Band Aid taste Post Kegged Beer

[ToastedPenguin]

I brewed 10G of an IPA which was dry hopped and kegged it in two 5G ball lock kegs back in June. Both kegs were put on pressure and one of the kegs was put on tap in my keezer which is fitted with perlick taps.

The first keg lasted until about 3 weeks ago with no noticeable off taste. Once it was emptied I immediately swapped the old keg out with the 2nd keg that was sitting in my keezer. Drinking from this new keg neither myself or anyone noticed an off flavor. Two weeks went by and I go to grab a pint and I immediately get a band aid taste.

I know an IPA can start to turn metallically when it sits for a long time, especially if it dry hopped. But I can't figure out how only 5G of this IPA developed a band aid taste and only after it was tapped.

Looking for suggestions on what the potential causes could be. I am already starting to clean out the keezer, the taps, lines etc. but I'd like to hear from anyone that may have had this happen, since the only time I have ever detected the band aid taste was right fermentation when I tried using all tap water and it didn't get fully dechlorinated.

Thanks!
David

 

[bdupree]

Since it was only in one of the kegs, i would narrow it down to a problem with that keg. Maybe some mold in the dip tube, some chlorine based sanatizer (sometimes people rack their beer on top of the sanatizer accidentally and don't realize it untill later), or possibly an issue with the posts on the keg. I would take it all apart and clean everything really good. If they weren't fermented in the same vessel, it could always be an infection.

 

[ElevenBrewCo]

Since it was only in one of the kegs, i would narrow it down to a problem with that keg. Maybe some mold in the dip tube, some chlorine based sanatizer (sometimes people rack their beer on top of the sanatizer accidentally and don't realize it untill later), or possibly an issue with the posts on the keg. I would take it all apart and clean everything really good. If they weren't fermented in the same vessel, it could always be an infection.

I thought it was ok to rack onto sanitizer? ive never had problems with that.

 

[cimirie]

I thought it was ok to rack onto sanitizer? ive never had problems with that.

He's talking about racking onto a chlorine (ie bleach) based sanitizer. Small amounts of bleach in beer can produce band-aid taste. Racking onto Starsan is fine.

 

[day_trippr]

If the OP had racked onto a chlorine-based sanitizer, I would expect the beer would have immediately acquired an "off" flavor.

Given the details provided in the initial post, my vote goes to an infection...

Cheers!

 

[ToastedPenguin]

If the OP had racked onto a chlorine-based sanitizer, I would expect the beer would have immediately acquired an "off" flavor.

Given the details provided in the initial post, my vote goes to an infection...

Cheers!

Ya I racked into the keg that was sanitized with starsan, I don't use chlorine based anything for washing or sanitizing. I'd rather spend the few extra $$ then run the risk of adding chlorine to my beer when I take the time to dechlorinate the 45% tap water I do use in my AG brews.

My first guess with the off taste; which wasn't there day of tapping and only developed after sitting tapped for 2 weeks, was an infection but most of the info I have found on this sort of infection (post kegging) doesn't mention the band aid taste as being an infection, it usually points to the chemical reaction yeast has when in contact with chlorine. If anyone can point me in the direction of this sort of info I would appreciate it.

Interestingly I was at a Buffalo Wild Wings this past weekend and ordered the only decent craft beer they had on tap in the Chicago area, Goose Island Green Line and to my surprise I tasted a subtle band aid flavor. Figuring BWW doesn't clean their lines all that often and doesn't know how to handle "live" beer I am starting to think its dirty line related. Of course I also haven't found any info specifically mentioning dirty lines resulting in band aid flavor so I'd like to find that as well.

 

[JuanMoore]

Is the flavor less pronounced in the 2nd or 3rd pours of the evening? If so, it could be dirty lines (less likely from your flavor description), or simply the material the lines are made of. Vinyl beer lines can impart a rubbery band-aid like flavor when the beer sits in them for more than a couple hours. This is especially true of cheaper vinyl line not made for beverage applications, like the stuff you'd find at a hardware store. There are special barrier lines that don't have this issue.

