Bar Build Part 2: 8-tap Through-the-Wall Keezer

[max384]

One word of warning - since you're not using a regulator for each keg, you will need to do the following when you add a keg if they are quite full, even with a gas-in short stem:

1) Shut off all 8 valves
2) Put new keg in place, burp the keg down to almost 0 PSI
3) Attach new keg to gas line
4) Turn on gas line on new keg, and let it pressurize
5) Reopen the other 7 valves.

HTSC

Each of the shutoffs on both manifolds have built-in check valves, so this isn't an issue for me, thankfully. On my last four-tap kegerator, I was using the same manifold with no issues.

Thanks for the advice though. Great advice if the manifold doesn't have check valves, or there aren't check valves installed in-line.

 

[max384]

If you need better conduction from the taps to the cooled tubing, considering making "bridges" of aluminum foil. Aluminum is a stellar heat conductor and will pull heat out of the taps to the liquid heat-sink pretty well, I would imagine. The shorter, the better, of course.

Post again if you run into issues. (It will help me avoid pitfalls when I take on a project like this...)

Thanks for the thread!

I'll let you know once I get some beers on tap if I have any issues. Foil is a good idea... Though I'll probably use copper foil, since it will conduct heat a bit better.

Cooling the lines to the wall is neat and all, but I think a bit overkill. I run my bev tubing inside copper plumbing to the shank, and then the other end into my kegerator coiled with an extra foot. I then wrap insulation around the copper tubing between kegerator and wall. The copper tubing inside the kegerator conducts the cold all the way to the shank, and presto, chilled lines with no fan or cooling needed.

I'd rather overkill than underkill any day of the week! A new thread about foamy first pours from towers that aren't properly cooled pops up here all the time. I figured if I was going to build one, I was going to ensure my lines stayed cool. If I over-engineer it a bit, so be it.

Awesome build! It looks like we have almost the same chest freezer, similar to my build but I went the easy route with the taps..

Looks good.

 

[freisste]

...I'll probably use copper foil, since it will conduct heat a bit better.

About twice as well, IIRC. Although I doubt the performance difference would warrant the cost difference.

Any concern about getting the taps too cool and having them condense water out of the basement air?

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Each of the shutoffs on both manifolds have built-in check valves, so this isn't an issue for me, thankfully. On my last four-tap kegerator, I was using the same manifold with no issues.

Thanks for the advice though. Great advice if the manifold doesn't have check valves, or there aren't check valves installed in-line.

I've had flow-back when using a manifold, even with check vales. Usually when the pressure is very close to each other but not quite. The pressure isn't great enough to close the check valve, and beer can flow back. It's happened to me I assure you.

I moved to a 6-gang pressure regulator set, no more problems.

MC

 

[max384]

About twice as well, IIRC. Although I doubt the performance difference would warrant the cost difference.

Any concern about getting the taps too cool and having them condense water out of the basement air?

Copper foil runs about $20 bucks for more than I'll use in a lifetime. WAY more expensive than aluminum, but a small cost in the long run. Either way, thanks for the suggestion of using foil to bridge to the shanks/lines.

So far so good. Some of the shanks are touching the cooled copper line, and there has been no condensation. However, my basement is VERY dry due to the woodstove. I guess the real test will come this summer once the air is more moist.

 

[kegtoe]

Nice build. Your shop is pretty impressive. I wish I could get that organized...

 

[max384]

Thanks! Once I eventually finish this project, I'll post a better picture of the shop. It's getting messier by the day.

 

[FranklinNewhart]

And poor me. I am just putting in a single with two taps. But it is up in my living room. The two kegs will be in the basement. I don't have a finished basement. It is my brewery and workshop. Don't have refrigeration for them. But the basement is cool. But I am really going to appreciate those two taps. Until now I have had to negotiate the stairs with beers in hand like Saint Pauli Girl.

 

[Driddy]

First of all....amazing build. I love the attention to detail. You are obviously a craftsman!

