Bad News Brewery - Control Panel

[BadNewsBrewery]

The diagram shows two legs (Hot A / Hot B) being controlled and the third set of wires from the switch is the coil. Because the contactor I wound up with is 3 pole, I'll also control the neutral.from it even though the drawing doesn't show it.

 

[Smiling-Poodle-Brewery]

Thanks, that makes sense now. I am just getting all my stuff together to build my box. I bought a 3 pole contactor because I wanted to break all three legs in case there is a incorrectly wired outlet somewhere in my shop that I haven't found yet. Like you, I was suprised on how big the 3 pole 50 amp contactors are compared to the 2 pole 30 amp ones. I may have to get a bigger box than the 12X12X8 that I picked up at HD.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

It'll be tight but you might be good.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Progress. SWMBO isn't too fond of having no dining room table, but it's cold in the garage!

 

[Garyr2973]

Are you saving any space by using all (mostly) DIN products? Seems like if your doing a Kal clone it would be quite a bit of difference space wise using DIN mount.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

The DIN is great because I can adjust locations as I figure out what goes where, and I can clip on extra components quickly, pull them out to wire up, and clip them back. Ease of installation is the primary advantage. As far as space, they sit up a few mm higher than if you bolted them straight to the back plate, so no saving there. Install is easy though. I used 3 screws per rail, so 9 total holes in the back plate for the ability to mount everything I need.

So, in short - do whatever makes you happy. I'm glad I wound up with DIN mountable components.

 

[skepace]

The DIN is great because I can adjust locations as I figure out what goes where, and I can clip on extra components quickly, pull them out to wire up, and clip them back. Ease of installation is the primary advantage. As far as space, they sit up a few mm higher than if you bolted them straight to the back plate, so no saving there. Install is easy though. I used 3 screws per rail, so 9 total holes in the back plate for the ability to mount everything I need.

So, in short - do whatever makes you happy. I'm glad I wound up with DIN mountable components.

Using DIN mountable components change which PID's you used?

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

No...

 

[skepace]

No...

Thanks!

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Progress on the wiring is slow. Cut wire, crimp ring, solder, install. I'll focus on cleaning up the routing when it's done.

 

[skepace]

Looking great!

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

I have everything wired. I'm in the process of cleaning up the runs and doing point-to-point continuity testing on all the wires to make sure I have it wired up like I want. I seriously underestimated the amount of time it takes to wire these up and to do it well. The wiring diagram was priceless.

I'll upload photos tonight if I get it wrapped up, before I plug it in and blow everything sky-high.

Then it's time to finish the last few holes in the kettles and on to brewing!

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

So great news - finished the panel, checked the circuits, everything looked good.

Plugged it in, turned on the breaker - no smoke. Good start.

(never mind the weird random black wire in the middle - that's the feed to my LEDs for the backlight box, once I finish it)

Turned on the key - nada. After some checking, realized I ran the safe-start-interlock relay neutral to downstream of the main contactor - :smack:. Swapped to be connected before the contactor, flipped the switch and....

BUZZZZZ

After some trouble shooting, it's evident that I was sent a sub-par contactor. It was listed as 'new' on eBay, but when I got it there was obvious damage and an attempted repair. I didn't complain because hey - if it works, it'll live inside the panel. Well... it didn't work, and now they want me to send it back (my expense) to refund the purchase cost. I'll be out the shipping cost to get it here and to get it back (about the same cost as the contactor itself) and will have nothing. I'm not too fond of that idea - like hell I'm paying $20 something to get nothing but disappointment and let down.

Once I get a new contactor, should be able to continue the process of trouble shooting. Was planning to brew this weekend - doesn't look like that's happening.

-Kevin

 

[P-J]

Contactors & Relays auberins.com
Call them and you can get it in a day or 2.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

P-J,
I plan to run both elements at the same time, so I am looking for a 50a contactor. I'm also looking for a 3-pole contactor as the one I had before was set up for that and I wired it that way. I suppose I can run the neutral straight to the terminal block, but if I can get the seller on eBay to ship me what I ordered but NOT broken, I'll be better off.