 

[ToastedPenguin]

Is the flavor less pronounced in the 2nd or 3rd pours of the evening? If so, it could be dirty lines (less likely from your flavor description), or simply the material the lines are made of. Vinyl beer lines can impart a rubbery band-aid like flavor when the beer sits in them for more than a couple hours. This is especially true of cheaper vinyl line not made for beverage applications, like the stuff you'd find at a hardware store. There are special barrier lines that don't have this issue.

I ran 2 pints out of the keg and it didn't seem to change in intensity. I'm using beverage tubing so I doubt it's coming from the tubing material. I am going to move the keg to a known good tap and see if that makes a difference but I'm doubtful. I have already cleaned the heck out of the tap and lines this beer was on as well as the other taps/lines that were unused at the moment to prevent this from happening again.

 

[lylo]

Did you ever trace down your bandaid off taste.I am having the same problems you described.I'm getting really tired of this tossing of beer thing!

I ran 2 pints out of the keg and it didn't seem to change in intensity. I'm using beverage tubing so I doubt it's coming from the tubing material. I am going to move the keg to a known good tap and see if that makes a difference but I'm doubtful. I have already cleaned the heck out of the tap and lines this beer was on as well as the other taps/lines that were unused at the moment to prevent this from happening again.

 

[ColumbusAmongus]

I am battling this prob too. I get it from my primary carboy about 3-4 days into fermentation. I always clean with starsan but I called my water supplier and they said there was 0.5 - 1.0 ppm of sodium hypochlorite in the water.

I brewed a pale ale where I used a 1/4 campden tab in the mash water but not the sparge water and the band aid flavor was over powering.

For a re-brew, I filtered all of my water through a Brita filter this time around but I still ended up with a band aid taste. It didnt seem as bad but it was still enough to ruin the brew.

I am wondering if there is something going on with using star san with water containing sodium hypochlorite because I don't use filtered water for sanitizing. The phosphoric acid in the san should react with it NaClO to form chlorine. When I sanitize my siphon and carboy, I don't rinse so there could potentially be some chlorine floating around after that. I dont have a clue how much is significant though.

I had this band aid issue in bottles the first time that I used star san. I thought that it was originally residual star san causing the flavor so I switched back to one step and didn't have the problem again. It happened here and there and for some reason, in my head, I linked it to using star san. I know star san itself isn't supposed to cause off flavors but I am wondering if this NaClO reaction with acid could be the culprit.

I think for my third re-brew I will use one step instead and see what happens. The chemistry is there but I don't know if the chlorine levels produced are significant or not.

 

[lylo]

Thanks, I hope we can find some help.4 kegs down the tubes last nite.Cleaned and sanitized all of my keeszr lines and taps with pressurized oxy and followed with pressurized starsan.Going after everything else this afternoon.

 

[ColumbusAmongus]

Yeah I am on a mission to figure this out. It seems like it is hard to determine if it is contamination or chlorine water. I prob will have to dump another batch or so (hopefully not) but if a different sanitizer + filtering my sanitizer water doesn't work, then I am getting a new carboy to see if it is a micro scratch contamination thing.

 

[JuanMoore]

I am battling this prob too. I get it from my primary carboy about 3-4 days into fermentation. I always clean with starsan but I called my water supplier and they said there was 0.5 - 1.0 ppm of sodium hypochlorite in the water.

I brewed a pale ale where I used a 1/4 campden tab in the mash water but not the sparge water and the band aid flavor was over powering.

For a re-brew, I filtered all of my water through a Brita filter this time around but I still ended up with a band aid taste. It didnt seem as bad but it was still enough to ruin the brew.

I am wondering if there is something going on with using star san with water containing sodium hypochlorite because I don't use filtered water for sanitizing. The phosphoric acid in the san should react with it NaClO to form chlorine. When I sanitize my siphon and carboy, I don't rinse so there could potentially be some chlorine floating around after that. I dont have a clue how much is significant though.

I had this band aid issue in bottles the first time that I used star san. I thought that it was originally residual star san causing the flavor so I switched back to one step and didn't have the problem again. It happened here and there and for some reason, in my head, I linked it to using star san. I know star san itself isn't supposed to cause off flavors but I am wondering if this NaClO reaction with acid could be the culprit.

I think for my third re-brew I will use one step instead and see what happens. The chemistry is there but I don't know if the chlorine levels produced are significant or not.

