Banjo Burner-Waste of Gas/Money?

[coldrice]

Out of my first tank I only got 1.5 batches of beer. During the second one I had to move my pot inside. I got a new tank and brewed again last week. Only 6 gallons of wort took 90 minutes to boil, i could barely maintain the boil (as usual) and the tank petered out just as I was finishing...it was 65F outside! WTF! Why am I the only person with these problems? What is going on here? Everyone seems to love the Banjo Burner but me!

 

[willynilly]

Out of my first tank I only got 1.5 batches of beer. During the second one I had to move my pot inside. I got a new tank and brewed again last week. Only 6 gallons of wort took 90 minutes to boil, i could barely maintain the boil (as usual) and the tank petered out just as I was finishing...it was 65F outside! WTF! Why am I the only person with these problems? What is going on here? Everyone seems to love the Banjo Burner but me!

WOW??

Something is amiss.

It only takes about 3,000 BTUs to reach a boil in 6 gallons from 155F.

You said it took 90 minutes to reach a boil?

So you are saying that burner is only transferring 2000 BTU/hr to the kettle?

 

[coldrice]

this 3rd batch I started out at a lower temp because I (stupidly) added cold water to bring it up to 6 gallons. Even still, I am belting out an obnoxious amount of resources and getting very little in return. it seems like I should rig the burner so it is closer to the pot, but I don't see why that should even be necessary. I am using a brand new MegaPot. I should be rocking and rolling- I just don't get it.

 

[chefmike]

Gas leak?

Clog forcing gas back out air intake?

Something is wrong for sure...

 

[Augie]

That really sounds odd, I am able to get almost 5 batches off of one of my tanks. I also heat my mash water on the stove but bring my sparge water up on burner. I would say you had the burner up too high but you said it took 90 min to reach a boil. I have no suggestion except how high is the kettle above the burner and how windy is it where you brew

 

[coldrice]

it can sometimes be windier than I would like, I am 1/2 mile from the beach. This past time, however, it was not very windy. I can certify that I do not have a gas leek, too. I heat my mash and sparge water on my stove. Do you crank the flame all the way or keep it at medium?

 

[willynilly]

Bottom line, even if you start at 50F and want to reach a boil in 6 gallons, it only takes 8,000 BTUs of heat to do this.

Your burner is rated at what?

One pound of LP is about 22,000 BTUs

It should only take 1 pound of LP to reach a boil in 6 gallons from 50F...

This is a mystery, but gas burners are more eff. at lower power settings.

 

[Augie]

I usually have it up to get to a boil but turn it down to get a nice roll going, but I never have the valve full open

 

[coldrice]

the valve on the tank or the control valve on the regulator?

 

[Augie]

I have the tank full open but the flame control valve it partially open

 

[willynilly]

Okay, little more math.

A 20lb LP tank contains about 395,000 BTUs of energy.

Your burner, at is rated output, is 150,000 BTUs

It should take you about 2.5 hours at FULL OPEN to empty a tank.

Even at 30% eff. from your burner, that is 45,000 BTUs to the kettle (realistic)

You can get 6 gallons from 50F to a boil in like 11 minutes flat with that power.

 

[mariojr]

Sounds like the OPD may be engaged. Have you opened the regulator before you opened the tank valve? This usually triggers the OPD and restricts the gas flow to the burner.

 

[willynilly]

Sounds like the OPD may be engaged. Have you opened the regulator before you opened the tank valve? This usually triggers the OPD and restricts the gas flow to the burner.

That doesn't explain why he is emptying tanks so quickly though...

It is interesting, it took him 90 minutes to reach the boil, and I assume he boiled for an hour... that is 2.5 hours. That is EXACTLY how long it should take to empty a 20 lb LP tank with that burner FULL OPEN.

So, can we assume that the burner is actually consuming all that gas, and is actually burning at 150,000 BTU/hr?

In that case, he is only transferring about 2k-3k BTUs/hr to the kettle? That is a 2% eff. burner.

IF that tank is really empty after that 90 minutes to reach the boil, and 60 minute boil (2.5 hours)... you are definitely burning that burner at 150,000 BTUs, the OPD isnt playing a role at all, it is a mathematical certainty.

 

[mariojr]

That doesn't explain why he is emptying tanks so quickly though...

Ahh yes. Helps to comprehend the post.

 

[willynilly]

Ahh yes. Helps to comprehend the post.

See, EDIT above too... it explains it a little better.

His burner is actually burning at 150,000 BTUs output. 2.5 hours to empty a 20lb tank is 150,000 BTU/hr

The question is why is his setup only netting him about 2-3,000 BTU/hr???

In a perfect world, a Banjo Burner would get 6 gallons from 150F to a BOIL in 3 minutes flat

 

[coldrice]

Even if my burner was cranked, would it be THAT much more efficient had I had it set to a lower output? Does this truly lower its efficiency so greatly? It is possible that a combination of my having the control valve opened too far and unfavorable winds have influenced my results up to this point. How many of those among us wrap their kettle with insulation? It doesn't seem that common to me, but...

 

[willynilly]

Even if my burner was cranked, would it be THAT much more efficient had I had it set to a lower output? Does this truly lower its efficiency so greatly? It is possible that a combination of my having the control valve opened too far and unfavorable winds have influenced my results up to this point. How many of those among us wrap their kettle with insulation? It doesn't seem that common to me, but...

Something is wacky here.

NO, running it FULL blast will not get you to 2% efficiency, which is where you are at now... It will however reduce your efficiency to a degree.

