Bad News Brewery - Control Panel

[P-J]

I am just about to start a build that looks like it will be based upon this thread.
Your process and troubleshooting have been very informative.
I appreciate the iterations that this thread has gone through. Did you ever post a link to the revised 2352 version with the safe start interlock included?
Also if there were any changes you would make what would they be?

Thanks and enjoy your beer!

It was not posted but here it is:

It's revised to show all SYL-2352 PIDs.

As always - Click on the image to see (and save) a full scale diagram that is printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")



P-J

 

[decoleur]

P-J and Kevin,

This is and has been an outstanding thread! This is just what I need.

Any guidance on the wire gauge to be used through out this build?

P-J, thanks for what you continue to contribute in this area. Many breweries were inspired and built off of your designs.

Next round is on me.

-Timur

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

decoleur
I've attached the wiring diagram I used. It is similar to the one P-J posted, but shows the actual relay in it. I imagine P-J's would perform in a similar way, thought I didn't double check it all that much.

Things I'd change - I wouldn't install the alarm silence push buttons. I probably wouldn't install the alarms either, or if I did, I'd only install one. And lastly, I'd use all the non-timer PIDs. I have never used the timer function, and frankly I've never really used the alarms either. The PIDs perform well and I'm involved in the whole brewing process so I don't need an alarm to let me know something's happening - I pay attention.

Other things I would have done different - I mounted my control panel to an adjustable arm on the ceiling - it wasn't built all that strong which I regret, and the wires leading to the heating elements and RTDs aren't long enough to allow for much adjustment.

All in all, I'm very happy with it.

Wire gauge - look at the various tables listed on the web and make sure you match your wire gauge / breaker size / expected amp draw of your devices.

-Kevin

 

[decoleur]

P-J and Kevin,
This is fantastic, combined with Kevin's googledoc I am getting a very good idea if prices for this.
Based upon Kevin's input I will rethink the alarms. If I don't what are you using for switches? Is that momentary NC part of the alarm buzzrr or something else?

When I get started I will start a new build thread and back link here. This is great!

Cheers!

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Glad to help - 95% of what I learned in building this was due to this forum, so I'm happy to pay it forward.

The momentary NC switches between each PID and buzzer is the cut-out. It's just there to break the circuit between the PID and the buzzer, so I don't have to listen to the buzzer screach at me as I adjust the PID values to change the alarm parameter. But it's maybe 1 time in 30 that I actually set any sort of alarm, the other times I just set the alarm value to 500* so I never have to hear it. For me and my process, they're totally useless clutter on the panel and were a waste of money. I see no value in using them, but recognize that others do, so to each their own.

-Kevin

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

The only time I regretted not having an alarm switch for each PID was when my HLT probe cord broke and I had turn off all the alarms to finish the brew day. The more I use my system the less I use alarms except for the timer, that's the great thing about PIDs, no need to pot watch except for the boil of course.

 

[cctopcat]

I've been dreaming electric dreams for almost a year now and when I ran across your great looking build, I was hooked... I finally started ordering the parts and pieces to make the switch. A major factor in the decision to get started was knowing that there were pioneers that had done the legwork necessary to design and perfect these systems. And on top of that, they (you) seem so happy to share the knowledge! Amazing.

My build is a 50a control for my 10 gallon e-herms using P-J's Bad News Brewery inspired "Auberin-wiring1-a11h-SYL-2352-5500w.jpg" posted here on May 4th, 2014. I'll replace the lighted buttons (4) with separate switches and lights (just because I like "throwing" switches). Any thoughts on whether I should use P-J's "power loop" safety start or figure out how to add in the DIN mount Magnecraft Power Relay he found? It looks like the relay would allow killing the power running into the box a bit closer to the key switch/contactor... or doesn't that really matter? Any Kevin experience or P-J magic on the safe start would be welcomed, and/or a full size version of the diagram showing the safe start posted here on 1/15/13 would be of great help.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack but I had to say thanks very much Kevin and P-J, specifically in this thread, for coming up with what I think will fit me to a tee and make my brew days even more pleasurable. You guys got me to pull the trigger and make the move to electric and I appreciate it.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

cctopcat, I'm happy that my efforts in some way smoothed the way for you to start up your own E-Brewery.