As far as cooling the lines/"beer cave. I'm not sure how you have your fans set up for flow but I had a similar problem with my set up.

First, you do need to move the cold air from the bottom to the top of the kegerator, but you probably already know that.

A couple of suggestions that might help as well with the temp differential.

Do you have the fans to the beer cave set up in series? In other words, one creating positive pressure, the other creating negative pressure. Series would cause more air flow as opposed to creating a back flow situation.

Secondly, if that doesn't solve the problem, try creating more flow by utilizing the entire fan circumference. In other words, move one fan completely over the beer cave opening. You would then have to move the beverage in/out the other opening. Doesn't appear that would be a big deal, just more beverage tubing.

Hopefully you have rectified the issue already and you are sitting back enjoying the fruits of your labor.

Cheers!

 

[Driddy]

Oh, also try pumping cold air from the bottom of the freezer directly into one of the beer cave ports. Again, you'd have to move one of the beverage lines. I can post you pics of how I made a manifold for air to my taps if you wish. Just let me know. You seem like you could figure out a way too....and probably WAY cooler (both literally and figuratively) than mine. I will be glad to post them anyway.

Cheers

 

[indolent]

I've had flow-back when using a manifold, even with check vales. Usually when the pressure is very close to each other but not quite. The pressure isn't great enough to close the check valve, and beer can flow back. It's happened to me I assure you.

I moved to a 6-gang pressure regulator set, no more problems.

MC

Do you have clear gas lines? Or is there some other way you can tell? I never would have thought this could be an issue with check valves.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Do you have clear gas lines? Or is there some other way you can tell? I never would have thought this could be an issue with check valves.

I have semi-clear gas lines, the hard kind. Similar to soda fountain gas lines.

It may not happen to you, but it did happen to me.

When you put in a new keg, it's normally quite full (mine would often have the lid take a swim when installing), and when you move them around, a small bit of head is created. Add a pressure differential, and it's conceivable that beer will flow back.

MC

 

[Brewbuzzard]

This is the second part of my bar build. The actual building of the bar can be found here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=596537

My bar is in the finished portion of my basement. On the other side of the wall is the unfinished part of my basement, which is where the keezer will be, and the faucets will be through the wall.

The faucets:

The other side of the wall

I am using a 20 cubic foot chest freezer that I will be putting a 10" collar on. I will then be using PVC tubing to connect the lines to a box I'm building around the shanks. I will be using both water and air cooling to ensure cool lines and clean first pours.

The first thing to do was to make space for the box I'm building around the back of the shanks.

And then build the box. The box was insulated with 1" foam board insulation. I used both liquid nails and staples to hold it together. I cut out two holes for the 3" PVC pipes that are going to house the beer lines and cooling lines.

I also put a thin piece of plywood over the foam board insulation so that I could adequately tighten the shank nuts.

I then taped over everything with foil tape

I then added a door with more foam board insulation, and then covered that with the foil tape as well.

The PVC pipes and signage were added

Very nice job, looks great.

 

[CavA3R4]

when can I come over and help "hold up the bar"

 

[goodsuds]

Very cool! I like the pellet trap next to the keezer.

 

[max384]

First of all....amazing build. I love the attention to detail. You are obviously a craftsman!

As far as cooling the lines/"beer cave. I'm not sure how you have your fans set up for flow but I had a similar problem with my set up.

First, you do need to move the cold air from the bottom to the top of the kegerator, but you probably already know that.

A couple of suggestions that might help as well with the temp differential.

Do you have the fans to the beer cave set up in series? In other words, one creating positive pressure, the other creating negative pressure. Series would cause more air flow as opposed to creating a back flow situation.

Secondly, if that doesn't solve the problem, try creating more flow by utilizing the entire fan circumference. In other words, move one fan completely over the beer cave opening. You would then have to move the beverage in/out the other opening. Doesn't appear that would be a big deal, just more beverage tubing.

Hopefully you have rectified the issue already and you are sitting back enjoying the fruits of your labor.

Cheers!

The fans were already adjusted to move air from bottom to recirculate. The fans leading to the pipes are in series.

