what paid the bills. I am not going to rush out and model my water after San Francisco just because some breweries in the area made good IPAs there.

That is one thing that has kept me away from water chemistry. There is too much advice on "make your water profile match Burton-on-Trent/Pilsen/etc." and not enough advice on why I should do that and what the basic science behind how chemicals impact my beer's flavor.

 

[bracconiere]

Would I need to do anything special to the water after installing a reverse osmosis device?

if your willing to shell out for a RO, just buy a ph meter?

 

[mongoose33]

I have never put much weight into this logic. There are 100 reasons that brewers might brew darker beers in a place like the UK. I suspect that the type of grain they could grow and their malting technology had much more impact than water. It could be because people enjoy more stout beers during the cool overcast winter, so brewers made that type of beer since that is what paid the bills. I am not going to rush out and model my water after San Francisco just because some breweries in the area made good IPAs there.

That is one thing that has kept me away from water chemistry. There is too much advice on "make your water profile match Burton-on-Trent/Pilsen/etc." and not enough advice on why I should do that and what the basic science behind how chemicals impact my beer's flavor.

I may have miscommunicated. I am not saying anyone should model their water after anything. Rather, certain beer styles emerged in certain parts of the world because the water lent itself to certain styles. If you don't understand how different malts affect the resulting pH of the water, and how different malts are required to drop the pH into the proper zone (before people understood what was going on), then my example isn't going to make much sense to you.

Since there are things that, in your words, have "kept me away from water chemistry," I'm a little surprised that you'd hold any opinion on this at all.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I'm a little surprised that you'd hold any opinion on this at all.

I just know enough about logic to know that just because Belgian's brewed a low abv beer with the grains they had on hand and fermented with the local yeast so field workers had something to drink during the day does not mean "the water profile in Belgium 400 years ago is the best water to brew a Saison".

I just picked up Palmer's "How to Brew" partially for the chapters on water. I have only skimmed them so far, but they seem very good as far as how water chemistry impacts the mash and about adjusting water chemistry for style. He has a section "The Dogma of Virgin Water" that talks about the topic of famous water profiles.

In order to brew a great example of a classic style, you need to understand how the local water may have played a part in creating the style, but also understand what may have been done in spite of it.​

I just feel like there is way too much info on there on how many grams of X to add to make your water match the water of Pilsen for a Pilsner, and not enough about the current understanding of how water chemistry impacts the flavor of beer and how I would tweak the individual variables to get the beer profile that I want.

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

Where did you dig that up?
Also the differences between the 2018 and 2017 reports suggests there are some variables at play, while some minerals aren't reported. I looked at Alkalinity and Sodium.

I googled "Olathe City Water Report" and set the search to 12 months prior and bam, there it was, second link.

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

I'm quoting this just so it appears twice.

Several variables interact in all this, as S-I-M says, the recipe, grain weight, what you're aiming for, how much water you're going to use, and what's in that water to begin with.

The water calculators let you put in the details of your water as a place to start. Then you can define how much would be that water and how much would be RO water. As an example, I almost always use 1 gallon of my tap water (which is very hard/alkaline), then the rest is RO water.

Grain differs as to its inherent acidity. What helped me understand water was learning why certain styles of beer are associated with certain regions. In the UK, where the water is often very hard, the only way pH could be brought down to acceptable levels was to use very dark (acidic) grain. Think stouts and porters.

Why is Pilsen known for light lagers? Their water is soft, and thus only light malts would work in not bringing down the pH too far.

In other words, traditional brewing had to account for the local water, and only certain recipes worked well with that water. This was back in the day before people understood things like pH and such.

So if you have a lot of dark malt in your recipe, you need alkalinity to balance that (or the other way around depending on how you think of it). If it's a light recipe (light lager, say), then that alkalinity is not your friend, thus people turn to RO water.

My local water is really only suitable, as-is, for brewing stouts. Anything lighter and I'm cutting it with RO water to reduce the alkalinity. And mostly cutting it a lot.

I didn't think about the grist changing my pH. Okay, I'm actually going to have to plug my recipe into the calculator and see what kind of adjustments it recommends.

 

[Soulshine2]

It's city tap water with no filter. Thanks, I'll take a look at the hardware store to see if they something that checks for the bigger issues.

if you at least run your tap water through an RV style carbon filter...I'm looking into that myself.
I also am looking to small batch something with SmartWater...my wife buys this and its really the best bottled water Ive ever tasted. I've had bottled water from Aldi, tastes like garden hose water, and extremely hard or like it came out of an iron pipe. I read the "ingredient "panel on the SmartWater,they add the same things a brewer would. Might be worth a try. Its almost $1 /liter but I would rather buy this instead of distilled and add salts and minerals...probably more cost effective.
https://www.drinksmartwater.com/?gc...MIn8jQwZSO4AIVyJCfCh3EuQYYEAAYASAAEgL_KfD_BwE

 

[Soulshine2]

I didn't think about the grist changing my pH. Okay, I'm actually going to have to plug my recipe into the calculator and see what kind of adjustments it recommends.

this is correct. Before you mess with water too much , remember that anything you add ,including the grist, with affect pH in some way. I quote Papazians Joy of Home Brewing a lot

I have never put much weight into this logic. There are 100 reasons that brewers might brew darker beers in a place like the UK. I suspect that the type of grain they could grow and their malting technology had much more impact than water. It could be because people enjoy more stout beers during the cool overcast winter, so brewers made that type of beer since that is what paid the bills. I am not going to rush out and model my water after San Francisco just because some breweries in the area made good IPAs there.