Almost no one insulates a boil kettle, especially with a gas burner under it. My old 55K BTU burner never had a problem reaching a boil and maintaining it at just above idle flame.

Can you post a picture of your setup? That will be helpful, this is a complete waste of gas now.

 

[Duffer]

Just a guess, but you may be pushing the gas thru the burner at such velocity that much of it is not even burning and therefore even tho you are truly emptying a tank you are not getting the BTUs out of it cuz it's not burning.

1) you can definitely over-flow any burner - literally blowing out the flame-lets with the gas velocity.

2) you also need to spend some time adjusting the air 'damper' so that your flame-lets are burning clean and blue. Too little air and you are burning cold. (yellow and sooty) Too much air and the flame-lets will go out and not burn at all. In this condition your burner will easily be blown out by wind also.

The harder your burner is running, the more closed the air 'damper' needs to be.

 

[StMarcos]

How far is the kettle bottom from the surface of the burner, and what does the flame look like?

 

[coldrice]

Just a guess, but you may be pushing the gas thru the burner at such velocity that much of it is not even burning and therefore even tho you are truly emptying a tank you are not getting the BTUs out of it cuz it's not burning.

1) you can definitely over-flow any burner - literally blowing out the flame-lets with the gas velocity.

2) you also need to spend some time adjusting the air 'damper' so that your flame-lets are burning clean and blue. Too little air and you are burning cold. (yellow and sooty) Too much air and the flame-lets will go out and not burn at all. In this condition your burner will easily be blown out by wind also.

The harder your burner is running, the more closed the air 'damper' needs to be.

I believe Duffer may have the way of it on his guess #1. Its possible I am taxing my burner to hard with the control knob opened too far. Its likely I am just spewing out gas that never even got the chance to ignite. I think next time I will try it more slow and steady. This past beer was 130F at 6 gallons starting out. It took nearly 90 minutes on a not-very-windy day.
The distance between the kettle and the burner is standard for a Banjo Burner, though as I said before, I wish that it was a bit higher to help me compensate for heat loss in the windy area that I live in.

 

[BigJason]

I believe Duffer may have the way of it on his guess #1. Its possible I am taxing my burner to hard with the control knob opened too far. Its likely I am just spewing out gas that never even got the chance to ignite. I think next time I will try it more slow and steady....

If you are, you should be able to smell the unburned gas.

 

[SouthernYankee]

How far is the kettle bottom from the surface of the burner, and what does the flame look like?

Just asked the same question I was going to ask...

I The distance between the kettle and the burner is standard for a Banjo Burner.

What do you mean by standard? Are you using a homemade stand or one with the burner already built into it?
Just trying to gather more info to find this problem.
I just built a stand and bought 2 of these...tested then twice and seem to work well.

 

[coldrice]

Its just a Banjo Burner sitting on the ground with a kettle on top of it. Maybe I don't understand the question, but its probably about six inches or so from burner to pot. And yes, it does smell like gas during use but I assumed that was just the smell of it being ignited. This is what I'm using: http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewi...ow-profile-banjo-burner-burner-and-stand.html

 

[Donner]

i have that burner and don't have near the trouble with it as you seem to. There was a learning curve, though. As others have said, it's hard to tell without knowing what your flame looks like. I noticed that this burner is pretty finicky about the air to gas ratio. I have to adjust the air intake until i get the flame i want. My regulator is also only half open at any point. I don't have any trouble brining 7 gallons to a boil.

I have also noticed that wind does mess with the flame a lot. I have a wind shield made out of aluminum flashing that i wrap around the burner and that has helped me maintain a strong flame. Too much wind and i lose my boil quickly it seems.

 

[BigJason]

Its just a Banjo Burner sitting on the ground with a kettle on top of it. Maybe I don't understand the question, but its probably about six inches or so from burner to pot. And yes, it does smell like gas during use but I assumed that was just the smell of it being ignited. This is what I'm using: http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewi...ow-profile-banjo-burner-burner-and-stand.html

If you're smelling gas while it's burning, then you're putting out more gas than it is burning.

 

[bja]

its probably about six inches or so from burner to pot.

6" seems like a lot. I don't have a banjo but my burner is about 3-1/2" from the pot.

 

[SOB]

Had the same issue when I first got mine. The main culprit was the wind. Even a slight breeze would cause major problems. I moved my brewing into the open garage...no problems anymore.

Later I had a propane tank that wouldnt make a tight seal on the line to the burner. This also (obviously) caused problems.

 

[coldrice]

I just got around to measuring the distance between the burner and the bottom of the pot. It is exactly 4.5". I have determined that the wind, as well as having the gas flow valve open too far is what has been hampering my progress. I aim to make an aluminum shroud for my Banjo Burner, and I have vowed not to 'shock and awe' my brew kettle anymore, in favor of a slower more controlled flame. Thanks everyone for your many posts, I'm sure there will be more stupid questions from me in the future.

 

[Donner]

i went to home depot and bought a roll of aluminum flashing. It's like two feet tall and maybe 8-10 foot long i think. Anyway, i rolled it out around my kettle (the height was right because i put my burner on two cinder blocks to raise it higher off the ground). I cut off a few feet and then notched out a small area for the intake. I put two screwed in one end and punched holes in the other so i can join them together and hold the thing closed.

One thing to keep in mind is that you want the hose from your tank to be entirely outside the shield. You don't want to melt the hose. I formed my shield so that it's tight enough to fit snugly on either side of the intake so i was sure the hose would stay cool.

 

[coldrice]

Why would you want to raise the burner? I would think you'd rather keep it closer to the ground so the top of the shroud would be above it as much as possible.