Yeah I am on a mission to figure this out. It seems like it is hard to determine if it is contamination or chlorine water. I prob will have to dump another batch or so (hopefully not) but if a different sanitizer + filtering my sanitizer water doesn't work, then I am getting a new carboy to see if it is a micro scratch contamination thing.

Chlorophenols are created when chlorine or chloramine (or compounds of either) react with the yeast. The taste threshold for chlorophenols is extremely low, just a few parts per billion (with a B), so one ppm chlorine in the sanitizer could be a cause. Also, your Brita filter will remove a lot of the chlorine/sodium hypochlorite, but not all of it.

Try treating ALL of the brewing water with campden tablets if you want to rule out your water as the culprit. By all I mean anything that could ever come in contact with your beer, sanitizing water included. Or just buy some bottled spring water to brew a batch with, or RO/distilled water and some brewing salts.

While the star-san could be reacting with the NaClO to create chlorine, it's not the star-san that's the problem, it's the NaClO. Beer/wort is also acidic, and may convert it to chlorine also. And it may not even need to be converted, since the yeast may react with the NaClO directly to form chlorophenols. I don't know all of the chemistry involved, but your theory about the star-san seems tenuous at best IMO.

 

[ColumbusAmongus]

Chlorophenols are created when chlorine or chloramine (or compounds of either) react with the yeast. The taste threshold for chlorophenols is extremely low, just a few parts per billion (with a B), so one ppm chlorine in the sanitizer could be a cause. Also, your Brita filter will remove a lot of the chlorine/sodium hypochlorite, but not all of it.

Try treating ALL of the brewing water with campden tablets if you want to rule out your water as the culprit. By all I mean anything that could ever come in contact with your beer, sanitizing water included. Or just buy some bottled spring water to brew a batch with, or RO/distilled water and some brewing salts.

While the star-san could be reacting with the NaClO to create chlorine, it's not the star-san that's the problem, it's the NaClO. Beer/wort is also acidic, and may convert it to chlorine also. And it may not even need to be converted, since the yeast may react with the NaClO directly to form chlorophenols. I don't know all of the chemistry involved, but your theory about the star-san seems tenuous at best IMO.

Yeah you are right. I have been doing a lot of chlorine research. Chlorine and hypochlorite do the same thing in water being that they form hypochlorous acid which seems to react fairly quick with phenols.

http://water.me.vccs.edu/concepts/chlorchemistry.html

From the brew wiki site description of phenolics, I don't think the yeast is doing anything with the chlorine, the yeast seem to be a phenol provider for the chlorination. Do you have any info about the yeast doing anything with chlorine because I couldn't find anything about it?

http://brewiki.org/BeerFlavours

I think in terms of bottling, I wonder if I have been dodging the bullet by using peroxide forming sanitizers like oxyclean and one step in untreated water. Peroxide pushes the chlorine from NaClO into NaCl so it in a sense would dechlorinate my san water. I might not have been matter of switching to star san, it may have been a matter of switching away from peroxide forming cleaners.

 

[JuanMoore]

I was oversimplifying, and you are correct that the chlorine doesn't react with the yeast directly, but rather with the phenols created by the yeast. My point is if you remove the chlorine and chlorine compounds to start with, then you don't need to worry about reactions with various sanitizers or other chemicals present in your brew.

 

[lylo]

BTW I have always included 1 campden tablet in my strike water

 

[ColumbusAmongus]

Here is an interesting section from a document off probrewer.

"These Gram negative short rods grow and produce
gas in lactose broth, are indole negative and when inoculated into brewery or pilot plant wort grow and
cause spoilage. While these two cultures, which apparently are identical, cause high phenol and chlorophenol concentrations in worts and in beers made from
these worts, other isolates of wort spoilage bacteria do not
have this effect. Brewery worts inoculated with the
phenol producing bacteria, incubated for nine days, and
then analyzed, gave values as high as 80 ppb for
chlorophenols and 117 ppb for phenols. Similar worts
infected with other strains of wort bacteria and incubated, spoiled in the usual manner but did not contain
abnormal amounts of phenolics."

http://www.probrewer.com/resources/library/43-phenolic.pdf