That is one thing that has kept me away from water chemistry. There is too much advice on "make your water profile match Burton-on-Trent/Pilsen/etc." and not enough advice on why I should do that and what the basic science behind how chemicals impact my beer's flavor.

I put water chemistry breakdown of a certain region in the same basic category of brewing beer by the season,I'm just just generalizing.
Way back when , they brewed according to the season and what yeast worked at the particular temperature they had ...They lagered in caves which if you know a simple spelunkering fact, caves generally stay 53*F (+/- 2*F) all year round. This was their refrigeration of sorts, they at least knew it would be constant year round. So , they used yeasts that would work best in that temperature range.
Maerzens were brewed in March ,(Maerzen is German for March) hence the name, then lagered in caves until fall.

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

if you at least run your tap water through an RV style carbon filter...I'm looking into that myself.
I also am looking to small batch something with SmartWater...my wife buys this and its really the best bottled water Ive ever tasted. I've had bottled water from Aldi, tastes like garden hose water, and extremely hard or like it came out of an iron pipe. I read the "ingredient "panel on the SmartWater,they add the same things a brewer would. Might be worth a try. Its almost $1 /liter but I would rather buy this instead of distilled and add salts and minerals...probably more cost effective.
https://www.drinksmartwater.com/?gc...MIn8jQwZSO4AIVyJCfCh3EuQYYEAAYASAAEgL_KfD_BwE

That sounds easy. I need to go with easy until a future date when I can devote more time,,,,. Like when I'm 70.

 

[IslandLizard]

if you at least run your tap water through an RV style carbon filter...I'm looking into that myself.

That's not gonna do much for his water! It can barely remove chlorine, even if trickled through.

drinksmartwater.com

I consider that sucker territory. Hyped up claims of proprietary systems with proprietary supplies...
And useless for most brewing water.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I just feel like there is way too much info on there on how many grams of X to add to make your water match the water of Pilsen for a Pilsner, and not enough about the current understanding of how water chemistry impacts the flavor of beer and how I would tweak the individual variables to get the beer profile that I want.

I don't know where you're reading up on water stuff but almost everything I've read on this site(which is a lot) gets really deep into the actual chemistry of it and how to achieve certain taste characteristics. Not mimicking certain regions water. Mongoose's comment is just illustrating how understanding why certain places brewed certain beers historically may help you understand exactly what those minerals do to beer. The information you want is out there, you just have to look

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I don't know where you're reading up on water stuff but almost everything I've read on this site(which is a lot) gets really deep into the actual chemistry of it and how to achieve certain taste characteristics. Not mimicking certain regions water. Mongoose's comment is just illustrating how understanding why certain places brewed certain beers historically may help you understand exactly what those minerals do to beer. The information you want is out there, you just have to look

I will say that the water chapters on "How to Brew" are the most understandable reading I have found on the topic (though I am still a bit confused on the mash pH side). I have started to gain a basic understanding of my local water and some strategies to move forward based on "How to Brew" and the info from the sticky thread on water chemistry in the Brew Science.

I plan on doing some side by side comparisons, but for now my basic strategy is something like 0.3 g/gal of Calcium Chloride as a baseline. 0.4 to 0.8 g/gal of Gypsum for hoppy beers...and likely more Calcium Chloride for some styles. I might need to dilute my water to get the ideal range for "soft water" beers, but I don't brew many in that category.

I have been playing with Brun-Water and it seems to say that adding acid or acidic malt pushes my mash pH too low. I am not sure I want to invest in a pH meter, but maybe I can borrow one.

My first baby steps were to add 1 gram of calcium chloride to a 2.5 gal batch of stout I brewed today!

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I will say that the water chapters on "How to Brew" are the most understandable reading I have found on the topic (though I am still a bit confused on the mash pH side). I have started to gain a basic understanding of my local water and some strategies to move forward based on "How to Brew" and the info from the sticky thread on water chemistry in the Brew Science.

I plan on doing some side by side comparisons, but for now my basic strategy is something like 0.3 g/gal of Calcium Chloride as a baseline. 0.4 to 0.8 g/gal of Gypsum for hoppy beers...and likely more Calcium Chloride for some styles. I might need to dilute my water to get the ideal range for "soft water" beers, but I don't brew many in that category.

I have been playing with Brun-Water and it seems to say that adding acid or acidic malt pushes my mash pH too low. I am not sure I want to invest in a pH meter, but maybe I can borrow one.

My first baby steps were to add 1 gram of calcium chloride to a 2.5 gal batch of stout I brewed today!

I think experimentation is the way to go, especially since everyone's taste preferences are different. I've learned a lot about the science of what these minerals do but I still don't know what my ideal profile is, for my tastes at least.

For whatever reason I found Brun-water's ph estimate was always lower than my actual readings, and also lower than other water software's estimate. Which makes me wary of just trusting any of their ph numbers. You don't have to invest a lot to start out if you want to monitor ph. I bought a cheapo $10 meter on amazon and some calibration solution. I know some say the cheap ones stink, but I think it's better than nothing if it's calibrated it every time. Even if it's not 100% accurate it should give me a ballpark of where I'm at. I have to add acid to my water to get the ph down into the 5.2-5.6 range.