Thanks for the suggestion. And thanks for the help - that wiring diagram saved my ass a LOT of headache trying to wire things up.
-Kevin

 

[Rarian]

Kevin, if you end up having bad luck with getting it replaced, trying sending a pm to zeus53219. He's packing up my contactors right now, and if he has them asks $22 each plus shipping.

 

[P-J]

This one Contactor, 2 pole 40 A, 120V Coil Is rated for 40A with an inductive load but it is rated for 50A with a resistive load. Resistive is what we do.

Oh, and BTW you do not need to switch the neutral at all.

Just saying.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Well then - if the seller doesn't want to replace my contactor and just wants to give me my money back, I'm going with Auber (where I should have gone in the first place).

Any idea if this will mount to a DIN rail? From the image I'm guessing no.
-Kevin

 

[mrwizard0]

Those auber contactors are not din mountable. I have them and I ordered some mounts for them from mouser. The product itself is from altech, I am at work right now so I dont have the exact part number but I you want it let me know and I can look it up. I put 2 of the mounts on each contactor an they were only like $0.60 if I rember correctly.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Thanks for the info. If you have a specific part number that'd be clutch. Mouser is a tough website to navigate if you don't know EXACTLY what you're looking for. Did you use something more like this:

or this:

Thanks,
-Kevin

EDIT - Looks like the seller is being a PITA and I'm going to have to resolve it through PayPal... off to Auber to get their contactor. The DIN adapter will be a big help.

 

[mrwizard0]

The mouser part number is 845-CMTB-35

It looks very similar to the first pic that you posted. I ended up using 1/4" 10-24 screws to attach the contactor to it

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Thank you! 3 on the way - for the price, a spare is cheap insurance!

 

[mrwizard0]

No worries I learned a lot from hbt so it's only fair that I return the favor

 

[Jps101]

I am thinking and thinking and want to go this direction. Here's an odd question, perhaps. I see that most use a plug to attach power to the CP, is there a reason NOT to hardwire the box to a cable/line that would then plug into a 30/40/50 amp outlet. I am thinking of a dryer. It is hardwired and you simply plug it in. Thoughts?

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

That's what I did - I figured it's much easier to drill a small 3/4"-1" hole for a liquid tight connector than cutting a big hole for a panel mounted plug, and cheaper too.

Downside - I'm not really sure there is one. I wonder how often the folks with the plug end on their panels actually unplug them, or if they are essentially hard wired. I suppose if your outlet is inconvenient to get to, unplugging at the panel makes sense. My outlet is about 4' away so easy day.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Got the new contactor wired and installed. The safe start interlock worked exactly as described and the new contactor as well. My panel finally has life. Unfortunately, there's something wrong and I'm getting stray voltage all over the place. I need to spend some more time troubleshooting but there's a good chance I'll be throwing my issues up here soon in search of your help. Fingers crossed.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

So for some reason two of my switches weren't working right. Pulled them and tested each operation individually and they seem to work fine, which tells me I have a bad wire somewhere.

Also, with the switch that I use to run my contactors between the SSR and the receptacles - if I take a voltage reading across the switch output (with the switch open) to either Hot A or Hot B I get somewhere around 100 volts. It seems as though my output line is running to neutral through the coil of the contactor. Is it normal to get those kinds of leakage currents through the coil when it's not engaged?

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

So here's a picture to help - if I take a reading from 24 to black (Hot A), with the switch not depressed (23/24 is NO, so no power), I get a voltage reading. If I pull the neutral from the coil of the contactor, I get no voltage reading. Is this normal, or is there a problem with my contactors?

 

[P-J]

So here's a picture to help - if I take a reading from 24 to black (Hot A), with the switch not depressed (23/24 is NO, so no power), I get a voltage reading. If I pull the neutral from the coil of the contactor, I get no voltage reading. Is this normal, or is there a problem with my contactors?

That is normal. Nothing wrong with that.

BTW: Do you have a diagram showing the total wiring plan? The safe start interlock setup is what I'd like to see.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

I copied what Kal did on his website. I will incorporate it into the diagram you made for me. I should have time later today to work on something.