Back on the cider horse -- what did I mess up in this batch?

[Basilisk]

Hi everyone! After a hiatus of 2 years or so, I have the cider hankerin' again. I figured I'd do a simple, small batch to get back into it. I did pretty much what I did last time (that had decent results), following this guide: http://www.makehardapplecider.com/

I'm using Musselman's apple cider, which is pasteurized and has Ascorbic acid, but no potassium sorbate (so it should be good to brew with, and also I shouldn't have to worry about wild yeasts, right?). Since I'm doing gallon batches, I'm doing the fermenting in gallon glass Carlo Rossi jugs. I washed each one with very hot water and soap, then put about a capful of bleach in each and let it sit with very hot water, and then rinsed out the bleach many times with hot water.

I did two 1 gallon batches -- one with just brown sugar (0.75 cup of it), and one with just apple juice concentrate (about a quarter of the frozen can). I also added this "yeast nutrient" I bought at my local homebrew shop the last time I did this -- I'm not clear on what it does, should I bother with it? I didn't boil the cider to kill off wild yeasts, because this should have already been done by the pasteurization, right?

For yeast I used half a pack for each gallon, which comes out to 2.5g per gallon. The yeast is Lalvin EC-1118 Wine Yeast, which I read should be fine for cider. I briefly rehydrated the yeast in warm water before adding to the jugs.

For airlocks, I'm using these ones, filled with cheap vodka. The rubber stoppers I have don't fit the glass jugs perfectly (I'm ordering the right size now), so I had to carve one down, and use a black rubber stopper for the other.

Anyway, I pitched it. It started bubbling vigorously by the next morning and continued for several days and then slowed down. I let it sit for a total of 10 days after pitching before planning on transferring it to secondary and tasting it. At this point I stopped, because both batches tasted truly awful.

Initially I thought it was because I let it sit on the lees (or whatever it's called for cider) for too long after fermentation had stopped, but then I read this thread where they argue that it really doesn't matter. Though, they meant for beer -- does it also not really matter for cider?

Either way, any guess at what happened? Maybe just a common infection? Any other advice would be very welcome!

Thank you!

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

Your assumptions are correct about not having to worry about wild yeasts. That cider is pasteurized and won't contain any wild bugs.

My guess is that you basically just need to let it sit and age. I seriously doubt you have any autolysis problems with off flavors after 10-14 days of sitting on the lees. This usually happens after "MONTHS" of sitting in the same vessel.

1118 is a very active yeast and a lot of your apple flavor could have been stripped off during active fermentation. An extended aging period should bring this back around, but it's hard to say with just a description of "awful". I assume it tastes like a cheap white wine with a lot of pucker factor?

I've heard of some issues with a sour flavor associated with ascorbic acid, so that might be an issue as well. This too will probably subside with some aging.

Keep in mind you are using a wine yeast and in my opinion it's harder to make a "young" cider with this. It's just my experience though and some people do it all the time. If you are looking for a young cider, try an ale yeast on your next batch, if not, give it some time to mellow, I bet it comes back around unless you have some sanitary issues.

Another suggestion would be to find some no-rinse sanitizer from your LHBS. I try and avoid soaps and bleach as they can leave an aftertaste if you aren't perfect with rinsing. Use hot water and a carboy brush for stubborn bits then just swirl some star san (or similar) to sanitize.

 

[Newsman]

You might try back sweetening a bit with some frozen concentrated apple juice, say a can per jug? That may kick off your yeast again, so assuming you don't want it to dry all the way out again, you can either use potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfate or pasteurize if you want "sparkly" cider.

 

[SoontoCidery]

I am sorry to hear about the awful taste! Would you be able to describe this taste with more detail. As Pickled Pepper mentioned this could be due to the fact that your yeast in particular has a tendency to ferment quickly and very dry which could cause the cider to really lose taste.

A awful taste could also be the onset of a number of bacterial infections, not from the pasteurized cider but from contaminants that could have entered in other ways, though it sounds like you did your homework on sanitizing. If it tastes vinegar-y it is probably acetobacteria- which means you should probably just throw the batch or ferment it into apple cider vinegar.

There is much to be said on the variations that can be caused by leaving you cider on its lees but it typically isn't awful after just 10 days. Leaving it on it's lees most often can cause a more nutty taste to the cider!

 

[Basilisk]

Pickled_Pepper, thank you for the response. To be more specific, it smelled and tasted a little vinegar-y. Not just like cheap wine, legitimately bad. I've already poured it out, and I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure letting it sit longer would've just made it more terrible.

I doubt it's the ascorbic acid because I used the same exact cider last time, and it came out fine. I've ordered some Nottingham Ale yeast -- this should be better, right? I've also ordered some Star San... something I'm wondering about it, though: how can it sanitize the bad stuff in the carboy but not hurt my yeast?

Yeah, I've now read that "to secondary rack or not" thread and it seems like that probably wasn't my problem. I started one gallon batch with the Lalvin yeast, just to see if maybe I can get it to work, and I'm going to start another gallon as soon as the Nottingham and Star San arrive.

Thank you for the responses! Any other advice is welcome.

 

[Newsman]

Basilisk... you sanitize your carboy just before you put in the cider and other ingredients. The small amount of Star San left wont' affect your yeast as it will be highly diluted. Or you can sanitized your carboy and then turn it upside down on a carboy drier and not worry about it as virtually nothing is going to get into an upside down carboy.

 

[Jkalotai]

You mentioned 2 batches. Did both taste the same? You're using almost the identical recipe I use though I use 6 oz of AJC per gallon. After 10 days in primary fermentation it's harsh. I rack to a clean, sanitized bottle to sit for 10-21 days then bottle. At this point it's quite nice, dry. I add 2 tsp of white sugar per 750 ml bottle to carbonate and 1/2 tsp Splenda to get a little sweetness. This also brings out the apple flavor.

 

[Basilisk]

Damn. Well, as I mentioned before, I already ditched them because I was pretty sure at the time they were nasty and infected, and I wanted to start the next batch... but now I kinda wish I had kept one to see if it somehow got better with age. Both batches did basically taste the same though.