Should be no issues using the existing diagram but replacing the lighted switches with lights & switches. You may even be able to find a lighted flip switch...

So I spent some time looking over P-J's "power loop" safe start and the one I used. Best I can tell, the only operational difference is that on the "Power Loop", if the breaker running the loop trips, then you loose the whole panel. On mine, if the breaker trips, the other components stay on. The upshot of the Power Loop is that you don't need additional equipment. Note that the diagram shown would have to be wired exactly as shown. I don't have a 'PID' switch because I can't imagine a possible scenario where I'd want the panel on and the PIDs off. If you got rid of the PID switch, the power loop idea wouldn't work anymore (as shown).

Not sure which diagram you wanted from January 15 2013, but if I find it I'll post it.

Congrats again on the plan to go forward. Post a link to your build thread when you put one together, and don't hesitate to post / PM any quetions you have.

-Kevin

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Found the diagram you were looking at on Page 11 of this thread. Not sure I have the actual file anywhere - couldn't find it in my email, either. From what I can tell, it's basically a simplified version of what I showed in post 153, just using a different relay and not showing the loop that goes through all the NC terminals of the other switches.
-Kevin

 

[cctopcat]

Looking at P-J's "power loop", is my thinking correct that if the 15a breaker were flipped off or tripped after power up, with all switches off except the power switch, that there would still be power to that whole circuit? Maybe that would never happen?

I'll try to start a build thread as soon as I start making progress... packages arrive daily

Thanks for the feedback!

--tim

 

[P-J]

Looking at P-J's "power loop", is my thinking correct that if the 15a breaker were flipped off or tripped after power up, with all switches off except the power switch, that there would still be power to that whole circuit? Maybe that would never happen?

I'll try to start a build thread as soon as I start making progress... packages arrive daily

Thanks for the feedback!

Which diagram? Which post?

 

[cctopcat]

Hi P-J. Just trying to decide on a safe start method and was looking at "Auberin-wiring1-a11h-SYL-2352-5500w.jpg" you posted in this thread. I don't see a post # but it was 05-04-2014 08:18 AM. Thanks for any insights!
--tim

 

[P-J]

Looking at P-J's "power loop", is my thinking correct that if the 15a breaker were flipped off or tripped after power up, with all switches off except the power switch, that there would still be power to that whole circuit? Maybe that would never happen?

I'll try to start a build thread as soon as I start making progress... packages arrive daily

Thanks for the feedback!

Which diagram? Which post?

Hi P-J. Just trying to decide on a safe start method and was looking at "Auberin-wiring1-a11h-SYL-2352-5500w.jpg" you posted in this thread. I don't see a post # but it was 05-04-2014 08:18 AM. Thanks for any insights.

If the power is interupted with the 15A breaker for any reason, the entire system will power down as there would be no control circuits available.

Hope this makes sense and helps you.

P-J

 

[cctopcat]

I can see that if one of the switches 1 through 5 were on (NC contact was open) that it would shut down. But if 1-5 were all off, with the key switch on, wouldn't the contactor coil remain energized from Line 1 through the Safe Start circuit with the CB tripped? Thanks so much for your help and patience... I'm not an electrician and couldn't even play one on TV.

--tim

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

You are correct, if the breaker is off or tripped, and all the swithces are closed, then the circuit would be complete through all the NC blocks through the keyed switch. The moment you turned on any switch, however, the whole thing would die because there'd be no back-feed through the blown circuit breaker. So, from an electrical engineering mental exercise - you're right, it'd work. For reality - it wouldn't be of any value whatsoever.

Of course - if you have circuits tripping inside your panel, you should probably look into that before going on with a brew anyways, so there's that...

-Kevin

 

[cctopcat]

Of course - if you have circuits tripping inside your panel, you should probably look into that before going on with a brew anyways, so there's that...

Haha, Amen to that!

You are correct, if the breaker is off or tripped, and all the swithces are closed, then the circuit would be complete through all the NC blocks through the keyed switch. The moment you turned on any switch, however, the whole thing would die because there'd be no back-feed through the blown circuit breaker. So, from an electrical engineering mental exercise - you're right, it'd work. For reality - it wouldn't be of any value whatsoever.

Okay cool, that's what I thought. I'm just making sure I understand the diagrams before I start connecting wires. Thanks again to you and P-J... I've learned a lot from you both.

--tim