I still haven't poured my first pint on the new system, so I don't know if I'll have first pour foaming issues or not. If I do, I'll let you know, and probably ask how you did yours.

Thanks!

 

[max384]

Very cool! I like the pellet trap next to the keezer.

Thanks. It's actually an archery range. My kids were practicing shooting squirrels with their bows. We have a 15 yard indoor range. The backdrop is made of wood and scrap carpet.

 

[max384]

I haven't updated this in awhile, but the keezer build is finished. Both manifolds are installed. I have six kegs on gas. They've been on gas for five days now. I'll let them sit for the week, and give my taps their first pull on Friday evening.

I put up my tap list sign:

And I finished my tap handles:

 

[John Paul Stoddard]

Should have just had 7 Taps and Named them after Dwarves

 

[max384]

Or 13 taps after Tolkien's dwarves in the hobbit...

 

[max384]

Last night was inauguration night for the tap system. I have five beers on Tap, and a root beer. The cooling system worked perfectly! No first pour foam, and the beers were cold!

However, my beer kinda sucked. These are the first beers I've made since moving to my new house.

I suspect the water may be to blame. The water at my last house was tested and was actually great for most styles, so I never adjusted the water. At my new house, it's hard water. I haven't had it tested, and haven't made adjustments. Looks like I'll be learning a new brewing skill...

 

[kegtoe]

Hardwater is typically good for brewing. If you are concerned with water quality it may be the Chlorine or Chloromine your city uses to treat the water. A couple of options would be to buy purified, spring, or RO water in the store and harden accordingly with brewing salts. Otherwise, you can use a campden tablet in your water. When boiled the chlorine and chloromine are supposed to be released more effectively.

 

[Weezy]

Great that the taps worked well! Sorry the beer sucked. I went through the same adventure with the water. Read AJ's sticky in the science section.

 

[max384]

Hardwater is typically good for brewing. If you are concerned with water quality it may be the Chlorine or Chloromine your city uses to treat the water. A couple of options would be to buy purified, spring, or RO water in the store and harden accordingly with brewing salts. Otherwise, you can use a campden tablet in your water. When boiled the chlorine and chloromine are supposed to be released more effectively.

I checked the online water report, and they use chlorines, not chloramines, forunately. I'll be sending in a sample to Ward Labs, however, to get all the specifics.

In the meantime, I think I'll be buying RO water and water salts.

Thanks!

Great that the taps worked well! Sorry the beer sucked. I went through the same adventure with the water. Read AJ's sticky in the science section.

I'll be checking that out. Thanks.

 

[Genuine]

Looks great! I just moved into my new house back in November so I'm looking to do something similiar

 

[TravelingLight]

I'm sitting here eating a peanut butter and jealous sandwich. Great build, I dig your style.

My apologies if you mentioned this and I missed it...your line cooling bucket: do you just keep it full of water and have a fountain pump or some pump to pump the cold water through the copper lines and dump back in the bucket? If so, brilliant. Hadn't even thought about doing that (even though that's essentially how I used to control heat in my hydroponic buckets).

 

[rippajak]

This build is unbelievably cool. Slick, polished, professional-looking. Beautiful work.

I could not be more jealous.

 

[max384]

Thanks guys! I appreciate everyone following along with my progress and commenting.

I'm sitting here eating a peanut butter and jealous sandwich. Great build, I dig your style.

My apologies if you mentioned this and I missed it...your line cooling bucket: do you just keep it full of water and have a fountain pump or some pump to pump the cold water through the copper lines and dump back in the bucket? If so, brilliant. Hadn't even thought about doing that (even though that's essentially how I used to control heat in my hydroponic buckets).

That's exactly what it is. It's a 160 mph adjustable flow pond pump I got off of amazon.

 

[freisste]

That's exactly what it is. It's a 160 mph adjustable flow pond pump I got off of amazon.

mph or kph? Either way, it's fast...

 

[max384]

Lol. Autocorrect! It should say GPH.