back sweetening without sorbate

[zipmont]

I was told by a pro winemaker once that I could safely back sweeten wine without sorbates by fermenting to bone dryness and waiting an additional month at fermentation temps to kill off yeast. According to him, the common mistake is to put the wine into a cold place after fermentation, which only helps the yeast to survive longer due to a slowing of their metabolism and lowering of their nutrient requirements. He said keeping them at fermentation temps starves them out a lot quicker, though malolactic bacteria would still be present.

Does this sound copacetic? Does anyone else use this method? I am finding the taste of sorbate to be quite offensive in my cysers, and would love to discover a viable alternative. I hope to control malolactic bacteria either by encouraging MLF during bulk aging in my dry cysers, or through the use of sulfites and high pH in my sweet ones. Thanks much -

 

[ACbrewer]

Heat pasturization? can you do that?

I've not heard of the wait a month approach. In some ways it makes sense because the yeast will run out of food and at the right temps, the yeast will die. At other temps, it will go dormant. So it makes sense, but I'd test it.

 

[zipmont]

I have tried heat before, but prefer the taste of wines/meads not exposed to heat, whether musts prior to fermentation or finished wines. I have never stabilized my meads at all and have yet to blow a bottle or even throw a cork. I think this is owing to high gravity, low pH, and moderate use of sulfites. A few of my semi-sweet melomels, cysers, and meads have picked up excessive effervescence after about a year, but not many. Most pick up a desirable level of effervescence slowly over the course of the season.

But lately we are increasingly curious about having some completely still semi-sweets, and would like to avoid pasteurization and sorbates. So we are hoping time and patience might prove to be the trick. Thanks -

 

[Yooper]

Time and patience won't do it. The yeast are dormant when there is nothing to eat, but will get active again when food (sugar) is provided.

There are a couple of ways to sweeten a mead. One is to ferment to dryness, rack and wait until totally clear and not dropping any more less and adding sorbate and campden.

A second way is to feed the mead until the alcohol tolerance is reached, and then feed some more. The issue with that is that you can 18% ABV sweet rocket fuel for a few years.

Waiting a month isn't going to do anything. The yeast are simply dormant.

As an example, when you open a package of yeast that are in the package you buy, that yeast is dormant. It hasn't had any food in ages. But once you add it to your must, it will become active.

 

[bconstant]

A second way is to feed the mead until the alcohol tolerance is reached, and then feed some more. The issue with that is that you can 18% ABV sweet rocket fuel for a few years.

So essentially the only way to backsweeten without stabilizers is to ferment to the maximum tolerable ABV for the yeast used, and then add more honey? I guess the only tricky thing is making sure your records are good and that you've actually hit that limit.

 

[Golddiggie]

I typically make my meads to go to the tolerance of the yeast, while leaving a little sweet behind. It's worked out rather well for me so far. In my first batches (made in November 2010) I formulated two to go to 18%. Due to using crystalized honey, they ended up with some residual sugar (couldn't get an accurate OG). I stabilized (chemically) one part, but left the other to age for a full year (from pitching time). The part that was not stabilized hasn't had any activity since bottling. :rockin:

So, I usually target an OG that will leave the mead above 1.000. Even if it's just a few points above. I'll then test/sample it before going to bottle to see where it's finished. I can then either give it more time, add some more honey/etc. to it to increase the SG (and/or make it sweeter or have more of what I want). But, I normally try to avoid doing that if possible. I'd rather have it finish close to my target/goal. Just means I need to be sure to do what it takes, early on, to get the yeast to do all it can.

BTW, I tend to like my meads a bit on the sweet side. I do plan on making one that will go more dry, but still not below 1.000. I gave one of my 375ml bottles of the oak aged traditional from 2010 to the LHBS owner. Very high regards/comments about it. Well balanced between the alcohol level, residual sweetness, flavors from the honey and the oak addition. Just need to keep doing as good a job of it.

 

[zipmont]

It seems that stability is a matter of degree. Just how stable does it need to be? Is it possible that we stabilize to a fault? Do we damage our wines so that they can be way more stable than they need to be? I have come across the idea, more than once, that only the most resilient yeast of any given yeast colony can survive in the absence of sugar/nutrients, and that, similarly, only the most resilient can survive beyond their supposed alcohol tolerance. So, it seems yeast do experience die off in the presence of etoh and/or lack of nutrition, begging the question of degree. How much die off in how much time? To what degree can recolonization of these few (albeit highly resilient) yeasts occur in the presence of high etoh, high pH, and appropriate use of sulfites? Sterile filtration?

If, historically, my 14% cysers, fermented with cote des blanc yeast, sulfited at around 50 ppm, and pH at around 3.0, have only been getting moderately effervescent after a full year in the bottle, then how will they do if I provide some post-ferment die off time before bottling? How will their stability be impacted by an extra month in the carboy (at fermentation temps) prior to bottling? Two months? Three? What if I throw sterile filtration on top of all this? I don't know. The jury is still out for me. I'll know more soon. I have kept a few semi-sweets still for a full year without providing any die off period, or any filtration. So it would seem that further bench tests are warranted ... Thanks -